On Topic Class 8 Truck Owners, Why-When-Where

[Evans Motorsports]

There are several Class 8 truck owners who are building trucks right now! What are your plans? I wanted to probe some of the reasons why thoughts who have trucks are not racing their trucks. Briefly state your reasons and possible remedies that could bring you back to racing Class 8. Racing Cost, Rules Changes, Entry fees, Contingency, Sponsors, Payback, Economy. At one time Danny at Locations Racing had a E-Mail list of over 120 Class 8 Truck owners. He would e-mail the owners before every BITD and SNORE event to encourage Class 8 trucks to come out and race. It seamed to work as we had a regular showing of 8 to as many as 16 trucks show up for the events.

 

[bajaboy7]

I dont want to speak for the owners but we moved up to TT because there was no other consistent competition in the class. Because there was few trucks Casey (RIP) would only start us in the back and pounding bumpers passing cars got old.

 

[Josh 8]

Good idea. Good post. Hopefully something breaks loose.

Disposable money is the main issue. For the last 2 years I have “other” responsibilities to attended to so the funding has not been their. It’s looking like that’s coming to an end and I will be able to make a couple of smaller races a year for 2020.

My plan with the guys I race with is to race the record race in June. After that I will pick and choose.

 

[Fordguy1]

We will be racing the MORE series for 2020 in Unlimited.

I have been keeping an eye on Class 8 entries and they have been very limited. I think there were 2 trucks entered at the 400, and I haven't seen much in BITD this year. I would like to run BITD in 2021, but without any other trucks it doesn't make much sense for us.

It would be great if we could get a group of trucks to run even just a couple of races.

That List sounds like a great idea, if someone wants to revive that, I would love to be on it.

 

[Evans Motorsports]

I understand, starting near the back with BITD. They used the rule for starting positions, the first 2 finishers times in each class dictated start positions for the next race. With 7200 and class 10 having entries of 15 to 28, and class 8 only had 5-10 it just seamed like we were always 150 to 160 starters back. Increasing the possibility to have 2 good finishers to the class. Then having 5500 to 6500 lb trucks coming through the 7200 and 10 car slower cars just pissed a lot of racers off. Very dangerous, dusty driving conditions, making almost impossible to get 2 good finishes with a small group of class 8 trucks.

 

[scottm]

As for low entries, many people just don't like rules. People have been screwed by constantly changing rules (ask Mark Newhan) and cheated out of championships when Score refused to enforce their own rules (ask Nick Vanderwey). So that's why 1450 is so big - anything goes. Heck the top 5 Snore 1450 trucks are faster than the best cl8's of 15 years ago.

Mine is getting a rebuild from hitting a tree last year. It is going together better than it was, will be score CL8 legal when done (2 inch cage), and will have working doors for 1450. I can hardly wait to get back to Snore, but also looking forward to the Parker 425, BWDC, and other Bidt events. I have run unlimited truck in Whiplash and AZOP too. I'm out for probably another year though, unless my boss will give me 3 months paid leave..

 

[michael.gonzalez]

What keeps a class 8 from racing 1450/1400?

 

[Evans Motorsports]

What keeps a class 8 from racing 1450/1400?

Well that would be the a great option for class 8 running 1450/1400pro. The reason is Most Class 8 Trucks DO NOT HAVE WORKING DOORS. Required for 1450/1400. However most all legal class 8 Have full frames weighing 2600 to 3200 lbs depending on the frame! Now that they 1400 Pro they should let the 8 trucks race there. My thoughts as a option. I haven't seen more then 4 trucks run the 1400 pro class, while it sounded like 20 guys originally wanted the new 1400 pro class. The 1450 guys wanted to run all the laps so they made this class and the faster 1450 were going move up to it and spread out the 65 trucks that enter 1450 into 2 groups in SNORE. Not sure if it's the same in MORE. But I think it's a good spot for the 8s go. But most 1450/1400 guys think 8s are to fast to run with them! I hear a few of the 1400 pro guys have complain about not having the total number of trucks that originally committed to running the new class show up! Now BITD has opened up class 8 to 1450 or 1400 guys who have back/half there trucks, and this also allows SNORE's heavy metal class to run in BITD class 8.

 

[Bert is my name]

So???. Build it to run. Or petition to start another class.

 

[EOR1488]

Man Class 8 is amazing and we loved racing it back in the early 2000s. Obvious reasons why the truck counts went down for sure.

