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Class10_???

Zac Reish

Well-Known Member
A 2.5 liter ecotec NA is not going to make a class 10 any faster. I'm enjoying reading this thread BTW. i think technical rally roads suit UTV's perfectly. What was the finishing comparison between 10 and UTV at this years mint? I know all the favorites in 10 took themselves out of the race. That course is both rough, fast and technical. Anyone want to waste 10 minutes for my reading pleasure?
 

Slippery P

Well-Known Member
Zac,
I agree a 2.5L isn’t going to make a 10 any faster, but a 2.4L or 2.5L with a turbo definitely will. My point with the 2.5 was that as the current factory spec power plant has become obsolete and new options are available BITD continues to drag their feet, yet they want the class to stay the same as a spec class while now allowing the current 2.4L to be rebuilt (read open a can of worms) It doesnt make any sense.
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
Class 10 is currently stagnant as far as engines go solely due to BITD rules. SCORE has jumped on board with allowing the new 2.5L but BITD refuses. In my opinion until this changes the class will see little progression. We have plenty of engine packages developed at the moment 2.4L DI Turbo, 2.5L DI N/A, 2.5L DI turbo, 1.4L DI turbo etc. Make class 10 a turbo 4cyl. Class and see how fast the cars progress.
Couldn't agree more!
 
I would say last years Mint would be a better comparison as both the 10’s and UTV’s raced in the same heat. This year the UTV’s raced the day before and the 10’s raced with all the unlimiteds. (Def a different course)

2019 results
1st 10 5:52:11.449
1st UTV 6:24:17.313
 

Slippery P

Well-Known Member
It would be fairly easy to mandate a stock 2.5L, spec a turbo, and spec a boost setting. With the Life Racing ECU’s that 90% of the field already runs it would be very easy to lock In A boost setting and datalog it. Anyone who overboosts gets penalized, it’s a common practice in road racing.
 

Class10DAN

Well-Known Member
hang on i have an idea, have the golf carts star LOOOOOOOOOONNNNGGG after the 10 cars have left the line
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
Class 10 is currently stagnant as far as engines go solely due to BITD rules. SCORE has jumped on board with allowing the new 2.5L but BITD refuses. In my opinion until this changes the class will see little progression. We have plenty of engine packages developed at the moment 2.4L DI Turbo, 2.5L DI N/A, 2.5L DI turbo, 1.4L DI turbo etc. Make class 10 a turbo 4cyl. Class and see how fast the cars progress.
is that Any 4cyl?, any size turbo, no restricter plate,? That would be cool, toss a BMW 1200hp monster f1 type eng. in and GO!!!
 

JerryB

Well-Known Member
So 2 things seem pretty apparent, based on comments from those in respective classes:

1) class 10 is becoming stagnant, by no fault of their own.
2) golf carts are progressing, however, rate of progression is directly correlated to manufacturer innovation.

There have been a number of threads here over the years discussing rule changes, coming up with a consistent rule book for the same class with different promoters, and everyone recognizing that some classes have advantages and disadvantages at particular courses (rough/smooth/technical).

Back to RH original question, does anyone actually believe a UTV will ultimately pass up a 10 car, heads up, consistently? I personally do not. But..... When does a SXS no longer be a SXS? When does it become a mass produced/manufacturer developed 10 car essentially?
 

Class10DAN

Well-Known Member
So 2 things seem pretty apparent, based on comments from those in respective classes:

1) class 10 is becoming stagnant, by no fault of their own.
2) golf carts are progressing, however, rate of progression is directly correlated to manufacturer innovation.

There have been a number of threads here over the years discussing rule changes, coming up with a consistent rule book for the same class with different promoters, and everyone recognizing that some classes have advantages and disadvantages at particular courses (rough/smooth/technical).

Back to RH original question, does anyone actually believe a UTV will ultimately pass up a 10 car, heads up, consistently? I personally do not. But..... When does a SXS no longer be a SXS? When does it become a mass produced/manufacturer developed 10 car essentially?
I'm gonna pull the trigger on this and give my thought, yes i do think that at one point if UTV's become advanced enough they can surpass class 10 cars no problem. but with all this talk of the race ready diablo thingy that i have no idea about. that time may be coming closer then expected, BUT with the introduction of class 10 cars being allowed to run a 2.5 i dont think the utv's will be a "serious" threat for another year or two. but that doesn't mean that something will happen... if you guys are concerned that you are getting passed by golf carts then e-mail the people who make the rules know and perhaps "NURF" the golf carts for good.

dont $h*t on me

Daniel Barta
 

ht racing

Well-Known Member
So 2 things seem pretty apparent, based on comments from those in respective classes:

1) class 10 is becoming stagnant, by no fault of their own.
2) golf carts are progressing, however, rate of progression is directly correlated to manufacturer innovation.

There have been a number of threads here over the years discussing rule changes, coming up with a consistent rule book for the same class with different promoters, and everyone recognizing that some classes have advantages and disadvantages at particular courses (rough/smooth/technical).

