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Combining classes

Freedogger

Well-Known Member
With the discussions lately about "New engine options" and "New age entry level class" it is apparent that there is some interest in taking advantage of modern technology to help make racing a little more affordable.

But...........

While reading these threads there is one common theme (which I would assume everyone agrees with) that we don't need any new classes.

I probably don't need to explain, but new classes dilute the competition and payback.

So...... I ask. What classes could we combine now to help bump up the competition and payback?

5 unlimited and 3000?

3000 and 10?

12 and 5 unlimited?

??? and ???

Truck classes?
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
"Unlimited" Truck-Buggy (C1/TT/6100) 1 rule 35-37" max tire and let them all run together

I can hear it now...
 

Freedogger

Well-Known Member
"Unlimited" Truck-Buggy (C1/TT/6100) 1 rule 35-37" max tire and let them all run together

I can hear it now...
I completely agree, but I think the sport as a whole didn't catch it in time and too many people would have to "re-tool" their equipment now. The increase in tire size has negatively effected our sport and public land stewardship on many levels....... but that's a topic for another day.
 

DanMcMillin

Crane Motorsports
"Unlimited" Truck-Buggy (C1/TT/6100) 1 rule 35-37" max tire and let them all run together

I can hear it now...
Zaiden, Pistol, Mark Weyhrich, PAB, and Louis Chamberlain commenting in 3,2,1.....LOL
 

DanMcMillin

Crane Motorsports
I completely agree, but I think the sport as a whole didn't catch it in time and too many people would have to "re-tool" their equipment now. The increase in tire size has negatively effected our sport and public land stewardship on many levels....... but that's a topic for another day.
I agree on capping tire sizes. I think 40" maximum for all classes would be good since most of the teams now run a 39" or a 40". Although a larger tire size smaller holes, it snowballs into making everything on the truck bigger and heavier, adds more unsprung weight and rotating mass and, has you said, damages our environment. Tread pattern development and different compounds are beginning to be more important, as what we see in the new KR2 which is an incredible tire. Even though BFG has a 42", not many people run them anyways. The hard part is I'm Not sure how to approach tire companies and tell them to stop developing new product that translates into the public markets....? Just thinking out loud, but in general I agree, just not sure how to execute it fairly and timely. Good topic, Bryan. I also like your idea of a 1600 hybrid class.
 

retroblazer

Well-Known Member
The max tire should be a production based tire, in a size range that multiple manufacturers offer.
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
Staying on topic: A 35-37" max rule should allow the buggys to compete on a level field with the trucks and allow 3 classes to combine into 1 "Unlimited Class" and a have more diverse field of competitors and competitive vehicles...

Plus it saves the courses for the smaller classes that don't matter...
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
Six four wheeled vehicle classes

...factory vehicle with 4 cylinder motor, limited modifications, similar to class 11 but open to other makes/models
...4 cylinder air-cooled class, max 2000CC no a-arms
...3 cylinder, max 1200cc, unlimited suspension/chassis
...4 cylinder spec motor, unlimited suspension/chassis (personally I think this should be a spec V6 class)
...8 cylinder spec motor, unlimited suspension/chassis
....Unlimited, max 39" tire
 

snoreracer

Well-Known Member
Staying on topic: A 35-37" max rule should allow the buggys to compete on a level field with the trucks and allow 3 classes to combine into 1 "Unlimited Class" and a have more diverse field of competitors and competitive vehicles...

Plus it saves the courses for the smaller classes that don't matter...
Unless a tire rule is put into place it will be harder and harder to get places to race . The BLM is now looking into damage caused by high HP large vehicles and are looking at capping entry's because of damage . I think a 35" rule would be a great idea.
 

DanMcMillin

Crane Motorsports
Unless a tire rule is put into place it will be harder and harder to get places to race . The BLM is now looking into damage caused by high HP large vehicles and are looking at capping entry's because of damage . I think a 35" rule would be a great idea.
Staying "ON TOPIC."

Kenny, do you think 35" tire cap should be for all classes?

I think combing classes, capping entries, and also adding licensing would be better than a small tire cap. All of these potential solutions however diminish the spirit of off road racing as will be argued by some.

IMO, I think adding better safety solutions and standards, as well as using better technology for accident prevention maybe could be a better approach in making our sport more appealing to the public and elected officials? I don't sit in BLM meetings as I know you do, but just thinking of another angle to solving the problem?
 

