Dakar 2017 Stage 9 Salta – Chilecito cancelled

[Short Bus]

Open thread. Post whatever you think is interesting.

 

[mrlentle]

tomcoronelracing
dakar
EVM Rally Team

 

[Dirty Harry]

OK so this year I feel is more interesting than last year in terms of the navigation aspect, but the weather has still been a huge factor in the race. When I look at the forecast in Antofagasta, the weather is in the 70s and sunny for the next ten days. I feel that if the race is going to stay in South America, ASO has to get back to Chile and/or Peru. When the race came to South America, Argentina and Chile PAID the ASO to come there. Chile and Peru aren't interested in that any more and I feel that they are in the position of power. The last two years have illustrated that the ASO needs them more than they need the ASO. Don't you guys miss the huge downhill dune that runs into Iquique?!

The first time I went was in 2010, and it poured on us in Argentina at the first bivouac. It is almost like Argentina is part of the race because of the money they provide and the rabid fans (although they were significantly less last year when compared to 2010). It certainly isn't because of the weather or the terrain (Fiambala being the exception to the rule). It wasn't until we crossed the Andes that year that I felt the race truly began. 2012 when it ended in Peru instead of looping back to Argentina was even better.

One positive this year is that there have been no fatalities yet. I pray that continues through the entire race.

 

[vegasloki]

The issue with Chile is the economy has cooled pretty dramatically. There is no government money in Chile to support the race. Peru's economy hasn't been doing badly (though not as good as a few years ago) but it doesn't seem they are interested. They've got other issues relating to the government and social services that are more pressing. I think anything ASO did in either of those countries they'd have to pay for themselves plus whatever in "permitting" fees the government and the locals wanted.

 

[Dirty Harry]

The issue with Chile is the economy has cooled pretty dramatically. There is no government money in Chile to support the race. Peru's economy hasn't been doing badly (though not as good as a few years ago) but it doesn't seem they are interested. They've got other issues relating to the government and social services that are more pressing. I think anything ASO did in either of those countries they'd have to pay for themselves plus whatever in "permitting" fees the government and the locals wanted.

Which is what we are accustomed to on this country. Can you imagine the government PAYING Casey Folks to put on races?!

I think that the ASO was accustomed to doing whatever they wanted in Africa. Then Argentina and Chile come along and offer up money. Plus South America has consumers that auto manufacturers and sponsors want to reach. So it is great for the ASO. But their product is the race, and if the race doesn't deliver they lose entries and sponsors and fans lose interest. That is why I think they should consider paying Chile and Peru to race there.


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[mattj112]

Tody Price has been clean to fly back home to Australia to finish his recovery. Has ASO try about doing a race route through southern Brazil into Uruguay and finishing in Argentina look at Map it could easily be done.

 

[bajaxp]

I went to Peru for the Dakar to support a team in 2012 and 2013. We chased for days and the terrain and weather is simply amazing. Despite it being summer in January, the fact that a lot of the course was within rifle distance of the Pacific ocean kept temps well in check. The amount of desert and dune would blow ones mind. In terms of dunes, think 100x (or more) bigger than Glamis and dunes that are at least 10x taller. They simply go on forever. Compare that bliss...to this year's quagmire. Mars vs Venus.
My 2 pesos.

 

[Bull-dust]

Brazil's economy is not great, there is a lot of youth unemployment.
Brazil's Economy Goes Out With A Whimper

Go back to Chile/ Peru and hold the Dakar Rally South America every second year and hold a short Baja France every year, there are areas in the South Of France where an Italian type Baja could be held.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Go back to Chile/ Peru and hold the Dakar Rally South America every second year and hold a short Baja France every year, there are areas in the South Of France where an Italian type Baja could be held.

Admittedly I have only been to the far north end of the country, but I think of Brazil as having more rainforest than the deserts that I associate with the Dakar Rally. I want off piste racing!

I do like the idea of alternating the location. Kind of like the Olympics, I think that this would generate more local interest when it comes to town and make the race more challenging and interesting for racers and fans alike.

