I have to disagree with you about eliminating any class
that has so many cars around,
For instance, lets say i wanted to get into desert racing, so
i go out & buy a nine car for say 5 to 10 grand, then promoters
decide to kill the class (just because some selfish spectator is bored with them)
id say i would be a pretty pissed entry level racer
I was out at the recent MORE race & saw a great race between 3 nine cars
All three came though bumper to bumper for 4 of 5 laps,
Myself being a pit person/spectator/occational racer, very much enjoyed
Scott, i copied this from your profile.... "Watching Desert-racing, and anything with 4 wheels"
Maybe you should rephrase "Watching Desert-racing, and anything with 4 wheels
With the exception of nine cars"
Anyway, im just kidding around here & i dont mean to directly attack you on this
Just my 2CCs worth
Hate to see any class eliminated but combining classes (eliminate a class) to boost entries does make sense. Stock truck (class 1200 at MDR) has had low, 0-2 entries, at each race and could easily be run in class 1400 or 1450, so that would be my choice if it had to happen. Scott - eliminating class 9 is crazy, yea they are slow and ugly (J.K. - sorry Tim - ) but they get some of the biggest fields at alot of the races and most often have the tighestest races, also as Wayne said they are a great starter class. No matter what class 11 can never be touched - they are just way too cool and true desert warriors!!!
Wayne - class 9 does have single and two seaters running together but they have weight restrictions to even up the playing field. Same as class 10 for single and 2 seaters they have air-cooled and water-cooled engine specs to even the field, seems to work out fairly even.
Desert races are put on for the racers, not the spectators. Spectators can watch for free. Without cars, you don't have a race. If you start eliminating classes, the spectators will sit in the desert for a long time without seeing a car go by. What fun would that be? If you are going out to the desert to party, go to the county park. Maybe the promoters can make the laps 2 miles long so the spectators can see the few vehicles entered go by every once in a while. As we will probably see from the responses to this post, the people that race will want to see more cars at the races, not fewer. If a promoter cannot draw enough cars to a venue to at least pay expenses, the sport will dry up and go away.
That's enough of my whinning. What makes desert racing such a great sport is the fact that almost anyone can participate because there are classes that fit most everyones pocket book. I raced in class 10 years ago, but was unable to continue due to the expense of trying to stay competitive. I am now building a 9 car because: 1. I can afford it, & 2. It's some of the closest most competitive desert racing out there today. The people racing Class 9 are some of the most motivated, creative, and competitive folks out there. Racing is racing, no matter what you're driving.
I disagree with combining 7s and 7 open. The two classes are completely different classes, except that you have to start with a compact vehicle. The money spent on the 7 open trucks to be competative is way out of my league, and I am having a blast in 7s where my budget fits a little better. There are different classes out there for a reason, not for the spectators, but for the racers. What is wrong with a little variety in racing? With the Stock vehicles, are you saying they should put the big hp V-8s against the 4cyl vehicles? I understand the smaller trucks are lighter, but it wouldn't make enough of a difference to call it even. Just my 2 cents.
i agree with jason about 7-7s class, they are different from motor to suspension. if you wanted to combine any class it should be 10 and 1 since they arent that much differentall across the board. suspension,chassis,speed,etc.-------just kidding , calm down.thier are different classes for a reason mainly racers budjets,not spectators budgets.if it gets to confusing for the spectator then they need to break down and buy a race program. as technology improves so will the classes of vehicles e.g. classes 10 and 12.
i have to admit class 9 does blow to whatch but im sure its alot of fun to drive it, i wouldnt like to see any class be eliminated, how much money have basically determines which class you will run in. then as you get better and pull in sponsors or get a raise or refinance your house you can move up to a faster class. putting classes together sucks because i know if i had a 7 truck and had to run against 7 open i would get spanked no matter how good of a driver iam.......
That's true maybe i should change that. If I was to get into a low budget form of racing, i'd go 5/1600, and not 9. But in a point of example. Laughlin- who comes to watch 9 cars???? The 9 car teams, I don't think other teams are hanging around to check out whats going on.....
