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Cost of Race Photo's

Kartman

Media Goon
Yeah I caught that earlier. Haha

What about a photo with no water mark? Is that OK to post on social media?

For instance there is a thread here with a guy posting photos of vehicles at the Rage. He does not seem to be selling them and they have no water mark. Would you take that as they can be used or still no?

Mike
As stated the photog owns the copyright and the image. It does not matter how they display it or where. No one has any legal right to do anything with it unless they have the permission of the photographer/copyright holder.

Think of a fruit stand, there is lots of fruit displayed on the street, but you cannot have any of it unless you pay for it or the guy running the stand gives it to you.

Its very very easy to avoid problems when you want to use a photo for anything. Ask the photographer first.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Mike

Thanks. Good to know.

I Know technically they are copywrite material. Just was not clear that if they offered them up and said nothing of payment if you still could not post them.

I see a lot of guys posting photos that were shared on the Rage photo thread. I doubt these guys know they should not be doing that.

I am sure it’s frustrating for the photographers but it’s not as clear as they think it is to us outsiders.

Mike
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
I have said that I understand. You guys made it clear to me and I get it. Just pointing out that it might not be as clear to others. Which i am sure is frustrating.

Let me say it clearly. I understand that a photo is owned by the person that created it and it falls under copyright law.

I also understand that if my friend takes a photo of my truck and he texted it to me then I can use it, I would even give photo cred to the friend. If it’s not a good friend I would ask permission before I post it. If the friend is a pro photographer then I for sure would ask permission.

If you are my neighbor and you know my mower is broken and you bring yours over to me then yes I would assume it’s ok to use it. Unless you said hey you can use my mower for a fee. Then I guess we would negotiate the fee for the mower or I would choose to not use it.

I think I get it. Maybe it’s just coldness of written words on the forum that makes this seem negative. It seems to me that you guys are giving me a lot of crap for simply wanting to understand.

Sorry to have asked about such a sensitive subject. I honestly did not know it was so sensitive.


Thanks.
Mike
 
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Zac Reish

Well-Known Member
Can we get this thread moved out of a desert racing forum?

And pm these questions. Your not enlightening or entertaining anyone on this thread.
 

Travisfab

Well-Known Member
3 pages and no costs? I've seen everywhere from $5 to $75 per photo. I think that's what makes it hard for racers to know if they are paying the right price.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Travis,

it seems there is no standard pricing. its up to negotiations each time. Which on one hand I get that the quality can vary and then there is the type of race. a Short course like Laughlin should be less than a race like B1K.

But it seems like those variables could be understood. If I see a photo I like from Baja I would expect it to be more than a photo from Laughlin. Also if there is a photo of my truck thats amazing then I also expect to pay more. I just was surprised it was that much more.

I don't want to post any prices here, they threaten black listing often LOL

Mike
 
But it seems like those variables could be understood.
This is simple: pricing is based on what the market will bear, just like any art- or craft- work.

And CODE entry fees were lower than BITD's, too, last time I checked.

Does SCORE sell photog passes? How much? Same price for US citizens and Mexican nationals? I dunno.

Try understanding medical billing. :(
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Haha good point about Health care and medical billing. Just like taxes you pay what they think you can afford. I pay a huge amount for healthcare to help pay for the guys that cant pay.

Just didn't think photography was the same LOL. really just teasing as I have no proof that I pay more for photos of a TT spec than a 1100 car.

Mike
 

pappawheely

O.G. Photo
Read this entire article. Keep in mind race photography does not take place in a controlled studio stocked with gear, power, cold drinks, etc. We operate in the harshest environments on earth and many times have to pack in our gear through the desert. The dirt, mud, silt and rain thrashes our equipment so it needs to be replaced more frequently. There is a price difference between those of us who earn a living shooting photos and those who are hobbyists. Hobbyists can give their stuff away because they have another source of income to support themselves and their hobby. My prices have always been subjective based on the client. I have given photos to charity and knocked my price down for some racers who I know are struggling just to show up in order to help promote the sport. I still need to earn a living. If you have the money to race at a high level, you make much more than I do. It's hard work, and we already are making a financial sacrifice to do what we love. Most professional photographers would not step one inch into the places we go to get photos. 2019 Average Commercial Photography Pricing
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Mike,

Great points and thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and the article.

I also charge people different amounts. I do high end residential Low voltage (home theater, automation, etc..). I will sell product to a buddy at my cost and I will go help install it for free which actually cost me money. But I cant charge a billionaire double my normal rate just because he can afford it, that would get me black listed :) BTW- Most of my projects are in Beverly hills and very very high end, take a look at my IG @CenturionLV

Fact is the art biz is a pricing mess. I understand you want to get all you can. I just don't agree with charging someone more for the same product just because of how expensive of a race vehicle they have. I also don't agree with Socialism.