Running 1450 has been nice. a few less rules makes it easier to get big travel numbers and whatever kind of power etc you can afford. Over the years our truck has gone from 33" tires, 3.5" bypass and 170 HP to 37" Tire 4.0" bypass and 550HP. A few less rules allows for a little more freedom then class 8 was and the entries show it. I still think there is v6 trucks(A few that are damn fast) all the way up to tube chassis Trophy Trucks with bodies racing and it dosent really matter I think everyone has fun.
It might make more since to try and get some of the class 8 into 1450 or 1450 pro then start another class. Not sure how some of the rules should work out but to me more trucks the better. As far as speed our current truck is way faster then my class 8 truck of a decade or so ago. Alot of the trucks are stupid fast. The problem in the class has alway been reliability but that has improved a ton over the past couple years. Either way we race SNORE and more trucks are always welcome!

 

[Josh 8]

As for low entries, many people just don't like rules. People have been screwed by constantly changing rules (ask Mark Newhan) and cheated out of championships when Score refused to enforce their own rules (ask Nick Vanderwey). So that's why 1450 is so big - anything goes. Heck the top 5 Snore 1450 trucks are faster than the best cl8's of 15 years ago.

Mine is getting a rebuild from hitting a tree last year. It is going together better than it was, will be score CL8 legal when done (2 inch cage), and will have working doors for 1450. I can hardly wait to get back to Snore, but also looking forward to the Parker 425, BWDC, and other Bidt events. I have run unlimited truck in Whiplash and AZOP too. I'm out for probably another year though, unless my boss will give me 3 months paid leave..

Man Class 8 is amazing and we loved racing it back in the early 2000s. Obvious reasons why the truck counts went down for sure.

Running 1450 has been nice. a few less rules makes it easier to get big travel numbers and whatever kind of power etc you can afford. Over the years our truck has gone from 33" tires, 3.5" bypass and 170 HP to 37" Tire 4.0" bypass and 550HP. A few less rules allows for a little more freedom then class 8 was and the entries show it. I still think there is v6 trucks(A few that are damn fast) all the way up to tube chassis Trophy Trucks with bodies racing and it dosent really matter I think everyone has fun.
It might make more since to try and get some of the class 8 into 1450 or 1450 pro then start another class. Not sure how some of the rules should work out but to me more trucks the better. As far as speed our current truck is way faster then my class 8 truck of a decade or so ago. Alot of the trucks are stupid fast. The problem in the class has alway been reliability but that has improved a ton over the past couple years. Either way we race SNORE and more trucks are always welcome!

Totally with you on that ^^^^^

Mine is 8 legal with swing doors.


As for the rest of these super fast jaw jackers, forget you!!! As for you Scott, it is on!!!! I will meet you at a snore race. Young gun, you better show too!

 

[scottm]

Ha now we're talking Josh! Be there or be a prius driving buttf... um, I mean a soy bo.. ah, interior decorator? I don't know what we can say anymore..

 

[BajaFand]

A few years ago at BWDC Steve Olliges brought his 8 truck out and put out a big purse for the class from Team Ford to try to attract some 8 trucks out to come back and race. If I remember right no more than 4-5 trucks showed up including Steve. So that was a short and pretty inexpensive race with a nice bonus and the turn out was super low. I don’t race but I love class 8, always been my favorite class of vehicle but since that race I don’t see much of a future unless all these trucks pop back out of the woodwork for some odd reason.

 

[Evans Motorsports]

Totally with you on that ^^^^^

Mine is 8 legal with swing doors.


As for the rest of these super fast jaw jackers, forget you!!! As for you Scott, it is on!!!! I will meet you at a snore race. Young gun, you better show too!

Not sure how old you are but if your calling me the young gun, me at 59 Thank You! If not I have a few young guns to load the truck up! However after having my sons and friends drive the trucks I built, This one's mine to race.I still may share it a little. But You're On!

 

[Evans Motorsports]

We are also considering several options. Had a discussion the other day about scabbing a cab on the truck to make it have working doors. However it may be less work talking to SNORE about allowing the trucks into 1400 Pro. At one time fiber glass bodies without working doors were allowed in 1450. Some have said it was because they crashed and were too damaged to have the cab put back. Well that how most class 8s without working doors got there fiberglass bodies. However re-skinning is very common place now from what I'm being told.

 

[Josh 8]

Sorry. ERO1488 use to have the screen name “young gun” years ago. I am stuck in the past. Btw, I am 48. Your the “super fast jaw jacker” just to be clear. Lol. Either way, challenge accepted has been accepted so, great!

As for 1450, they have to keep the doors. That the big rule with them that keeps trophy trucks out. The doors to a 1450 is the same as frames to a 8 truck. If either one is taken away, the identity is lost.

