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Coils & Heavy Buckets VS. Coilovers

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
I asked this in another thread but think it may be better as its own thread. Thanks to all that give input!!

Can anyone give a "good" description of the capablilities of a coilover system vs. a heavy duty adjustable coil bucket with the same 2.5" shock on a Ford 4WD TTB or I Beam setup? Assume, since this is true in my case, that everything else would be the same in the suspension. By this I mean same limiting straps, built TTB, since it's 4WD, and same radius arms. The only differnece is the means used to support the weight of the vehicle IE. springs.

Khris



<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by sirhk100 on 09/21/01 01:19 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
The only real diff. between the two set ups is on road and slow speed ride. Both will work. If anyone out there thinks they can make a single spring set up work like a dual coil-over then I am sure most guys in 7S would like to hear from you.

Tony
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
Alright man, I'm confused. Your first line makes it sound like theirs not a whole lot of difference but then your 2nd line makes it sound like it's a big difference.
Khris
 

Mike_HKmtrsprts

Well-Known Member
dual rate coilovers are nice cuz they are progressive unlike a normal wound coil spring the only way you can come close to the same ride as a coilover would be to have a custom coil spring wound for the exact weight of your truck and run a bypass shock so you can make it progressive, I have heard alot about this set and I still wounder how well it would work compared to a coilover.

You must be Fast cuz I was HAULIN ASS when I passed you...
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
I'm planning on putting what ever I decide on the front of my 4WD '92 Exploder. This will not be a race truck or anything and is going to be used for fun. I'm not looking to go out and outjump the TT or bomb WFO through the biggest shiet out there. I just want something that I can cruise at a moderate speed around the local deserts and not have to worry too much about it not driving home straight. Occasional air would be great but it's not something that I'll be going out to look for. With this description would you guys suggest I spend the extra $600 on dual rate coilovers or save that and put it into fenders, bumpers, or my rearend? For the rear I'm looking to get a race leaf pack made and run a set of Reservoirs in the rear with a 2 link to control spring wrap on the SOA.

Thanks for all the advice!!! I'm taking it all in and trying to make the most informed decision the first time so that I don't have to do it again later.

Khris
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
If you are just going to cruz then you will be real happy with one 2.5 shock and a nice set of coils. I wouldn't even waste my time or money on extended TTB. You can get 12" out of the stock set up and you will be more than happy based on how you said your going to drive.

I guess in my first post I should have been more clear. You will never get a single spring to work like a dual rate set up. At least not for the same price. You will either have to soft of a ride for the desert or you will have to harsh of a ride for the street. You can come close with a single coil and a by-pass shock put you are going to spend the same money if not more. It all depends on how trick you want it and if you build it yourself and the use of used parts vs new. But for what you seem to want then I would go with the set up I listed at the beging of this post.

These are just my opions. So listen to what everyone has to say and make your choice. Its your wallet....

Tony
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
That's exactly why I'm on here is to pick everyone's brain. I'd love to go to one of these meets or cleanups and maybe get rides in different setups to see for myself how different setups work. The setup that I have my mind set on right now is about $2650 out the door for the standard set up. If I go coilover its' gonna run me about $3200 so it's only a $600 difference. I just want to make sure that I'll be happy with what I get saving $600 and not kick myself 6 months from now when I want something more just cause I saved $600. That's not that much, maybe an extra month of saving.
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
yes please help, i'm in the same boat as sirhk100 even the same vehicle...except mine's a 93. -sirhk100 thanks for ptting up all these useful threads, it's helped me a ton.........

"Brakes just slow you down"
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Ain't he great about that? I think I'm going to go ahead and do coilovers on my '93 X though.

David - No one of consequence.
 

Flea

Well-Known Member
here i posted this on the other thread before i saw this thread.

maybe i can help if i tell you about my coilbucket suspension. it uses F350 coils which are very long and ride great on the street. but i have an F150 so i guess that would not work for the explorer cuz it is to heavy of a spring rate, but for a bronco? it alowwed the coil to drop instead of being held in by j-clips. this allowed for 16 inches of travel. i had stock bent beams, two bilstein 11 inch travel shocks on each side. it had the heimed radius arms from camburg. i was very happy with it. i sold the whole suspension to my friend and he loves it. here is the reason i am putting on coilovers...it bothers me so much how the coil arcs through its suspension travel. it is noisy (not on the street). i want more travel. i dont like the fact of extending the I beam after where it mounts to the coil. unless you use those camburg beams with the billet end, but they're heavier than hell.

and guaranteed after you buy the coilbucket kit you'll still envy the trucks with coilovers. i tried to tell myself i could live without them but.......$$$$$$$......

GOD BLESS AMERICA! and hopefully my poor truck too.
 

scott

Well-Known Member
What are you looking to do ??? Are you on a budget??? I have a buddy with a ranger with coil-buckets and 2 fox shocks 2.0, per side and the thing does pretty damn good.
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
Flea,
Thanks for the 1st hand experience!! that's the info I'm looking for. I also can relate that I would imagine once I get the bucket setup in I'll still be envious of the coilover trucks so I guess I should just do it the first time. I also know what you're saying about extending the beams outside of the coil mounts. I could see a lot of stress being applied there and it's not a place you want to be cutting and modifying. Perry extends the TTB beams up close to the pivot points.

