Complexity vs Simplicity

jon coleman

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There was a drivers meeting?
didnt you go??, they talked about how the course was tuff& was gonna eat a lot of enginesūüí•(please, forgive me....
 

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dan200

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I would be willing to bet that even Rob himself would tell you that he would not have a chance against the AWD trucks if they held up to the finish line.
He actually said something like this after driving Lukes,
 
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mig29

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I think the man may have learned to protect his machinery from Rod Hall & Ivan Stewart.......
The hare & the tortoise!!

Not that any of them are slow...lol
"90% of the game [ baseball ] is played above-the-shoulders"
-- Yogi Berra

"Motorsports is a THINKING MAN'S GAME"
-- Wally Dallenbach

"It is better to OUT THINK your opponent, rather than to OUT FIGHT him"
-- Sun Tzu "Art of War"

RobMac played a conservative strategy,i.e. he ran a SMART RACE

"We'll conserve the truck, by 700 mile mark, if we have to race, we have something left"
-- Mikey Childress, TT #7 (Fabtech TT, owned by Scott Steinberger), 2007 Baja 1000 interview @COntingency

^^^ THIS. Smart race strategy..



Below seen at Rock N Road cyclery (SPeciaized dealer) near Rancho Santa Margarita/CA
grewalracing.jpg
 

Honda48X

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Just watched the SF250 on ESPN2 and if you watch the Trucks go through Matomi wash, just watch how fast Rob goes through compared to the others.

He is very careful with not damaging the truck.
 

JDDurfey

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"90% of the game [ baseball ] is played above-the-shoulders"
-- Yogi Berra

"Motorsports is a THINKING MAN'S GAME"
-- Wally Dallenbach

"It is better to OUT THINK your opponent, rather than to OUT FIGHT him"
-- Sun Tzu "Art of War"

RobMac played a conservative strategy,i.e. he ran a SMART RACE

"We'll conserve the truck, by 700 mile mark, if we have to race, we have something left"
-- Mikey Childress, TT #7 (Fabtech TT, owned by Scott Steinberger), 2007 Baja 1000 interview @COntingency

^^^ THIS. Smart race strategy..



Below seen at Rock N Road cyclery (SPeciaized dealer) near Rancho Santa Margarita/CA
View attachment 245965

The fact that you put a Mikey Childress interview from the 07 B1000 in this is hilarious. The Class 1 I co-drove in to San Ignacio blew its engine at San Juanico. I was sitting at the highway intersection near La Purisima waiting for darkness before driving backwards into San Juanico to rescue them. There was a chase crew there so we started talking. He told me Mike was on his way. It was evening of the second day...way off the pace, but Mikey was driving like he was going to win the race! That truck looked like hammered dog poop when it rolled in. There was no hood, and every body panel was damaged! While they swapped co-drivers and splashed some fuel, I talked to Mike for a few minutes. We knew each other from bike racing days. After he left, the co-driver that got out told me that he had never had a ride like that! I remembered us passing them during the night, turns out they had a bad alternator and were waiting on parts.
 

mig29

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The fact that you put a Mikey Childress interview from the 07 B1000 in this is hilarious. The Class 1 I co-drove in to San Ignacio blew its engine at San Juanico. I was sitting at the highway intersection near La Purisima waiting for darkness before driving backwards into San Juanico to rescue them. There was a chase crew there so we started talking. He told me Mike was on his way. It was evening of the second day...way off the pace, but Mikey was driving like he was going to win the race! That truck looked like hammered dog poop when it rolled in. There was no hood, and every body panel was damaged! While they swapped co-drivers and splashed some fuel, I talked to Mike for a few minutes. We knew each other from bike racing days. After he left, the co-driver that got out told me that he had never had a ride like that! I remembered us passing them during the night, turns out they had a bad alternator and were waiting on parts.

I remember Mikey got a ride with Camburg TT. It was the Parker 400, it rolled near the start (paralleling that Shea Road?). I got the impression it was "driver error" (over driving the car). I think Camburg changed drivers after that.. On the subject of Camburg, their TT never had any great results. Their TT display (great looking tubular frame) at ORE (Offroad Expo) looked impressive. They NEED better race results!!

Jesse Jones put Mikey & Steve Hengeveld (Honda moto rider) in a Trophy Truck, I believe it was the Parker 425.

Last I heard of Mikey, was when he took his young son to a Mint 400 (paid $$ for that spectator section, i.e. money-grubbing Martelli Bros). He got INSULTED by an agro BLM cop

He's the 3rd cousin of famed Richard Childress, owner of the famed RCR (Richard Childress Racing) #3 (Dale Earnhardt "The Intimidator")

Always polite/professional to me, ran into him at SEMA one year. I still have his race promo-pamphlet. He had a "tough love" childhood, always respected THAT!