 

[bajaxp]

I wonder is the political situation has stabilized in any of the countries in Africa where the Dakar was previously held. Eg...Senegal, Mali, Tunisia, Algeria, Mauritania, etc. Obviously there is major unrest in many places in North Africa, but I still wonder if alternating between North Africa and South America at some point might be possilbe/feasible. It would certainly make things interesting and it would prevent teams from making a car tailored to the terrain of one continent.

Anyway one can only dream when this years' #$%^&-ing Rally is stopped due to WEATHER...again! Grrrrr....

 

[mattj112]

OK has Brazil many be off limits in terms of running cost for event. Here is another possible future route idea run from Musscat in Oman run along the coast to Dubai or Abu Dhabi and then full length of Saudi Arabia to Jeddah. You got has much sand and desert has you want in Mid east plus the weather going to be ok and not going to have problem with water and rain.

 

[mattj112]

video look at the UTV class of event

 

[mrlentle]

OK has Brazil many be off limits in terms of running cost for event. Here is another possible future route idea run from Musscat in Oman run along the coast to Dubai or Abu Dhabi and then full length of Saudi Arabia to Jeddah. You got has much sand and desert has you want in Mid east plus the weather going to be ok and not going to have problem with water and rain.

But what about politics and team safety? Genuine question - maybe Desert dog could chime in with thoughts of actual chances of it being possible in the middle east?

 

[GEO_DXB]

You cant run from Muscat along the coast to Dubai as you will anyways have to cross Hajar mountains. But thats not the point. Such a race is unlikely due to internal sporting federation politics. You also have the safety concern - not the security, but the safety of drivers and riders deep in the desert in Saudi as well as certain lack of closeby medical facilities that are up to scratch.

Also, this would mean finding someone like ASO to run the whole event. For now all UAE races are run and organized by our motorsport federation, same in Qatar and somewhat Saudi, but Oman Desert Challenge (will be run for the first time this Feb and we might race that) is organized by Pharaons Rally organizing team as a "commerical" event that they run for profit for the Omani Federation. Too many egos can be bruised - thats Middle East.

You also got some logistics issues. Saudi visas are a massive PITA for anyone. Same with UAE if you are one of the guys who needs it - you cant really get a multiple entry so certain logistics are going to be complicated. Then take customs, usual Gulf red tape and mix it.

And you will have too much sand around. Oman will be a mix of sand (maybe) and rocks/mountains, a bit of gravel in UAE, but then its sand sand sand and I dont think everyone likes it. Also, you wont have people standing around on the roads greeting you - as everyone can take their Patrol or Land Cruiser to the desert anyways. And current economy isnt making things any better.

 

[Dirty Harry]

You cant run from Muscat along the coast to Dubai as you will anyways have to cross Hajar mountains. But thats not the point. Such a race is unlikely due to internal sporting federation politics. You also have the safety concern - not the security, but the safety of drivers and riders deep in the desert in Saudi as well as certain lack of closeby medical facilities that are up to scratch.

Doesn't that fit the premise of the original Dakar Rally though? When T4 trucks got abandoned in the vast desert and everyone had to sleep in the bivouac instead of heading to town for a hot shower and a hotel room. I mean if we are going to call this the most grueling race in the world after all...

 

[mrlentle]

You cant run from Muscat along the coast to Dubai as you will anyways have to cross Hajar mountains. But thats not the point. Such a race is unlikely due to internal sporting federation politics. You also have the safety concern - not the security, but the safety of drivers and riders deep in the desert in Saudi as well as certain lack of closeby medical facilities that are up to scratch.

Also, this would mean finding someone like ASO to run the whole event. For now all UAE races are run and organized by our motorsport federation, same in Qatar and somewhat Saudi, but Oman Desert Challenge (will be run for the first time this Feb and we might race that) is organized by Pharaons Rally organizing team as a "commerical" event that they run for profit for the Omani Federation. Too many egos can be bruised - thats Middle East.