Back to RH original question, does anyone actually believe a UTV will ultimately pass up a 10 car, heads up, consistently? I personally do not. But..... When does a SXS no longer be a SXS? When does it become a mass produced/manufacturer developed 10 car essentially?
its no longer a sxs when its built exactly the same as a 10 car and are 300 hp and then say oh there faster than a 10 car. the rules change as the manufacture changes the car from the factory then the org has to follow. its not like alumi craft can build a 10 car bigger with a v6 with 400hp and then say hey guys this is a class 10 now. but polaris and canam can do it. its just not the same dam thing.
 

JerryB

Well-Known Member
its no longer a sxs when its built exactly the same as a 10 car and are 300 hp and then say oh there faster than a 10 car. the rules change as the manufacture changes the car from the factory then the org has to follow. its not like alumi craft can build a 10 car bigger with a v6 with 400hp and then say hey guys this is a class 10 now. but polaris and canam can do it. its just not the same dam thing.
I agree 100% HT. There could come a point in time where a SXS is really no longer a SXS. If we went back in class/car evolution history someone probably had this same discussion about class 1 and 10, or any other buggy platform currently or previously raced. I mentioned previously the Speed UTV that's "allegedly" going to see delivery in November. If it's delivered as touted by RG, I think it will be a game changer in the UTV market. But, is it truly still a UTV? That's a whole other discussion. I personally think not. I personally think it's starting to go beyond what a UTV, at heart, is. I believe it's creating a new class of car. I say this based on currently available UTV's on the market from manufactures. If someone had enough time on their hands, they could argue Ivan's single seat TT was nothing more than a quad with body panels! Let me be clear, I'm not throwing out a preemptive protest of being beat by a faster car, simply stating at 300hp, a significantly wider track, etc... I don't know that it's still a UTV, it's out of the scope at some point. I'm guessing many will disagree and say it is, maybe my X3 will fall the wayside with the rhino next year? Time will tell
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
its no longer a sxs when its built exactly the same as a 10 car and are 300 hp and then say oh there faster than a 10 car. the rules change as the manufacture changes the car from the factory then the org has to follow. its not like alumi craft can build a 10 car bigger with a v6 with 400hp and then say hey guys this is a class 10 now. but polaris and canam can do it. its just not the same dam thing.
So now we have come full circle to understanding the OP. None of this is an attack on class 10, it has always been a great class and personally my favorite memories racing are my class 10 days. Class 10 will always adapt. Question is...Will it be before or after it sees declining numbers?

I personally have never considered racing a UTV. I wouldn't even own a UTV, until the turbo model came out just 4 years ago. As pointed out, the progression by manufacturers is what determines the class, and what direction it is heading. The progression is happening fast, and is currently picking up steam. I have considered getting back into class 10, but frankly I'm not interested in spending that kind of money to race the class competitively, which is the same reason my class one rarely sees the daylight.

For the first time, I am considering racing a UTV, probably not next year, but maybe the following year. And Yes, I do think it will be considerably less than racing a class 10.

BTW...a UTV will always be a UTV, if it is a manufactured vehicle. Just like a TT is still a TT and a class 10 is still class 10, even thought the vehicals have completely changed over the past 30 years.
 

ht racing

Well-Known Member
Honestly, just trying to have a discussion here. I am probably as neutral and objective as anyone here. There are a lot of people posting that are fixated on the past and IMO not looking into the future.

I have owned three class 10 cars spanning a period of about 10 years. I raced a Jimco class 10 (Fortin, Honda package), for several years during the early to mid 2000's, before building a class one. I have owned two class ones cars, currently have a class one and a 1600 car that I just finished a full rebuild on. I bought the 1600 after getting a chance to race a leg in the Baja 500 and having a great time with some great memories (Thanks to Pavolka Racing). I have also raced a 6100 at Parker (Thanks to Accurate Automotive). Since pictures are worth a thousand words, I'll throw some below.

I overalled Barstow racing against Letner, in a 10 car, my first time there. So yes, I have been around the block and have raced a few rough races or two. I always felt the rough, tight, technical separated the boys from the men and it is where I could always make time.

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Do I make the cut to be part of the discussion ;)
its all old stuff not current class 10 car so .......... no
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
2 - alumicraft class 10 cars 2016 and a 2018 and a class 1 / 6200 alumicraft won parker 425 this year.
So you have a lot of stock in class 10. Now I understand your passion! When you are all in, you become a cheerleader and sometimes don't see the world changing around you. Kinda of reminds me of Kodak, when the I-phone came out. Such a dump idea to put a camera in a phone. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Class10DAN

Well-Known Member
So you have a lot of stock in class 10. Now I understand your passion! When you are all in, you become a cheerleader and sometimes don't see the world changing around you. Kinda of reminds me of Kodak, when the I-phone came out. Such a dump idea to put a camera in a phone. 🤷‍♂️
your profile picture was taken on your phone.....
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member

Class10DAN

Well-Known Member
i kinda went off topic but you get the point lmao, just cause im 17 doesn't mean i like old stuff, i think vintage stuff i so much cooler then new stuff, thats why i still prefer film cameras ;)
 
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