I have one sister, Sarah Nardini, who is 6 years older than I am. It was kind of tough having my older sister stick up for me whenever I had a problem with another kid, when most kids would have had an older brother to do that job. Sarah did an excellent job at it though and she still does. She lives in Salem, Oregon (with her husband, Michael and the two girls, Brittany and Katie), but is looking forward to moving back home to Wrightwood in the near future. Love you Sarah !
When I was 9 years old, we moved to Clyde Ranch, in the Lone Pine Canyon area of Wrightwood. Clyde Ranch is a 160 acre working apple ranch which was established in 1870. There are no utilities, except phone, in that canyon still today. We had a generator that we used very seldom and I did my homework by kerosene lamp, literally living similar to that of a pioneer. We couldn't get any TV reception there, so the alternative activities were reading, playing board games and things like that. I learned alot about apple trees during the two years we lived there and I split alot of wood since that was our only source of heat. It was a learning experience in many ways. It was okay, but I was glad to move back into the residential area.
 
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Slippery P

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I guess it depends on what by definition is considered ‚Äúcomplexity‚ÄĚ.

If the advancement in technology by itself in one’s opinion is making things complex, well that is a debatable subject.

Over engineering too the point of complexity is a whole other kettle of fish.
 

michael.gonzalez

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I guess it depends on what by definition is considered ‚Äúcomplexity‚ÄĚ.

If the advancement in technology by itself in one’s opinion is making things complex, well that is a debatable subject.

Over engineering too the point of complexity is a whole other kettle of fish.
I agree.

I think ICE's vs. Electric motors are a great example of this.

Some would argue ICE's are simpler. (Air, fuel, spark, compression)
But they have WAY more moving parts are FAR more points of failure.

Electric motors actually are simpler hardware-wise, but require more software/electronics to perform.
 

jon coleman

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I guess it depends on what by definition is considered ‚Äúcomplexity‚ÄĚ.

If the advancement in technology by itself in one’s opinion is making things complex, well that is a debatable subject.

Over engineering too the point of complexity is a whole other kettle of fish.
lets get back to basics, a 26 mile foot raceūüŹĀ
 

johndjmix

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This is a great topic. The best setup is a mix of both. Not just race related, im always looking to save time when i can on repetitive tasks.

A bit off dezert, but this is when i realized it.

Back in NY, my friends and I use to go jet skiing at 5pm after work every day. We would run out to the ocean, if there were no waves we would just go home...we went to jump. But so many things to do every day to do this got old. The key to making it work was simplicity and complexity all in one.

I always had my ski on a single place trailer, with a box on the trailer containing a flush adapter, spray nozzle, 8' hose (Shorter hose, less time to wrap up), with quick connects for the flush adapter and spray nozzle, sponge, spray bottle of soap (Spray soap on fast, no bucket needed), and all my jet ski gear (lifejacket, dry suit, goggles). When i would leave work i would just run home, open my garage door with the remote, hitch up and go! Everything was there. After jet skiing, i would pull out of the water, pull right up to the water tap at the dock, flush the ski, then spray it with soap and wash it right there. It would self-dry while trailering home. The entire load, wash, and flush procedure took less than 5 minutes, and it made sense since i was already wet why not do it all at once. I would be home already while the other guys were just leaving the dock. Even better the ski was allready setup for the next day. Eventually others picked up my setup for speed.

My setup also had the lights mounted to PVC pipe so they never went in the ocean, and a fast tie down system that was attached to the trailer...again, less issues.

So relating this to the dezert, the key is a mix of both, simplicity, and complexity make speed and reliability.

--John
 

Klaus

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I posted my Antifragility theory on monday and since have been reading more about it. Its fascinating to me.
For lazy mode simply yt search it and when Nassim Nicholas Taleb comes up watch.

Basically the key is to take many smaller risks and stresses over time. Each experience and especially failure is a lesson that you build upon. You never ever just do 100%. You do 110% in many things over long periods of time. Always doing tiny bit more into the uncomfortable zone. That way your risks are diversified and so are your strengths. Now when the outlier event occurs you are not relying on just that one strength in your capital. Its near impossible to get whipped out in a disaster. Contrary you will shine the more stress there is because stress is your language. You actually love it.

Decentralized structures hence increase in value moderately in normal times and positively explode under stress. I see the world of off-road that way and oppose a single sanctioning body over many organizations how it currently functions. Its to make the whole not only resilient but antifragile. Offroad is just so much more complicated compared to other sports that the marketers looking for fast return with minimum investment run after failures. It keep offroad racing pure of parasite types as they get easier targets in other motorsports. The easy ones.

This approach applies to many if not all things in life.
 