So here is where I am at. I have my base motor 460 on a run stand. It’s built to 535. .03 over at 4.390 bore and 4.4 stroke. Lotta cam, trick flow a460 heads. 10.25 compression. Hope fully it will run well on pump gas. But I have a problem. I have been chasing a oiling issue in the engine for the last 3 builds! This began about 3 years ago. As the engine revs it loses oil pressure. I know 460 have a goofy front plug situation so I am going to take the front cover and timing chain out Monday and check that to be sure I got the plugs in correct. In this build I even went with the Kaase oil pump. I starts with a 100 psi of oil but as is warms it he pressure drops to about 50 at 5000 rpm. And it’s not the low end. I had the block machined. Crank turned and hardened. Mains have .003” and rods are .0015” clearance.

So before I show to any races I have to get this fixed.

On a different note, I switched transmissions to the Reid case 400 with all the wazzo internals. That swap is done. So when the engine is finally figured out all that is needed to be done is install and fire and drive.

 

[J Burleson]

Josh 8, its a 460, that thing will live with 5psi oil pressure LOL But seriously, it probably would!

 

[Bert is my name]

Try restricting oil to the top end. Also check cam bearing and lifter clearances. Lots of areas to drop pressure there. Another thing I have seen is lifter bores that are out of square to the cam. Causes some weird things to happen. The only fix without replacing the block is to Bush the lifter bores.

 

[scottm]

Josh, is it a high volume oil pump? They only exist because in the 60's-70's hot rodders experimented with real loose rod and main bearing clearances, resulting in low oil pressure at idle. With normal bearing clearances of 1.5-2.5 thousanths, hv pumps just cause tremendous and unnecessary load on the distributor drive gear at higher rpm. Search the engine section for "high volume" and you will see it has come up before. In your case maybe the internal relief valve is popping off at high rpm, causing oil to recirculate and cavitate inside the pump. Or possibly the pump is moving so much oil the pickup tube becomes a restriction. In any case I think HV pumps are a waste, maybe the biggest scam in engine building for the last 40 years.

 

[Josh 8]

Yeah, Scott I agree with you a 100%. No this is not a hv pump. It’s billed as a high pressure pump. Look up John Kaase oil pump. This guy is the 460 guru. It’s a cool pump as it has two inlets to feed oil. On top and bottom of the rotor/gear. It has improved the pressure about 20 psi. The old pick up was 5/8 id and the inlet port of all the pumps are 3/4. So I made a new pick it tube that is 7/8 id to make sure this was not the choke point. The screened area is twice the size too. And the pick up is 1/2 an inch off the bottom of the pan. With all this I figured I would have it licked it and it’s still has low on pressure. I want it over 60 psi.

Here is a current pic.

And buy the way, the windage tray has not helped a single bit.

So the history on this this began when I lost the drive line after my big wreck at NORRA in 16. That was a cheapy short block that I used in that race when at the last minute this engine dropped a valve 10 bays before NORRA. Here the engine 10 day before NORRA 16. Btw, Remember the 5 month build is did to get there! I start building October of 15. That was stupid crazy.

I had the heads fixed in a week. See below.

And slammed a short block together with 3 days to go till NORRA. See below. The wrencher is mike Backholden. Super famous off road fabricator with tons of wins and championships. No joke. The other guy is Abel Velazco. Tons of 1/1600 wins and championships.

Well this engine ran great. We used the old oil pump that came in this current engine block. It’s the one the truck came with. Ran great and good oil pressure.

Well then about 100 miles out of la Paz running 8th overall I ran out of talent and did this at about 105.

I then put it all back together. Took it out to couger buttes. I soft peddled the throttle for about 5 minutes warming the truck up. The first time I romped it and grabbed third at about 80 on a smooth dirt this happened.

The drive line came out with such a hard hit it broke the trans case and engine block. The engine got slammed so hard I found the oil pump in the bottom of the oil pan. Since then I have had oil pump issues. So to be clear the engine that was in it at the time the drive line spit out was lost. That was the same engine that I used in the NORRA race. The engine block I bought the truck with is the one I am back to and it’s the one that dropped the valve 10 days before NORRA. This engine block has been to dugans twice since the valve issue and looks good. So all the issues began with the loss of the original oil pump. At this point I just don’t know. I am going to check the front plugs tomorrow. Maybe I brain farted and don’t have the thin plug on the right side gallery.

The run stand sure comes in handy.

If is can’t figure it out I am going to go to a external pump.