You also got some logistics issues. Saudi visas are a massive PITA for anyone. Same with UAE if you are one of the guys who needs it - you cant really get a multiple entry so certain logistics are going to be complicated. Then take customs, usual Gulf red tape and mix it.

And you will have too much sand around. Oman will be a mix of sand (maybe) and rocks/mountains, a bit of gravel in UAE, but then its sand sand sand and I dont think everyone likes it. Also, you wont have people standing around on the roads greeting you - as everyone can take their Patrol or Land Cruiser to the desert anyways. And current economy isnt making things any better.

Thanks Geo - I knew there was another active middle east based member but couldn't remember your user name, only Desert Dogs.

 

[GEO_DXB]

Doesn't that fit the premise of the original Dakar Rally though? When T4 trucks got abandoned in the vast desert and everyone had to sleep in the bivouac instead of heading to town for a hot shower and a hotel room. I mean if we are going to call this the most grueling race in the world after all...

For instance the Desert Challenge bivouac is in the desert. Yes, there's a 7 star hotel but mostly everyone sleeps in the tents etc...

Not the point again. Crazy 80s and all that hype is great and all but... A guy from Sixt Ukraine team was training in the desert in UAE when he got separated from a support vehicle. He was dead by the time they found him in about 72 hours. He didnt have an iritrack and such, but myself and many other people probably opt to chose long happy life over a prospect of dying in the desert next to a broken car because Saudis didnt find me in the desert.

 

[GEO_DXB]

Also with 3 World Cup events and more and more local stuff (like Gulf Challenge which will have races across all GCC) the organizers are busy as is. And they probably wont want to cut some of their own events in favor of Middle Eastern Dakar.

 

[kimberleee]

I wonder is the political situation has stabilized in any of the countries in Africa where the Dakar was previously held. Eg...Senegal, Mali, Tunisia, Algeria, Mauritania, etc. Obviously there is major unrest in many places in North Africa, but I still wonder if alternating between North Africa and South America at some point might be possilbe/feasible. It would certainly make things interesting and it would prevent teams from making a car tailored to the terrain of one continent.

Anyway one can only dream when this years' #$%^&-ing Rally is stopped due to WEATHER...again! Grrrrr....

Well I thought the same thing but clearly something must have changed - have u seen the 2017 Africa Eco Race thread? It is incredible - I've been watching everytime Dakar gets rained out - same format, same vehicles, huge sponsors - and they started in Monaco and are ending in Dakar. Its almost as if that organization is completely thumbing their nose at ASO and are touting it as the 'REAL DAKAR' just like the old Paris-Dakar. I have never heard of this race until I saw the thread last week but evidently it has been going for a few years. It is awesome to watch (18 year old kid is leading the bikes), the coverage is awesome - give it a try. Maybe there is hope for the Dakar going back to Africa and there being one Dakar.

 

[mrlentle]

Well I thought the same thing but clearly something must have changed - have u seen the 2017 Africa Eco Race thread? It is incredible - I've been watching everytime Dakar gets rained out - same format, same vehicles, huge sponsors - and they started in Monaco and are ending in Dakar. Its almost as if that organization is completely thumbing their nose at ASO and are touting it as the 'REAL DAKAR' just like the old Paris-Dakar. I have never heard of this race until I saw the thread last week but evidently it has been going for a few years. It is awesome to watch (18 year old kid is leading the bikes), the coverage is awesome - give it a try. Maybe there is hope for the Dakar going back to Africa and there being one Dakar.

Terrorism was a major influence in the Dakar as we know it being moved to SA. The entire rally was completely cancelled in 2008 after some French tourists were killed in Mauritania prior to the event. The Eco Race is certainly cool though is kind of treated as a lower tier event to the SA Dakar. Jean-Louis Schlesser (a stallwart of the original rallies) vowed he'd never race the Dakar outside of Africa and I believe is now tied up with the Eco Race as an organiser?