• Forum membership has its advantages....

CONSOLIDATE CLASSES...WE MUST!!!

dan200

#BSF200
I don't get why TL can't step up their game?
Because its a spec class with brand specific components with prize purses that make racing one and finishing well being financially rewarding for the racer.

Overbuilt and a little heavy? Sure. Pistols BAJA LITES ran the same motor but had a much lighter chassis and even rookies won a lot of stuff in those things.

Messer put a V of some kind in a TL and raced another class and hauled ass in it.

BUT back to the trophy lites- They were never meant to be compared to any other class. There is almost nothing that was "open" about them. And if they got updated then everyone who owns one has to update theirs. So now we've added costs to a class that was designed to keep costs down. And added power which results in added wear on components so now they cost more to prep.

There is NO reason for anyone besides those who own TrophyLites to make changes to a class that seems pretty self sufficient. I dont disagree that they could have been a little lighter from the get go but iy is what it is. SPEC. I do look forward to you starting the "Trophy Lighter" class though but look out because I hear someone is already working on "Trophy Lightest" and that sounds more promising except for the part where the rules change every 4 weeks.

Can someone suggest that class 9 be allowed to have honda spoon motors next?

Kidding, sorta...
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter really. TL's are slow compared to 10 and that's just the way it is. (Because spec class and all)
Hence my excitement for new Class 3000's. Limited mostly by motor requirements much like class 10, 6100, 6200

It's what TL should have been IMO but time will tell how the 2.3 turbo holds up.
Again not to beat the dead horse here, but why 10+ years ago, should TL's have been created to be competitive with Class 10s? That wasnt the intent at all. It was intended to be a reasonably affordable spec class that limited the amount of impact big budgets had and maximized the impact of driver/prep. It's not rocket science. Back then, now....what would be the point of building any kind of spec vehicle to be competitive with any other class of vehicle? It just doesn't make any sense.

If 3000s are going to be as rad as some are suggesting, then they should have plenty of entries on their own to not need to worry about what other classes could be combined for more turnout. As Bro_Gill noted, the ONLY time combining classes makes sense in my opinion as well is when you're looking at a dying class with significantly and consistently low (like less than 5) entries per race and in my view even that should be option and up to the people actually racing in the class.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
PS, back to the point that a few others have made too....even if a class only has 2 or 3 (or less) entries, who cares? Are the Hall's ruining off road racing because they are racing their Colorado in a 1 entry class? Is that really the thing that's keeping desert racing from being "big time", and if so, is that really what we want?

The generic complaint about too many classes is always that they exist for someone to get a participation trophy. But that's not necessarily reality. In some cases, probably. But there are plenty of classes with low turn out in which the racers that have spent a lot of time on money on their race programs would much rather have more people come race with them, but in the absence of competition STILL show up anyway because they love this stuff. Are we really going to knock the people who are spending their hard earned money to bring their friends and family out to be actual participants instead of spectators that they CAN'T come unless they ditch their vehicle and race in a class we approve of?

I'd take a person who actually went through the trouble to show up and race a 1 truck race over a bunch of keyboarders who are sitting around on the internet throwing stones any day of the week. Its not as cool as beating a double digit field of entries for sure, but it's a lot cooler than sitting on the couch watching Fishgistics all day or whatever. Before we start telling people they need to sell their stuff and start over in the classes we "approve of", we probably ought to at least be able to show that they are hurting the sport by not doing so.
 

Slippery P

Well-Known Member
I'm referring to the wider 2.3 turbo solid-axle linked trucks.
They look like smaller TT's. Whatever class that is.
If the 2.3 turbo is decent, it doesn't seem like a bad swap for class 5's, TL's, and class 10's since there is complaining about the 2.4/2.5 Ecotec's getting old.
Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead or crazy. Probably.
The Fusion trucks will be getting a GM 2.7L turbo 4cyl. With an 8 speed auto trans.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
The Fusion trucks will be getting a GM 2.7L turbo 4cyl. With an 8 speed auto trans.
Wasn't the plan, but is what it will be. I wondered why he didn't spec a manual to help the turbo. He said the drivers would be too hard on them in a rental program. We will see.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
PS, back to the point that a few others have made too....even if a class only has 2 or 3 (or less) entries, who cares? Are the Hall's ruining off road racing because they are racing their Colorado in a 1 entry class? Is that really the thing that's keeping desert racing from being "big time", and if so, is that really what we want?

The generic complaint about too many classes is always that they exist for someone to get a participation trophy. But that's not necessarily reality. In some cases, probably. But there are plenty of classes with low turn out in which the racers that have spent a lot of time on money on their race programs would much rather have more people come race with them, but in the absence of competition STILL show up anyway because they love this stuff. Are we really going to knock the people who are spending their hard earned money to bring their friends and family out to be actual participants instead of spectators that they CAN'T come unless they ditch their vehicle and race in a class we approve of?

