CLASS 7s max. engine size

[Big_Rich]

Well lets get this dicussion going here. Idea is to limit 7S to 3.0 liter stock block and stock head.

So what says everyone.

Rich

www.vorra.com

 

[DMSRACE]

Sounds like you want an earfull on this...where do you hold most of your races????? That would be a good vacation race..

Kevin

Racer

To live life half throttle would be a waste....

 

[Kritter]

It seems that if you keep the limit at 3 liter then you should leave it open as to head choice to level up the playground, but if you bump up to 4.3 then a limit on heads, block, compression, etc...should be made.

Kris
"Buy American before it's too late..."

 

[JCA]

Rich I thought I sent you a copy of a motor rule that was brought about by a class meeting and discussions on the 7s portion of this board. Along with the copy of the rule was a copy of the list of who it was mailed to as well as a list of who replied and what they decided on. If you (VORRA) did not get a copy please pm me and let me know you didnt get it and give me a valid address. I dont understand why you didnt get it but I would be more than willing to resend another

J.C. Andrews
Andrews Racing
www.andrewsracing.com

 

[Big_Rich]

I received the letter, I also had a talk with Bill Savage. I'm just trying to gather all the information I can. I will more than likely stick with what ever score does, seeing we are trying to keep everything the same, so there will be more places for everyone to run, if they wish.
Rich

www.vorra.com

 

[Wayne_Nosala]

Welcome to the board Rich,
I have never been to a VORRA race,but it pleases me to see a promoter seek
input & opinions from racers
Thanks
Wayne Nosala

Nosala.com

 

[billymanfroy]

Here's the deal: When SCORE (and then VORRA) drops to 3.0L, then every 7s truck that does not want to change their motor should be moved to 7 open. This gives them a place to race and still be competitive with trucks as similar to theirs as humanly possible. I can understand resisting the change, especially when it's downsizing. But rules changes affect everyone at one time or another. We were forced out of 7s for fiberglass doors on a stock 2.3L/C4 truck with leafs and stock beams! All the guys at BITD used our "7200 Unlimited" truck as an example of what the stock suspension is supposed to look like during impound after the Tonopah 300.

Come race with us in VORRA without changing a thing!!! We'd love to have you, and we'd love to make the class even bigger with racers from all over.

Billy Manfroy
#7217

New can of worms: How do we enforce these rules, anyway???

 

[curt]

If you decided to do this motor limitation, you really shouldn't make any limitations on the head since its too hard to enforce with what we have for technical capabilities. Limiting the displacement is somewhat easier to check without a motor teardown and if you limit heads and other internals you'd have to be an expert on each motor combination to enforce the rule. I'd like to see the motor/chassis/body combination rule back(if its gone), you shouldn't be able to grab a motor that was never in a truck and stab it in and go racing. Since we only have 2 makes of trucks racing I'm wondering if we shouldn't just make an allowable base block ie 2.4, 2.7, 3.0 or whatever motors are all you can run, if we limit the starting block and head combinations you can only punch them out so far and there are know limitations to each.

No rule should be made unless it can be enforced with the technology and expertise available at the track or pretty soon enforcement becomes lax and then all the rules get bent/broken.

All the limited classes should have a technical inspection with a known infraction response ie warning, points deduct, suspension of racing etc...

Things that can be easily checked and should be done on a random basis with a known points or laps deduct are:
Motors- Bubble check for displacement
A-Arms- Configuration, lengths, and pivot points
I-Beams and Radius arms- Configuration, lengths, pivot points, angles(not bent)
Leafs- Length, pivot points(not sure if pivot points are in the rules)
Track Width
Wheelbase
Any of the above should be checkable on each vehicle in just a few minutes(except bubble I'm not sure) and should be done before the race to give a team an opportunity to fix before. It's crap to let a guy run with you when you know he's got something wrong just so you can protest him after the race to improve your position.

I'm not militant on the rules, I think we should start with the SCORE book since its a good building base, then if necessary, modify it to what we feel necessary to maintain a competetive level between makes. I've long been a supporter or changing the rules to limit travel, weight, displacement, track width, and wheelbase as being the major equalizers. With this system it doesn't matter what you bring, only how you drive, build and maintain your truck.

