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Class 5 only

ErikIrvine

Well-Known Member
Classes are made up of similar cars, not similar finish times, why? Because it is fun to compete against similar cars. Same suspension, same handling characteristics, same speeds in the rough, smooth, etc. Stuff you can compare and talk about before and after the race, what tires they run and why, this and that. I know what my car needs to be competitive with the other 5 cars. Adding ecotechs and a-arms wiIl complicate it, that is probably why I am against it. Is there anybody who owns a legit 5 car on here that is pro-combining, or is it only guys with non-standard 5 cars that want to combine? Not being sarcastic, just asking.
 

Wendell #527

Well-Known Member
Classes are made up of similar cars, not similar finish times, why? Because it is fun to compete against similar cars. Same suspension, same handling characteristics, same speeds in the rough, smooth, etc. Stuff you can compare and talk about before and after the race, what tires they run and why, this and that. I know what my car needs to be competitive with the other 5 cars. Adding ecotechs and a-arms wiIl complicate it, that is probably why I am against it. Is there anybody who owns a legit 5 car on here that is pro-combining, or is it only guys with non-standard 5 cars that want to combine? Not being sarcastic, just asking.
Reading through this thread, for the most part it's the guys with non-standard cars that want to combine. Also Erik I agree completely.
 

dhjeepgeek

Well-Known Member
First, Change is Bad. second Zac , Jim race against the 3000 cars in the V2R, Beat them all, then they whined and I believe he gave back the trophy. And as Wendell said, whats next, Just leave the class alone, go race 3000 if you want to run an egotec. then you can have A arms too. Starting another class sucks too. lower car count in other classes. I know the fuel cost and engine cost is a main factor in the argument. We got I think 6 races on the type 4 and bus box before the motor gracefully stopped running in the garage after the MINT.
 

PRECEPTS

Well-Known Member
I have been reading this thread with interest and for what it is worth I love the class the way it is, however we have no problem competing against other cars with Ecotec engines, as long as they have 105" wheelbase. In our program I have never been concerned about having the most horsepower. The fastest I have ever been in a 5 car was at Parker with a 2332 type I, we only switched to the big type IV because the bigger motor was better in the soft stuff . According to FAT's dyno we usually don't have as much HP as many of our competition. What made our program successful was the package. The car just works, it's the suspension and the setup not the HP that made our car what it is.
Regarding V2R last year, we checked with several other 3000 teams to see what the consenses was and all but one of the teams we contacted thought that combining the classes was a good idea. We then called Casey and got his approval. When Mike, Wendy and Charlie Guy won the class in our 5 car the poop hit the fan so we decided to give the purse money to Chaplain Steve Hanson and the trophies to next 3000 finisher. My 2 cents.
 

Zac Reish

Well-Known Member
I agree with eric, its fun to race against similar cars, I agree that adding a arms to the dynamic complicates things, I agree with wendell that the non standard cars want to combine. However you are missing the big picture and the main problem with class 5

LOW CAR COUNTS

LITTLE COMPETITION

How much more would nascar suck if there were only 5 teams racing?

Imagine this for a second....... Say 5 open swallowed their pride and we all went out there and raced for the same money for 2 years. I guarantee a few things would and could happen. GUARANTEE!!!
1. Interest to class 5 would increase
2. More die hard 5 open racers would come out of the wood works just to show 3000 that we're abunch of forward thinking pussies
and smoke us
3. 5 open cars would be the choice vehicle for the class and be the favorite to win the prize money.
4. the value of 5 open cars would increase and new ones would be built
5. more old 5 opens would be converted to 3000 for the guys who wanted to compete on a shoestring budget (me)
Or
6. 5 open gets dominated by 3000 and new technology
7. they go back to where they started which is where we are right now

But we'll never know will we.
 

rusco

Well-Known Member
I agree with eric, its fun to race against similar cars, I agree that adding a arms to the dynamic complicates things, I agree with wendell that the non standard cars want to combine. However you are missing the big picture and the main problem with class 5

LOW CAR COUNTS

LITTLE COMPETITION

How much more would nascar suck if there were only 5 teams racing?

