Crash Tested Designs ???

JDDurfey

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Well, here is another question that I don't know the answer to.

Do the organizations, like SCORE or BITD keep track of which vehicles are in bad crashes so they can require the vehicle to have the cage magnafluxed before the next race? Obviously repairs have to be made to pass tech, but those welds are not seriously inspected at tech from my knowledge.
 

12LaPaz

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Well, here is another question that I don't know the answer to.

Do the organizations, like SCORE or BITD keep track of which vehicles are in bad crashes so they can require the vehicle to have the cage magnafluxed before the next race? Obviously repairs have to be made to pass tech, but those welds are not seriously inspected at tech from my knowledge.
Yes... Bill Savage takes care of all of that.... always has, always will.
 

JDDurfey

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I was slightly involved with getting two vehicles SCORE tagged. Bill went over them with a fine tooth comb before issuing a tag. There were some changes that needed to be made and the first few times through tech they were inspected very closely until they saw that everything was indeed up to safety standards. But once they were tagged is seemed like they just flew through tech as far as the cage was concerned.

One of them was in a fairly hard crash at the 500 that year, and while the cage was not damaged, the wreck ripped off all the front suspension on one side and the car ended up on its side. I would think that they would have looked at it a little more at the 1000 tech, and we flew right through.

I know that racers for the most part want to be safe and most will repair their vehicles to the proper safety standards. We all sign waivers to participate, but we also look to the organization to have and enforce safety rules. Of course there will always be those that cut corners and put their lives and the lives of others at risk.
 

green787

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JD, so you were pushing the car through tech, knowing that it had substandard work trying to get it passed... Then when they miss something you know about, you think THEY should be more thorough??? :rolleyes::oops::eek::confused:
 

Deenracing

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Pretty sure the cars today are drawn up on programs like "solid works". The new engineering programs can predict stress points and potential failure spots. Nothing can predict the forces of a high speed roll over. But at least this gives them a starting point. I saw such a program on Chenowith's millennium car when it first came out. They twisted the chassis in the program and the structural spots changed colors as the different forces were applied to them. Really cool stuff. Hope this helps.


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green787

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The way this process really works is asking people what they think, and what experiences they've had with building roll cages before you build yours.... So roll cage technology is an ever evolving science...
 

SMS81

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I believe the Volkswagen Touaregs chassis that were built for baja under went testing by the Vw engineers. I believe the testing consisted of tubing bend strength and different types of welds holding up under stress. I believe the results yielded a chassis with no tubing bends and only mitered cuts along with ugly yet strong welding techniques. This is all from faded memory of a conversation with a builder.
 

Slippery P

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Ivan's 015 was all mitered for that reason.
I also heard from a reputable source that some of the ugliest smoked out welds from one of the late great legends have proven to be the strongest, weld porn isn't everything.
 

scary fast hummer

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The FIA crash tests all chassis designs before they are certified legal to race. It's painful and expensive but it saves lives.

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Dezertpilot

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I'd rather have a fully mitered truck than a truck with bends anyday. But bent tube have proven to be safe and reliable though.
 

JDDurfey

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JD, so you were pushing the car through tech, knowing that it had substandard work trying to get it passed... Then when they miss something you know about, you think THEY should be more thorough??? :rolleyes::oops::eek::confused:


Where in my post did I say anything about "knowing it had substandard work"?

I was perfectly fine with the repairs, and the cage was never affected in the crash, but SCORE did not know that nor did they do any extra inspection on it. That is my point!

You make my teeth itch! You just like to stir the pot don't you.
 

JDDurfey

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The way this process really works is asking people what they think, and what experiences they've had with building roll cages before you build yours.... So roll cage technology is an ever evolving science...

Yeah, I am sure that all the builders like sharing their hard earned knowledge and experience with their competitors. Even if you are a back yard builder, you are a competitor to a builder because that is one less vehicle they potentially have to build and make money from.
 

redline

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The only chassis that I consider truly being crash tested is the Protruck chassis. Are they best, strongest, ect? NO! But they are probably one of the safest and have the crash record to prove it. Out of the 55ish of them that were built, atleast half of them have been crashed at high speed, rolled down mountains, ran into non movable objects, and worse. But to my knowledge nobody has ever been seriously injured. Funny thing is the pissing match between savage and ivan that caused them to not be grandfathered into to chassis tag inspection for so long. Especially considering savage did most of the design!
 

green787

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Yeah, I am sure that all the builders like sharing their hard earned knowledge and experience with their competitors. Even if you are a back yard builder, you are a competitor to a builder because that is one less vehicle they potentially have to build and make money from.

That's not in the spirit of the off road familia.... Nobody is going to trick you into building something unsafe just because you are a potential competitor.....
 

Jorge Rodriguez

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That's not in the spirit of the off road familia.... Nobody is going to trick you into building something unsafe just because you are a potential competitor.....

No, I'm sure they won't trick you into making an unsafe chassis, but they're also not going to tell you how to make the safest either.


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green787

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No, I'm sure they won't trick you into making an unsafe chassis, but they're also not going to tell you how to make the safest either.


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Sorry, I just can't agree with you and JD on this one.... They're not going to tell you how to handle whoops at full throttle but if approached properly I believe any team would give you their latest advice on how to build a cage....
Basically you have two options.... Buy a bender and make a traditional roll cage that bends and crushes.... Or build a rigid "mitered" roll cage that rips your head off when you endo.......
 

51rcr

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the biggest problem is people do think race cars are safe and forget about that it is dangerous. There is always deaths in racing. Most news even now hardly makes it out of the region unless its a bigger series. Like I always say my dad that used to race no seat belt no cage sprint cars always says cut the cage off and see how big there balls are. haha.
Theres the basic design that with the tubing size, hoops and cross bars and braces that over time has provin itself as a bases for safe. Now if someone was to do a composite or aero space stamp type structure it may take lots more to get it accepted. If ya put much more then absorbing bumpers and nerf bars on most race cars people wouldnt be so hip on a car that is totally destroyed in much of a crash absorbing all the impact. Which also wouldnt hold up to desert. Plus side of desert is most everything is soft and gives. Then theres the point of what would you want the crash to resist and where to give, and then how far till the it gives no more to protect occupants?
If you ever get to see a frame pulled on a frame rack or some kind of simulations you will be amazed at what moves, how far and where its transitioned to.
I don't rember the initial testing for the seat belt the guy did but the g force is amazing. 46G is what I found

Every time and the type of crash most any builder would want to know if there was significant damage so I would say there all crash tested and they wouldnt put a design out that wouldnt hold up to a significant crash
 
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51rcr

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Ivan's 015 was all mitered for that reason.
I also heard from a reputable source that some of the ugliest smoked out welds from one of the late great legends have proven to be the strongest, weld porn isn't everything.

Good proof of this is look at lots of tube aircraft and the self done experimentals. Most all gas weld
 

43mod

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I built a simple jig to hold some tubing that had another tube welded to make a T joint. apply bottle jack until failure of weld and or tube. I have only done about 10 welds so far starting cold and fast and working up hotter and slower.Welds that looked too hot were better than cold or average looking beads. The quick results were continuous welds were better than stitch ,as always grinding tack welds and cold starts is huge. All mig welds so far. I think I could spend a week playing with it easily.
 

ErikIrvine

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I think the original question of this thread was a great question. Thought provoking. In an ideal world, yes they would be crash tested. Simple answer why we don't: Economics
 
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