Bottom line is its worth what someone will pay and I guess that means guys with more money will pay more. Just sucks in my opinion but I will pay for it and get used to it. :)

I want to support the desert race photographers and I will. I have said many times I respect what you guy do and how you do it. I do value the work you do. Thanks again for taking the time and being productive.

Mike
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Read this entire article. Keep in mind race photography does not take place in a controlled studio stocked with gear, power, cold drinks, etc. We operate in the harshest environments on earth and many times have to pack in our gear through the desert. The dirt, mud, silt and rain thrashes our equipment so it needs to be replaced more frequently. There is a price difference between those of us who earn a living shooting photos and those who are hobbyists. Hobbyists can give their stuff away because they have another source of income to support themselves and their hobby. My prices have always been subjective based on the client. I have given photos to charity and knocked my price down for some racers who I know are struggling just to show up in order to help promote the sport. I still need to earn a living. If you have the money to race at a high level, you make much more than I do. It's hard work, and we already are making a financial sacrifice to do what we love. Most professional photographers would not step one inch into the places we go to get photos. 2019 Average Commercial Photography Pricing
Appreciate your input here. I think some of this is probably the hardest for some folks to really grasp. When they see or buy a picture from a "hobbyist" for next to nothing, they assume that must be the going rate for ALL photogs. They sometimes aren't able to recognize or make the distinction between the photogs that go out and snap 10 shots in sequence of every car as it passes and the professionals who work hard to capture the "right" shot. I think also what a lot of people miss is the value of relationships. Building personal relationships with photogs is an important way to establish that you appreciate their work. That doesn't always mean that they're going to be able to give you a better "deal", but it certainly creates an atmosphere of mutual respect that at least creates an opportunity to have that conversation.

When you approach those conversations blind essentially, it's hard for the photog to take that as anything other than an insult and an attempt to devalue their work. As a community I think we're pretty fortunate to have some really great people who are willing to go out and wreck their equipment, risk heat stroke, and get extra dirty to capture cool moments. Even if the price ends up being too high for your taste or ability, having a working relationship with the photographers is probably a good idea.
 

pappawheely

O.G. Photo
I still think you don't get it. I don't charge affluent teams more, they get the standard rate. I have given people a break that need it. That doesn't mean I can give everyone the same break and adjust the curve down, I would starve. I've been doing this a long time and everyone thinks it's all fun, and easy. Almost every year some new guy thinks it's cool and shows up. He gives his stuff away because he thinks everyone will be his friend. He soon learns that it's hard work, and it takes a pro to get good stuff every time. They usually can't make it and disappear. Many people have gotten a free lunch from these people for years. It has driven prices down. You are already getting bargain rates compared to all other genres of photography. Nobody is getting rich doing this, trust me. Lucky for you there are not thousands of people doing what you do as a hobby. :D
 
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johndjmix

Well-Known Member
5 Stars for Daniel Curiel. He caught a pic of me when racing the quad in the 1000.....didnt hire him but found it on his site. Good price for the photo and great photo. I actually have it poster sized on my dining room wall at home!

--John
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Mike,

Glad to hear you do not charge based on how much the team can afford. I get giving a deal to some people.

I bet its a mess with the Hobbiest guys. There is not much barrier to entry with what you do.

Actually it's the same in my market. Everyone thinks they can install a TV so that makes them an AV guy. Not to mention the 8 guys that I have trained to have them just leave me and compete with me directly. LOL So I get that.

I have adjusted my value perception. In fact just today I have spent $1k on Baja photos and Rage Video clips. Add that to the already $600 I have spent in the last couple months and I think I am doing my part to support you guys. So I am voting with my dollars and my vote goes to the pro guy out on the course.

Mike
 

DTA 55

Well-Known Member
I must say the 2 best deals I ever got for photos were from Mikes Race Photo and Dezertwife. Class 1 and TT.

They were both stateside races but I got a full photo package from both of them for an incredibly fair price. I thought their work was very good as well.

Over the years I looked at alot of photos and could not justify the price for some of them.

Another great deal was from the local with his printer in his truck at Jacume for a CODE race. I probably overpaid but who gets service like that 5 minutes after you finish the race? No hunting for photos, he comes to you and prints them out and you have them in hand in 15 minutes from the end of race.
 

Mike321

Well-Known Member
depending on picture or pictures between $10 to $25 at the Code races in mex
~$25 for a "picture" is why I stopped posting photography of races on Facebook. I just shoot for our team and me now. After the race I send a bag full of cameras and lenses to Canon for cleaning.
 
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