Just thinking out loud...Curt

 

[J_Dog]

I'm pretty new to the desert racing scene, just racing Class 7S with VORRA for the last part of 2002. I've been spectating for about 15 years and have seen numerous changes in desert racing. It sure would be nice to have this engine rule decided so we could decide what to do for 2003. We were looking to maybe buy a 4.0, but have been holding off due to the controversy. Currently, we run a mildy modified Ford 2.8 in our Ranger. My opinion is that we do run a stock type class and should use stock type parts. The engine should have to have been offered in that specific vehicle/chassis at any given time (i.e. Rangers could use 2.3, 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, 4.0). I'm not sure what Toyota, or others offered. I am pretty sure this is what the current SCORE rule states. If the engine was NEVER offered in that specific chassis you should NOT be able to use it. I can remember the days of factory backed teams (Rough Riders, etc.), more sponsors, more coverage, etc. I know it won't change back to that over night, but I sure think it would help if the rules followed the available parts that the current trucks on the sales lots have. The truck companies will only come back if we run what they are selling on the car lots, otherwise it does not make sense to sponsor something they don't sell or market. If you want to run an engine out of a different chassis and can afford it, step up to the plate and get into an unlimited class. I agreed to the recently proposed motor rule that JCA and others worked on and feel that SCORE should follow the wish of the actual racers who run in that specific class, unless they can provide some reasonable explanation for their decision. I am definitely opposed to making more classes, as this just lowers the number of entries in the class. Too few entries equals not much payback. I can't speak for everyone, but I like getting some money back for the racing effort. The whole thing with Class 7, 7S, Stock mini, getting split up even more gets to be ridiculous. It is my opinion, that this is the exact thing that made the factory teams back out. If SCORE is thinking of splitting 7S into two classes, I would have to disagree. I would rather see the 3.0 liter rule and have those over that step up to 7 Open. I know desert races are not spectator friendly as well, but that's another story. Let's get this thing behind us so we can go racing!! Just my $.02

P.S. I agree with Billy Manfroy that rule changes do effect everyone at some point. Also, I agree with Curt Hayos that some of these real technical rules are hard to enforce out in the desert, they're difficult to do as well. It seems absurd to make a guy teardown a motor, but it may be a necessary evil to combat cheating . If you do get caught breaking the rules, pay the price!!! You get DQ'd and points deducted. There has to be some responsibility for your actions to keep everyone honest.

Sorry for the long post, just venting. As always, if you have any questions or comments let me know.

Jeff Matlock
CODE 3 Motorsports
Class 7s Ford Ranger - VORRA

 

[martininsocal]

Jeff- what you bring up is important. This was preciesely one of the reasons VORRA killed of the 1600 class. There was no enforcement of the rules, so people started bending them, and rather than live by the book, the promoter decided to say just race and have fun. The funnest part of racing is being able to compete on a level playing field, and that didn't happen with no rules enforcement. I have seen this happen at other racing venues and it invariably drives racers away. If Vorra is not interested in teching after a race, WHY have rules that need enforcing? How about something like this? Any motor available from the Chassis manufacturer, maximum of 6 cylinders? That is what will happen. I can't wait for someone to want to run a V-8 Dakota in SCORE with Dodge saying they want to Sponsor the series...

If your gonna go, go BIG

 

[JasonHutter]

Hey Martin, I would have to get out my rule book. But in SCORE they say it has to be a mini truck for 7 or 7s, and the Dodge Dakota is a mid-size truck isn't it?

Jason

 

[mgobaja]

Yes, the Dakota is a mid-size truck. So is a Tundra while were at it.

 

[Curtis Guise]

Actually I believe the T-100 is the mid size and the Tundra is a full size.

 

[IDRA_CRB]

Walker did the Dakota V-8 back when Riverside was still a venue.

Crashed it hard!


Reese

 

[billymanfroy]

Errr, Uhhh,

I thought 7 (S and Open) was for mini AND mid-sized pickups. (I don't have a current rule book to verify, sorry)

Billy

 

[JasonHutter]

I will be home in a couple of hours, I will get out the last rule book SCORE put out.

Jason

 

[JasonHutter]

Here is the rule for 7s, I was wrong.

CLASS 7S
OPEN PRODUCTION - Mini Pickups
Vehicles built from a 2 wheel or 4 wheel drive mini or mid-sized pickup having a maximum stock wheelbase of 125". Vehicle must have been series produced in quantities of at least 5000 units within a 12 month period and be readily available to the general public in the U.S.A. Vehicle must be marketed as mini or mid-sized pickups.

I suppose for the time being, the Dodges are kept out by the maxumum of 6 cyl part of the engine rule.

Jason