I'm looking to build my 4WD Exploder into a capable prerunner. I'm not going to be racing it or entering jumping comps. but I do intend on blasting around Ocotillo Wells and Glamis with it. As for a budget, I'll spend what I need to but I don't have financial backing or anything and the money's coming out of my pocket so I'm shopping for the best deal. Right now the best deal I've found is from Perry Mcneil. He claims a 6" widened TTB system with extended radius arms. That hole setup is $2000 whether I run buckets or coil overs. The only difference is the price of the shocks which is only about $500 extra for coil overs. I'm thinking that it will be worth the extra $500 for coil overs but I'm still a while out from doing it. If everything goes as planned I'll be ready to do it around Jan/Feb.
 

Flea

Well-Known Member
your welcome,

do you know how much travel that his kit provides and how long of coilovers he uses? just curious. another plus of coilovers is it look a lot cleaner. i think it is worth your money.

GOD BLESS AMERICA! and hopefully my poor truck too.
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Khris,

You must like throwing money away. You do not need wider beams. You can only get so much drop out of the left beam do to the drive line. You can get 14" out of the stock beams. I would get extended radius arms.You don't need more than that for what you are doing. I have stock beams/extended radius arms on a 2wd ranger and I am pushing 15" of travel. It works awesome except I need to mod the steering.

Yes you can dump a ton of money and get 18" of travel but for what you said you want to do with the explorer it would be a waste. If you really must spend the money give me 2 grand and I will set up the front for you. The only thing else you will need is the coil-overs. Come out to the clean up on Oct. 20th and I will take you for a ride and you can see what you think.

Tony
 

Greg

Well-Known Member
The biggest advantage of a coil-over vs. just a big coil is the free length vs. spring rate. You just cant make a light spring-rate coil that will compress 8-10 inches without bending in half. Even if you keep putting more leverage (motion ratio) you cant get the same spring rate and travel without binding the coil. The second (and much less important) is the dual-rate part.
Sirhk, I recently had the pleasure of riding in a 4x ranger that had 2 2"bilstiens and a coil bucket up front and a custom leaf pack ans 2.5 x 16" shock in back and I was in aww. That truck worked soo good, I was actually pissed cause it worked soo good and it was so simple. That truck was built using mostly used parts and was a total budget vehicle (although his fab work is awsome) and it just goes to show that proper set-up is more important than $$ spent on parts.

Greg
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
Tigger

I may take you up on that ride at the clean up. Here's a question though. On 2 wheel drives you can just get your IBeams bent to accomidate for the lift without using drop down brackets. Can you do that with the TTB setup? I didn't think you could just bend them to make the alignment correctable once lifted. I thought you either had to use drop brackets (which I have right now and they are MASSIVE) or cut and turn it. I want to get away from the dropped brackets to prevent bending the brackets or cracking the frame which I've heard is common due to the dropped brackets. To get rid of the dropped brackets I think they'll have to cut the TTB and rework it anyways so I might as well have them lengthen it too at the same time. Isn't it true that for every 1" you go out on a side you get an extra 1/2" up and 1/2" down travel out of it. As for throughing away money. I'd rather spend a little more now and be satisfied with the performance for years to come then to have to pay the same amount again to have everything reworked cause a year from now I want more or something.
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
I would like to see a 4x4 ranger/ explorer with 20" of travel that still can use the 4wd... Not possible as far as I know. I know of an f150 4wd that has 18" and is pushing the limits of the u joints on the axles.

As for alignment, you can get up to 4 1/2 degree adjusters. And even if you wanted to cut and move the upper ball joint mount it would be less than 2 grand. You can run mild drop brakets and be fine. I would go that route. I am running drop brackets with stock beams. I have had no trobles so far. Keep in mind that unless you are planning to modify the steering you can only get at the most 14" of travel. I do have more but it is way scary and I won't let anyone else drive it. I come close to rolling all the time on the street. You will be stoked with a good 12" of travel and you can get that without spending big bucks. Quality is much more important than quantity.... Keep that in mind.

Come on out to the clean up.. It is a good time and I will take you out for a ride and try and answer all your ?'s.

Tony
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
When you say modified steering are you talking a swingset style like Dan's from Baja Shop? You know, now that I think about it he said that one side has 2" less travel then the other because of limitations on either the drive shaft or the axles. I wish you could see Perry's son's Explorer. He's got a white one with coilovers up front on his 6" widened setup and a wierd link system that uses a track bar setup to center the rearend with coilovers. It looks REAL functional but not nearly as artistic as the camburg kit. Then again it's a quarter of the cost. I'll mark down the clean up date. I've never done one with you guys, I'm assuming it's a IP thing or is it more a Race-Dezert thing. Where and when, actually nevermind, I'll go to the Enviro, page and find the details. What's the haps with this though, is it all clean up? Should I just bring my Explorer or is it worth bringing my bike too. I'm guessing it's up in the high desert since that seems to be where most the people on this page go. I've only been up to Johnson/Yucca/Lucern area. I ride mostly around Borrego, Ocotillo, Superstition, and Glamis. What area are you from?

Okay, nevermind, I can't find the info on the clean up. Where is it? I looked in the Save the Desert area and the General area, I even looked in the IP page but didn't find jack. Maybe I'm blind. Either fill me in or let me know where to look.

Khris<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by sirhk100 on 09/24/01 01:43 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Khris,

The clean up is being put on by C.O.R.D.R. . You can get all the details at www.cordr.com</A> or stop by our booth at the Expo... The IP gang I am sure will be out in force at the clean up. Right Jen!!!! :) And sure bring your bike. It is an open OHV area and are efforts are to keep it that way. Plan on camping out over night because the party at Slash X after will go be going off like it did last year!!



Tony
 
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