Argentino

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I posted my Antifragility theory on monday and since have been reading more about it. Its fascinating to me.
For lazy mode simply yt search it and when Nassim Nicholas Taleb comes up watch.

Basically the key is to take many smaller risks and stresses over time. Each experience and especially failure is a lesson that you build upon. You never ever just do 100%. You do 110% in many things over long periods of time. Always doing tiny bit more into the uncomfortable zone. That way your risks are diversified and so are your strengths. Now if the outliner event occurs you are not relying on just that one strength in your capital. Its near impossible to get whipped out in a disaster. Contrary you will shine the more stress there is because stress is your language. You actually love it.

Decentralized structures hence increase in value moderately in normal times and positively explode under stress. I see the world of off-road that way and oppose a single sanctioning body over many organizations how it currently functions. Its to make the whole not only resilient but antifragile. Offroad is just so much more complicated compared to other sports that the marketers looking for fast return with minimum investment run after failures. It keep offroad racing pure of parasite types as they get easier targets in other motorsports. The easy ones.

This approach applies to many if not all things in life.
My entire existence is based on this methodology. Less is more. Also, the complacent get what other complacents get. So it's easy to run the road less traveled even if you're just going slow. Slower is faster. Doing something is better than doing nothing. Doing nothing is nothing but doing something is learning and progressing in time. Time being the true cost of everything. Some people mistakenly understand "time is money" to mean that my time should be worth a set amount of money when in reality losing time is losing the VALUE OF LIFE. Not monetary. You don't get back the time of your life in which you waste. Little goals add up to a large achievement. Keep setting small achievable goals. Not large out of this world goals that you can't and won't achieve.

If sand were money, the beaches would be bare so the idea is to make a value of yourself and it doesn't matter the value of the currency; Be a renaissance man.
 

Klaus

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My entire existence is based on this methodology. Less is more. Also, the complacent get what other complacents get. So it's easy to run the road less traveled even if you're just going slow. Slower is faster. Doing something is better than doing nothing. Doing nothing is nothing but doing something is learning and progressing in time. Time being the true cost of everything. Some people mistakenly understand "time is money" to mean that my time should be worth a set amount of money when in reality losing time is losing the VALUE OF LIFE. Not monetary. You don't get back the time of your life in which you waste. Little goals add up to a large achievement. Keep setting small achievable goals. Not large out of this world goals that you can't and won't achieve.

If sand were money, the beaches would be bare so the idea is to make a value of yourself and it doesn't matter the value of the currency; Be a renaissance man.
yes.
Now the one that has his value tight to money that is getting debased by others out of his own control... ohh boy. That must suck.

Back to racing.... The one that races a lot and enjoys every failure and gets value out of it. The one that fails a lot but small over long time will win big when the challenges are plenty. Thats why some do well at longer stressful races vs. others do well at sprints. Its the driver and team. People. You see it in the same people winning the long races over and over no matter what they drive. vs. Those that bet all on one or two game changer technologies.
 
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jon coleman

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yes.
Now the one that has his value tight to money that is getting debased by others out of his own control... ohh boy. That must suck.

Back to racing.... The one that races a lot and enjoys every failure and gets value out of it. The one that fails a lot but small over long time will win big when the challenges are plenty. Thats why some do well at longer stressful races vs. others do well at sprints. Its the driver and team. People. You see it in the same people winning the long races over and over no matter what they drive. vs. Those that bet all on one or two game changer technologies.
i had fun at All my races, especially the first few rx 7 road races getting lapped & not getting in the way, even later on , hanging with the lead pack was my goal, made it in the later years, never had a bad race, even my couple of dnfs, clutch& twice fuel, learned a lot
 

mig29

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yes.
Now the one that has his value tight to money that is getting debased by others out of his own control... ohh boy. That must suck.

Back to racing.... The one that races a lot and enjoys every failure and gets value out of it. The one that fails a lot but small over long time will win big when the challenges are plenty. Thats why some do well at longer stressful races vs. others do well at sprints. Its the driver and team. People. You see it in the same people winning the long races over and over no matter what they drive. vs. Those that bet all on one or two game changer technologies.