I'd take a person who actually went through the trouble to show up and race a 1 truck race over a bunch of keyboarders who are sitting around on the internet throwing stones any day of the week. Its not as cool as beating a double digit field of entries for sure, but it's a lot cooler than sitting on the couch watching Fishgistics all day or whatever. Before we start telling people they need to sell their stuff and start over in the classes we "approve of", we probably ought to at least be able to show that they are hurting the sport by not doing so.
yup, if i had cash, and could go fast in a 2-3 car field& the Much lower spec class has 25 entries, me personally will drop ' down' to the " slower" class to see how Slow i REALLY am, spec racing in a large run group taught me how to think to push 100% of the time, No rest time, so my advice to anyone in off road is keep dropping down in affordable classes till you can get into a 25 + car field, like jeepspeed was for me for awhile, even though i never won, ( close), i was Always dicing with a direct class competitor, not another class guy.race on
 

Fourstroker

Well-Known Member
Wasn't the plan, but is what it will be. I wondered why he didn't spec a manual to help the turbo. He said the drivers would be too hard on them in a rental program. We will see.
My guess would be that the 2.7/8 speed auto package comes right out of a new Chevy/GMC truck. Pure speculation of course. I have this package in my new full size work truck and it scoots amazingly well
 

Curtis Guise

Administrator
@jackassracing89 Didn't VORRA create Group T as a solution for vehicles with only a couple entries? Is there a buggy version of Group T?

From VORRA's rule book.

GROUP T:
MIXED TRUCK & SUV

GENERAL REGULATIONS
Class entrants shall comply with all class and applicable general regulations.

COMPETITION REGULATIONS

This is a HYBRID class and all components will be considered specified in the rules that define
each respective category that is participating in this group competition.
Note: All universal rules apply unless specified. The URxx abbreviations are provided. Where a
conflict between the cross-referenced listings and a rule contained under this class occurs, the rule contained under this class has precedence.
Each vehicle must be fully aligned or compliant with at least one of the following categories: A. Open 4 Cylinder, Unlimited chassis, wheel base, track width, and engine setback, stock forced induction may be allowed

2. Limited 6 Cylinder (4.5L, 3,000lb Min, 87” Track); stock forced induction may be allowed
3. Tube Chassis 2wd 8 Cylinder (Max travel 22”, Any Body, Weight Chart for Short Course)
4. Tube Chassis 4wd 8 Cylinder (4wd tube chassis, NO IFS, Weight Chart for Short Course)
5. Production Frame 8 Cylinder (Production Frame, 4,000lb Min or Weight Chart for SC)
6. PRO Truck (Sealed 360cid engine, 5,000lb Min)

In addition to being class compliant with a category A through F listed, Group T trucks must also
adhere to the category specific vehicle weight to cubic inch reference chart.
(SC Only) Until further notice minimum weight restrictions based on engine displacement are lifted for this
class by association rules voting.

All other VORRA “Production” or “Pure-Stock” Truck/SUV classes are also eligible.

VORRA Extreme Trucks, SCORE “Trophy Trucks”, SNORE “Ultimate Trucks” or BITD “Trick
Trucks” are not eligible.
 

jackassracing89

Well-Known Member
@jackassracing89 Didn't VORRA create Group T as a solution for vehicles with only a couple entries? Is there a buggy version of Group T?

From VORRA's rule book.

GROUP T:
MIXED TRUCK & SUV

GENERAL REGULATIONS
Class entrants shall comply with all class and applicable general regulations.

COMPETITION REGULATIONS

This is a HYBRID class and all components will be considered specified in the rules that define
each respective category that is participating in this group competition.
Note: All universal rules apply unless specified. The URxx abbreviations are provided. Where a
conflict between the cross-referenced listings and a rule contained under this class occurs, the rule contained under this class has precedence.
Each vehicle must be fully aligned or compliant with at least one of the following categories: A. Open 4 Cylinder, Unlimited chassis, wheel base, track width, and engine setback, stock forced induction may be allowed

2. Limited 6 Cylinder (4.5L, 3,000lb Min, 87” Track); stock forced induction may be allowed
3. Tube Chassis 2wd 8 Cylinder (Max travel 22”, Any Body, Weight Chart for Short Course)
4. Tube Chassis 4wd 8 Cylinder (4wd tube chassis, NO IFS, Weight Chart for Short Course)
5. Production Frame 8 Cylinder (Production Frame, 4,000lb Min or Weight Chart for SC)
6. PRO Truck (Sealed 360cid engine, 5,000lb Min)

In addition to being class compliant with a category A through F listed, Group T trucks must also
adhere to the category specific vehicle weight to cubic inch reference chart.
(SC Only) Until further notice minimum weight restrictions based on engine displacement are lifted for this
class by association rules voting.

All other VORRA “Production” or “Pure-Stock” Truck/SUV classes are also eligible.