scott-having raced class 9 and 11, i don't think you could eliminate either one. 11 is the roots. 9 is an excellent starter class as is 5-1600. i have often asked about getting rid of or combining classes. i would get rid of 5 open since it is a dieing breed(unfortunately) and would like to see a different strategy for classes with big bucks. something like 1= any vehicle over 3500cc's, 2= 2000cc's to 3499, 3= less than 2000cc's. you take care of 1,10, 12,etc...get rid of 3 and 7. make 7s the mini truck class for modified vehicles and the 3's can run there or in stock mini. the 7 opens can run with the 8's, just work with the weights a little. as for 9 and 5-1600, you have to keep them just due to numbers, but qhat they should have done was a spec buggy class with 100" wheelbase and the 5-1600 suspension. would have been much faster, i believe in the long run cheaper to run. and they could be run shortcourse and desert...think of a combined series for that! trophy trucks should just include 8's and let them open up wheel travel rules. the real future for trucks will be in a spec class like protruck if they open up the supply side a bit. they should look at something similiar for mini's, but limit it to 4 cylinders to help keep costs down. there is other stuff, but you guys can chew on this for now
Hold on a min. If you combine classes, the vehicles still run the same speeds and go past the spectator the same way, so what advantage are you guys thinking of???? We have different classes for the racers. If they were combined a lot less people would be racing because they could not afford it, Things are already in place to get the lower entry classes motivated. Someone mentioned combining 7 and 7s. Two totally different vehicles and 7s normally have a lot higher numbers entering. I am all for it as long as the 7 trucks have to comply with 7s rules. Kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it? Leave the classes alone and if anything keep coming up with more classes to involve more people. After all as I said before it does not matter what class they are in or what number they have they will go by the spectator the same way balls out and as fast as they can with the only factors being physical limitations, mechanical limitations, quality of prep and driver abilities (which is not listed last by mistake)
And no matter what remember "A bad day of racing is better than a lifetime as a spectator"
Martin, I like your idea about a spec buggy. 100" WB, IRS, Link Pin. Well now it's virtually a 1/2-1600. Loose the wheel base thing and it is. I guess part of the "problem" is that the current infrastructure (owners) is large and not overly funded to accomodate change. Ideally, I would guess that most of us who own Class 9 or even 5-1600 cars would own 1/2-1600 if we could afford it (I would). Obviously they're damn fast (comparatively speaking). When I see 1600 cars finishing in the top 5 O/A (MDR) it gets one's attention.
One aspect that I think gets overlooked/undermentioned is driver skill. I don't believe that I could just get into Sheble's or Kisner's car and beat them in it. Same with Brian Logan, Brad Inch, or the Steele's. (Just to name a few of the current drivers I think are really good.) A good driver can make a mediocre car look good. A great driver can make a good car look amazing.
Eliminate classes? No. Time will sort that out. Class 6; anyone remember? Sadly, the 5 opens seem to be going that way. What's the point of eliminating classes? Entries are entries. Get off your butt and buy/build a car.....whatever class you can afford.
Here's my take on class Eliminations. For the future of the sport to make it more spectator friendly, we need approx. 9 classes (besides bikes). If this sport is to go anywhere, it needs to be simplified and easier to produce for TV. This is how I think it should be done.
TT- keep the same
Class 1- same (even truggies)
Class 2- single/2 seat 1600 buggies (1/2 1600)
Class 3- Unlimited mini trucks (class 7)
Class 4- Unlimited full size (class 8)
Class 5- 1650cc single/2 seat buggies (class 10)
Class 6- Mini stock (7s)
Class 7- Full Stock (8s)
Class 8- Pro Truck
This would go into effect in 3 years to give people a chance to make the appropriate changes.
*Basically, 5/1600, class 11 and challenger drivers should move to class 2. I know it's a big step for some people but up-keep on a 5/1600 and challenger can be very pricey. I've talked to a couple drivers who have made the switch and they said they should have done it years ago.
*Class 5 should move to class 1 since they are class 1's to begin with but limited to 105" wheelbase.
*Class 12 should move to class 5 for obvious reasons.
Before you start tearing me up, this is my opinion and I want to see the sport grow. I hated watching SCORE races on TV and not being able to see the rest of the classes. If there is only 8 or 9 classes, it would be easier to make a TV show. Of course, there is room for improvement in what I have put down above. Be nice everyone......
I dont think that class elimination is the place to go. I think it needs to be organization elimination. Remember when there were 400 car and truck entries at races. My dad says he remembers when there were 35 trucks signed up for class 8 alone. Do you remember at the Mint when they used to have a pill draw for starting positions in the entire race. you could have a 9 car start first off of the line and have a 1 unlimited start 383. You had no idea where you were at in regards to your class untill the race was over. Now that sounds cool. That many entries will never be achieved again unless some of theses organizations go bye bye. right now we have SCORE, BITD, CODE, Fud, Vorra, Bore, More, Whiplash, MDR, SNORE, and countless short course organizations that are also taking away from desert racing entries. Promoters need to run races that are both short course and desert racing like in the old days. Remember when there were only 2 organizations, SCORE/HDRA and SNORE. Thats when off road was at its prime and when entries were at its highest. I am not saying that these 2 organizations are the 2 that need to stay by any means, but a few of these need to dwindle away.