"Success is 90% FAILURE"
-- Soichiro Honda

Honda was a BIG fan of Motorsports, going WAY back (in the 60's) -- motocycle racing. THen, they got into autos

They were a MAJOR factor in Formula 1, notably McLaren -- the days of Ayrton Senna & Alain Prost (McLaren teammates). They've been a main-stay in Indycar & IMSA. Latter 2 is my current focus, along with WEC (World ENdurance Championship). HPD (Honda Performance Development) was created

"As I've said before, Honda needs to race. Racing is such a key part of our culture; it is not about the simple marketing benefits of racing. Honda needs to race to support its interests in associate and technology development and motivation of our associates, dealers, suppliers and customers."
^^^ THIS..

to address their Indycar involvement. Jeff Proctor's Honda offroad team is 1 of the HPD spinoffs -- they use HPD engines (from Indycar). I met Jeff at LA Auto Show (MANY years ago), after the Honda press-conference (media day). we exchanged business-cards

I have a MAJOR project in the works for Indycar (via owner Roger Penske & his right-hand-man Tim Cindric..President Team Penske), with HPD involved. I'm working with its Director of Racing. They are attempting to use Cloud Supercomputing, to mirror Formula 1:

"Data Sciences" war

[ "Data Minig" (aka Big Data), to sift thru the HUMONGOUS amounts of real-time-telemetry (practice & Q'fying), in search of SPEED


AI (ARtificial Intelligence)/DL (Deep Learning..neural networks) are involved as "clever algorithms". Wtih GPU-cluster architectures as a hardware accelerator ]

My PhD ('84 U of Illinois Electrical Eng/Computer Vision) is part of the "Big 3"

AI (Artificial Intelligence), Computer Vision, Robotics

CORE Technologies for Emerging Economy of AUtonomous Cars

71 BILLION $$ market-valuation in 2021, projected 740 BILLION by 2027

[ birthed" in Offroad Racing via DARPA Grand CHallenge 2004/Barstow & 2005/Primm


administered by SCORE (Sal & Paul Fish had to get Secret Clearances by Feds/FBI). The 2 DoD (Dept of Defense) contractors who did the LIVE IRIDIUM vehicle-tracking (NAL Research & SRA International) got DE-FRAUDED by some Offroad Racing SCOUNDRELS (my Jumplive LiveWebCast project got HIJACKED):


invoking the Patriot Act (MANDATORY Federal Prison sentence)

with many CURRENT Offroad Racing entities (Ultra4/KOTH & Mint 400) in BIG TROUBLE!! I.e., traces of the above SCOUNDRELS "running around". What Klaus/I discussed 2 nights ago, who he describes as PARASITES (feeding of the Host..in this case the *diffuse* DISORGANIZED Offroad Racing)

The FBI will be looking at the INCRIMINATING paper-trail, & sniffing-around for MORE

They are going to be in "kill mode" because it INFRINGES on the US Military (incentive for the DARPA Grand Challenge):

DoD (Dept of Defense) wants ALL military supply vehicles to be FSD (Full Self Driving)

after the Nassariyah/Iraq incident (supply column got lost, ambushed, injuries/death (NAVY Seals had to rescue Private Jessica Lynch)


Plus, there's the "It's the Economy STUPID!" factor:

EVERY Auto Mfr has an effort in Autonomous:

General Motors partnered w/Honda, BMW partnered with Intel/Mobileye

Audi/Mercedes-Benz/Toyota are each partnering with Nvidia

VW & Hyundai are partnering with Aurora Tech

[ founded by Dr Chris Urmson (CTO of the CMU "Carnegie-Mellon Univ" DARPA GC team, 1 of the 2 odds-on favorites), STerling Anderson (former Tesla Autopilot lead), & a 3rd guy ]

but VW recently pulled out ]

It's NOT JUST Motorsports, but ALL of the Engineering & The Science‚ĄĘ‚ĄĘ disciplines:

HEP (High Energy Physics), e.g. CERN/LHC (Large Hadron Collider), which also is generating HUGE data-sets. NEEDS HPC (High Performance Computing) as a tool

^^^ 1 of my interests, Motorsports WAS a side-thing, now it's part of my focus sectors (since it merges with my activity in Engineering & Applied The Science‚ĄĘ‚ĄĘ)

SUMMARY:
Motorsports has been a MANDATORY part of Automotive:

Development Platform (for Real World TESTING) to address

1) Safety

2) Performance


Follow Honda (who FAMOUSLY acknowledges that Failure is part of SUCCESS).

They JUST partnered with General Motors in Autonomous Cars (announced in Sept/2020), where Honda has a WORLD-CLASS robotics effort (R&D)

buddha.jpg
 
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jon coleman

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so , mig, looks like it used to be win on sunday sell on monday, now its win on sunday,equalls a more efficient war machineūüĎć
 

johndjmix

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You know guys, ive been prepping the race truck hardcore (3AM nights) for the last few weeks and it made me realize something. Its not just the race why we do what we do. The prep might "suck" but in the back of our minds its actually a good time. We come over, eat tacos, fabricate and rebuild parts. Its always filled with a lot of laughter and good times. I love what we do, and wouldnt have it any other way.

--John
 

jon coleman

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i loved those teammates that had the steak& cold beer radar, it was tuned perfectly, it didnt pick up " 'need to pull rear pumpkin ' for some reason
 
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