Imagine this for a second....... Say 5 open swallowed their pride and we all went out there and raced for the same money for 2 years. I guarantee a few things would and could happen. GUARANTEE!!!
1. Interest to class 5 would increase
2. More die hard 5 open racers would come out of the wood works just to show 3000 that we're abunch of forward thinking pussies
and smoke us
3. 5 open cars would be the choice vehicle for the class and be the favorite to win the prize money.
4. the value of 5 open cars would increase and new ones would be built
5. more old 5 opens would be converted to 3000 for the guys who wanted to compete on a shoestring budget (me)
Or
6. 5 open gets dominated by 3000 and new technology
7. they go back to where they started which is where we are right now

But we'll never know will we.

Well put. I think we all agree that class 5 is still a good thing and the concensus is no change is needed. However, is another engine option a bad thing if entries #'s go up?

Here is a question? What motor /size / builder do you run? And how much is it to maintain?
 

steve0we

Well-Known Member
Ill start
type4
just got quoted 5k to put it back together again.

I love how people that dont actually race the class or have pre-runners with limited motors are hard core about keeping it all VW. step up and buy a 15k type 4 big motor and let me know how you feel....
 

VIGILANTE

Member
In my opinion and my opinion only: if you let an "underporwered" ecotec run in class 5, you wouldn't have to go and try to find competition with combining class 3000 and class 5. With the rule change and with that rule change only, it would bring smaller budget race teams to the track. You can "what if" all day about other rules having to change like, A arms, or 105inch wheel base changes but thats not the case some teams are asking about.
 

ksmith

Well-Known Member
If class 5 ever goes to a water cooled class then I won't be racing in it. Maybe somebody will want to buy my 5 car and convert it to whatever the fad of the day is, but for me, I'd be done with it. You know, A-arm front ends need less maintenance than beam, too. Might as well allow A arms in class 5, too. Also the body, most 5 car bodies aren't really VW bodies and they cost alot so might as well not require them, too. Don't you guys see what you're trying to kill?
It already IS a water cooled class. Guess you better sell the car:) Joking
Here is the SCORE rules on engines for class 5 Unlimited. Any 4 cylinder air or water cooled VW based engine. Dispalcement open. I think the big question is can we run the ford or gm 4 cylinder sealed engine just like the class 10's or 3000's. I like the idea of a trial run. Two years see how it goes. Also, I don't believe any of us want to ditch the beam or the body. I love beam cars. Fun to drive and work well with a 105" WB
Class 5U.jpg
 

Attachments

rusco

Well-Known Member
Ill start
type4
just got quoted 5k to put it back together again.

I love how people that dont actually race the class or have pre-runners with limited motors are hard core about keeping it all VW. step up and buy a 15k type 4 big motor and let me know how you feel....

I put about 12K+combined into a type 1 engine over 3 races. ( Engine issues in all 3) Engine set up and support has been my issue. Being catagorized as a "budget" racer and living 800 miles from the hot-bed of off road racing (support), Yes an ecotech sounds very enticing. I am gun-shy of putting another 5-7k into another type1! I'd prefer to stay VW and am intrigued by Jim Andersons 7k type 4. Would love to have a few engine builders PM me with quotes.

FYI Luvian Voekler ran the H2O rabbit motor in his new beetle 5 car and won a SCORE champ with this package a few years back.
 

Erik Irvine

Well-Known Member
I have a 9:1 pump gas 2,400 cc (stock stroke 103.5mm bore) type 4. I spent 2k on a rebuild last year other than that it isn't anymore $$$ than a type 1. I baby it, and get smoked by zacs ecotech all day long
 

JRV 511

Well-Known Member
i agree with eric, its fun to race against similar cars, i agree that adding a arms to the dynamic complicates things, i agree with wendell that the non standard cars want to combine. However you are missing the big picture and the main problem with class 5

low car counts

little competition

how much more would nascar suck if there were only 5 teams racing?

Imagine this for a second....... Say 5 open swallowed their pride and we all went out there and raced for the same money for 2 years. I guarantee a few things would and could happen. Guarantee!!!
1. Interest to class 5 would increase
2. More die hard 5 open racers would come out of the wood works just to show 3000 that we're abunch of forward thinking pussies
and smoke us
3. 5 open cars would be the choice vehicle for the class and be the favorite to win the prize money.
4. The value of 5 open cars would increase and new ones would be built
5. More old 5 opens would be converted to 3000 for the guys who wanted to compete on a shoestring budget (me)
or
6. 5 open gets dominated by 3000 and new technology
7. They go back to where they started which is where we are right now

but we'll never know will we.
nope !!!!!
 