Freedogger

Well-Known Member
Six four wheeled vehicle classes

...factory vehicle with 4 cylinder motor, limited modifications, similar to class 11 but open to other makes/models
...4 cylinder air-cooled class, max 2000CC no a-arms
...3 cylinder, max 1200cc, unlimited suspension/chassis
...4 cylinder spec motor, unlimited suspension/chassis (personally I think this should be a spec V6 class)
...8 cylinder spec motor, unlimited suspension/chassis
....Unlimited, max 39" tire
In a perfect world this would be the hot ticket, but there's WAY too many agendas for this to happen.


Staying "ON TOPIC."

Kenny, do you think 35" tire cap should be for all classes?

I think combing classes, capping entries, and also adding licensing would be better than a small tire cap. All of these potential solutions however diminish the spirit of off road racing as will be argued by some.

IMO, I think adding better safety solutions and standards, as well as using better technology for accident prevention maybe could be a better approach in making our sport more appealing to the public and elected officials? I don't sit in BLM meetings as I know you do, but just thinking of another angle to solving the problem?
Dan, I think my Dads tire cap comment relating to the BLM was specifically directed towards land degradation issues, not safety.
 

Freedogger

Well-Known Member
Question for those smarter and more in tune with the classes.....

Now that 5 unlimited is able to use an Eco-tec, other than front suspension (trailing arms/A-arms), what are the differences between 5 unlimited and 3000.
 

M5 Motorsports

Well-Known Member
I approached SCORE and BITD 2 years ago about combining class 8 which might have 3 to 4 trucks at a big race, Pro Truck, and Heavy Metal. If you look at the times they are pretty equal. You would have a class with 6 to 10 or more at the bigger races. Neither org would do it even though there was some support behind the idea. Guys like racing with 2 other vehicles in their class I guess.
 

DanMcMillin

Crane Motorsports
In a perfect world this would be the hot ticket, but there's WAY too many agendas for this to happen.




Dan, I think my Dads tire cap comment relating to the BLM was specifically directed towards land degradation issues, not safety.
Bryan, I knew it wasn't safety oriented but environmentally aimed, but overall I agree a tire cap would help with land degradation. I was just thinking of possibly another approach that might "trickle" down to all classes and make the sport more like-able, but I know BLM only cares about the land, obviously.
 

Bdub 1020

Well-Known Member
Bryan your dad was right. I argued 10 years ago with him that TT's bring attention and public support to off road racing. He said be careful what you ask for. We have every enviro club and BLM trying to say we tear up the land and do not stay on designated trails trying to close OUR deserts down to competitive events. I'm starting to think we need to combine many classes and possibly have promoters run Class 1 and TTs on different dates and different courses than the lower classes. I know this sucks but is it a reality because of land degradation and safety they use as ammo on us.
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
Combining classes would help the the prize money in a class, but its not going to change land degradation. If you have 3 class 3000 and 3 class 5's, you still have 6 cars on the course no matter what you call them. As far as Entry Caps, doesn't the BLM already do that?

If Land Degradation is the real issue then maybe Org's like Snore & More should drop the Unlimited Truck & Buggy classes, and mandate a 35 inch tire rule for all other classes. Both Snore & More dont have huge entries in the Unlimited classes on a regular basis. Those are the only two classes where a tire rule would would hurt. Leave the TT's and class 1's for BITD & Score where they mostly are anyways. This would not only reduce the erosion due to big HP and big tires, but it would also make racing safer as slower, smaller & lighter class vehicles would not be on the course at the same time as these faster vehicles. You might also find finishing rates go up a bit as the limited cars are not having to beat their way threw a chewed up course caused by 700-800 HP & 39 inch tires.

Its funny to hear the TT & class 1 guys at the finish line talk about how tough the race was. They get the best course! Its the limited classes like 5/16, 7's, 16, 9 & 11 that are racing the rough course and are waiting in the log jam caused by some class 7 or 8 truck.
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
So what is more damaging, 30 to 40 TTS maybe with class 1 or big buggy entries and large entries overall of yesterday with a couple hundred buggies or more? Racing TT and class one on a different time Why? I could see if there were hundreds of them but thats not even a fantasy entry number. A TT and class 1 race only is going to be a losing proposition rite from the get go considering entry fees are what most promoters work with
 

Freedogger

Well-Known Member
I think you guys are taking this thread in another direction than originally intended.

This thread wasn't created to explore ways to help solve land degradation problems.

I started this thread to explore classes that could be combined to help increase entries, competition and payback.
 
What about an off road version of "Bracket" racing, where time handicapping let various vehicles race each other?
 
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