VORRA Extreme Trucks, SCORE “Trophy Trucks”, SNORE “Ultimate Trucks” or BITD “Trick
Trucks” are not eligible.

Yes Group T was formed over 10 years ago to help with smaller Class 8 and 7 fields. Now the class usually has over 15 entries, from class 8's, 7200's, and 1400 truck's winning. 6100's can run their own class or run in the Extreme truck class.
We created a Group T sportsman for the guys running more of a 7s-V6 class. That class is starting to gain traction with older trucks similar to class 2000.
We do not have a Buggy group as of yet. Several run sportsman buggy or go into Class 1/Extreme Truck.
At last years Fallon race the top 4 overall finished within 4 minutes of each other. The Halls 4wd Spec TT, Steven Scott's 6200, Paul Broughton's spec TT (pistols old geiser 3 seater) and Bruce Field in his class 8.
 

champtruck77

Well-Known Member
I'd take a person who actually went through the trouble to show up and race a 1 truck race over a bunch of keyboarders who are sitting around on the internet throwing stones any day of the week. Its not as cool as beating a double digit field of entries for sure, but it's a lot cooler than sitting on the couch watching Fishgistics all day or whatever. Before we start telling people they need to sell their stuff and start over in the classes we "approve of", we probably ought to at least be able to show that they are hurting the sport by not doing so.
I´ve read this before. I´ve been a fan that have gone to every Baja 500 and Baja 1000 for 30 years in a row. You are telling me that I can´t talk about offroad because I don´t race; you are wrong, I love and know Baja more than any racer who have raced only a few times. Baja races exist because of the fans in Baja California, is our sport, we grew up with it, it´s our passion.
There have been accidents involving race vehicles just because the driver ran out of talent during a race in Baja; because for the driver it was a hobby, and he had the money to race the premier class. This racer needs to bay a 1600 car instead of a TT, you have to earn your place with the big boys.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Sorry if you misinterpreted my point. I was specifically talking about people who never race, criticizing people who actually do just because they race in classes that don’t have a lot of entries. My point is I have more respect for people that are actually spending their time and hard earned cash to get out there and actually race...even if it’s just for a “participation” trophy than I do for people who don’t race at all that are trying to criticize those that do.

I wasn’t telling you or anyone else that you aren’t entitled to your opinion or suggesting that your opinion doesn’t matter if you don’t race.
 

43mod

Well-Known Member
I spent a tough 1992 silently watching dirt track cars knowing i could do better than most. I still kept my mouth shut. By spring of 93 i shoe stringed a pure stock together. Still kept mouth shut and ran pretty well. Buy the ticket , take the ride or shut up.
 

champtruck77

Well-Known Member
Sorry if you misinterpreted my point. I was specifically talking about people who never race, criticizing people who actually do just because they race in classes that don’t have a lot of entries. My point is I have more respect for people that are actually spending their time and hard earned cash to get out there and actually race...even if it’s just for a “participation” trophy than I do for people who don’t race at all that are trying to criticize those that do.

I wasn’t telling you or anyone else that you aren’t entitled to your opinion or suggesting that your opinion doesn’t matter if you don’t race.
I apologize too, my English is not the best, I find it hard to express myself.


The sport has varied opinions, those who are in a team, those who race and also those who are from outside, such as journalists, followers. Sometimes it seems that only the opinion of persons who knows or builds a race car is worth.

I agree, a racer who participates in a class with few competitors has more merit than who prefers not to participate and stay at home.

In my opinion all classes are important, SCORE should try to promote them so we have good competition. I don't really like that a class is the one of the moment. A few years ago class 10 had few entries, but now it is very competitive one; class 1 was very competitive 12 years ago, now it is not, it has been overshadowed by two new trophy truck classes In the end each driver decides what to spend or in which class to compete, but it is the task of the organizer to maintain competition in other classes, specially the ones with low entries; how? lowering entries costs, attractive prizes, or putting locks to be able to participate in a pro or stellar category; for example, in order to compete in a TT you first need to have to complete seasons in class 10 or class 7, just an example.
 

Attachments

rkracing

Well-Known Member
Doubt any promoters would eliminate or merge classes out of fear of turning away competitors. The group format that Vorra has sounds like a cool concept though. Even if there is only a handful in your class you would still be racing others in your group. Could be grouped by engine displacements like unlimiteds, ecotecs, 1600s, etc...
 

43mod

Well-Known Member
If you get enough trucks to make a class they would let you be a class. Otherwise group T was the place to be. Hard to argue w that.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
My guess would be that the 2.7/8 speed auto package comes right out of a new Chevy/GMC truck. Pure speculation of course. I have this package in my new full size work truck and it scoots amazingly well
They were trying to go with the Camaro 6 speed, but nothing come close to matching up. 8 speed should help the turbo. Gear ration being used isn't too crazy either. No need for an underdrive.
 
Top