JRV 511

Well-Known Member
I don't know of any other 5 cars that do 117. I've heard the ECOtecs work pretty well in the 5Us as well. Can anybody comment on this?

There are plenty of OTHER factors that contribute to a winning car as well. At some point the extra HP becomes a non issue in class 5U. In my opinion.

Do you ever plan on racing in 5U again, what would make you come back out? (You were the first person we met in the class when we started)
Well you never know , that 5 car is just sitting in the shop looking all lonely and sad , I have been racing the ten car but now thats gone, so you realy never know
 

rusco

Well-Known Member
Well you never know , that 5 car is just sitting in the shop looking all lonely and sad , I have been racing the ten car but now thats gone, so you realy never know
JRV 511 (Varshay?) If I'm not mistaken you own a pretty bad azz 5 car, with from what I have heard it has a potent fuel injected 3litre type 4. Having been involved in the coalition, in your opinion what would you suggest to get this class going again? Also, having run class 10 what is your opinion of allowing sealed eco techs in them? With 30 or so entries at Parker this year, seems to have generated a ton of interest.
 

JRV 511

Well-Known Member
CID__0820071826.jpgvarshay1.jpg!cid__IMG00005.jpg!cid__0302081609.jpg!cid__0302081610.jpg
JRV 511 (Varshay?) If I'm not mistaken you own a pretty bad azz 5 car, with from what I have heard it has a potent fuel injected 3litre type 4. Having been involved in the coalition, in your opinion what would you suggest to get this class going again? Also, having run class 10 what is your opinion of allowing sealed eco techs in them? With 30 or so entries at Parker this year, seems to have generated a ton of interest.
Well to be honest , 10-20 teams are going to have to agree to race with an organization , AND STICK WITH IT !!! the coalition was a great thing , cool website , Title sponsor ,the whole 9 yards . we had a meeting at Kartek and picked our race schedule. The schedule included just about every sanctioning body there was with a total of seven races ,and a $5000.00 purse from the title sponsor , who will remain nameless because he stiffed me on the purse(most of you know who he is) and it was working, we had like 16 cars at the first or second race , but guys started going back to their home sanctioning bodies if they did not perform well , or if they won a race stayed with that sanctioning body , at that time we had contacted like 35 five car owners and 19 were at the meeting , by the end of the season there were two cars left , myself and eric earnest .

With all this being said , to get this going again , Pick one sanctioning body that class 5 is going to race , get the commitment of several race teams , make sure those teams stick to the program , and the rest of the 5 cars will have no choice but to jump on board , if you want to let the ecotec and subaru guys race too , thats cool , work the rules out with that sanctioning body and go for it.

*just a note the website still exsists and Matt Mead still has control of it* and he does a great job : www.class5coalition.com

Seems I might have to pull the big 5 car out of the shop after all. I'll through up a few pictures for those of you that don't remember the car
 

hallracing

Well-Known Member
I say leave class 5 alone, I also agree with Wendell. We raced Snore last year and had an average of 5 cars per race but this year it seems everyone is just so spread out with all the orgs. We have been racing with HDRA this year and its only been 2 of us Richard Garrivito and myself. I think Steve from AMS should try and unite class 5. There are alot of 5 cars out there we just need to unite. Thats my 2 cents.
 

JRV 511

Well-Known Member
I say leave class 5 alone, I also agree with Wendell. We raced Snore last year and had an average of 5 cars per race but this year it seems everyone is just so spread out with all the orgs. We have been racing with HDRA this year and its only been 2 of us Richard Garrivito and myself. I think Steve from AMS should try and unite class 5. There are alot of 5 cars out there we just need to unite. Thats my 2 cents.
I am willing to help ,I dont know what we still have but I will see if I can drag up the old list and contact info for the 5 guys , If I dont have it maybe Eric or Matt have the info , If someone wants to fire up the coalition again I will get you set up with the controler of the site and any info you might need.
 

SKM Built

Well-Known Member
I agree with Hall too. Lets try and unite the class. If we can get the owners together that would be great. I think we should take a vote on this engine issue and the vote should come from all teams involved 5u ,3000, and anyone that has raced their cars. No race no vote on this topic
 
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