Definitions?

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
Posts
10,914
Reaction
296
Would somebody explain the differene between some of the classes and which is which. It seems like there are 10 different names for roundy round cars...are these different sanctions(SCORE and BITD) or are they different classes? Nascar, Busch, cart, IRL, F1, etc...I am sure there are a lot I am missing and those who are in the know can fill in the blanks.

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.barneysprecision.com/fabproducts.htm> Fab Parts</A>
 

hoeker

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,004
Reaction
101
nascar is a sanctioning body, just like score, corr, bitd. winston cup, craftsman truck, busch, etc. are all separate classes of nascar. they just got big enuf they don't race everybody on the same weekend like we do.

i believe the rest you mentioned are all separate sanctioning bodies. i think cart is dead, IRL is US, and the very similar F1 is eurpoean. some one can clarify these.

donahoe is obviously dissapointed with this forum, but the lack of knowledge of other forms of motorsports tend to make us close minded. in the past, the first thing that wouldn't be on my TV was IRL, well i had the opportunity to tour the panther racing shop in indy a few weeks back. panther racing won the irl championship the last 2 years. they had just uncrated their first of 3 new cars for this season, and that thing was absolutly incredible!!! all carbon fiber, tiny (5/16) bolts holding the suspension on, rod ends for the a-arms looked like our carb linkage. any way i gained a whole new appreciation for the sport.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rosshoek.com>www.rosshoek.com</A>

"to be successful, you must first learn to disagree without being disagreeable."
 

full_pull

Lobo
Posts
236
Reaction
2
CART (Championship Auto Racing Teams) is not dead, though it may seem that way after the defection of many of the series' major players to IRL following the institution of a normal aspiration engine rule.
 

DSRacing

Mini Metal MOD
Posts
3,456
Reaction
360
Well, lets start with NASCAR and Busch, NASCAR is the sanctioning body for both of these classes. WInston cup cars are the big time. Busch cars are basically a starting point for drivers who want to move up into Winston cup.

CART and IRL are open wheel classes which resulted from the dispute between the owner of the Indy race track and CART. IRL races only on oval tracks with normally aspirated engines, where CART races oval, road, and street courses with Turbos. The basis of both these series is you purchase a chassis and an engine (This year Ford provides a spec engine for CART) but I'm not sure if you buy the engines outright or lease them as they have done in the past. Put it all together and go racing.

Formula 1 is a whole other ballgame. Teams like Ferrari and Toyota build everything in house. Engine, chassis, transmission. So all teams have unique cars as an interpetation of the rules. Hence the HUGE budgets. Other teams build chassis and purchase engines built by others. Mercedes, BMW, Honda. This is only a simplistic explaination of the diiferent series, to detail all the differences would make this post about a mile long. So I'll leave others room to do that. I personally prefer CART and F1 due to the road racing aspect as opposed to just ovals.
 

AllwaysRcn

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,004
Reaction
20
RE: "Busch cars are basically a starting point for drivers who want to move up into Winston cup."

Not Quite. There are alot more "stepping stones" just to reach the Busch level. Southwest tour, Winston West Series, and Craftman Truck Series just to name a few. All of which are NASCAR sanctioned.
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
Posts
10,914
Reaction
296
so give me some analogies between desert racing classes and roundy round!

what is the class 11 of roundy round?
" " class 900?
" "class 1600?
" "class 1000?
and i take it class 1 would be winston cup?

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.barneysprecision.com/fabproducts.htm> Fab Parts</A>
 

hoeker

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,004
Reaction
101
i'm not all that familiar with your desert classes, but i believe class 1 is pretty much unlimited, right? i think winston cup is exactly the opposite, winston cup rule are countless, and very very strick, i would really compare it more to my CORR stocker. limiting rules, but not spec parts. the rules got interpreted by the teams, and demanded more rules to control the competion. bush is very similar to cup, but limited in engine mostly. craftsman truck is basically cup cars with truck bodies.

i don't know if it's possible to correllate the offroad classes to ashphalt classes, all are stepping stones, but totally different reasons why. in asphalt you start at your local track in a stock chassis car, then you step up to late model, which is fabricated chassis. this is where most guys stop, some go on to try ASA next, then from there busch or craftsman truck, then cup. some guys get lucky and skip most of these steps.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rosshoek.com>www.rosshoek.com</A>


"to be successful, you must first learn to disagree without being disagreeable."
 

elcaprerunner

Well-Known Member
Posts
951
Reaction
3
I really compare a Winston Cup car more to a ProTruck. WC is the most unlimited class, but still has tons of rules. With so many restrictions, Protruck is still a very unlimited class. They are full-tube chassis and 4-link and everything yet each one has to be the same thing accept choice of motor and body of the truck. That whole point of Protruck is to show the ability of the driver not the truck, am I right? WC is just the same because NASCAR keeps all the WC cars basically the same accept for motors and bodies, and they make even more rules to show that, so it is also to show the ability of the driver.

Yes hoeker, class 1s are the unlimited class of desert racing.

If I was going to compare a class 1 to anything on pavement I would have to say top fuel dragster... Open wheeled and unlimited pretty much. For a TT, I would compare it to a top fuel funny car... Fiberglass or carbon fiber bodies, closed wheeled, and also unlimited for the most part.

DIRT'S FOR RACING, PRERUNNERS ARE FOR GETTING THERE!

H.O.R.E.
Hemet Off-Road Enthusiests
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
Posts
22,828
Reaction
5
Lets see- comparing apples and monkeys... I'll try!
Class 1 would most likely be Formula 1. Both are fairly unlimited(although F1 has come out with some rules changes this year to reign in costs, like active suspension) but Offroad is probably the most open type of racing in teh unlimited classes in any form of motorsport except may Hydroplane racing. Trophy truck is in kinda the same ballpark. I would equate class 1 and TT to the old unlimited WRC Class 3 or group B cars, basically a body shell on teh most wild thing money can imagine.

Nascar would be more like class 10. The teams are open to develop chassis(with some restrictions, but the restrictions don't seem to hamper performance too much) but have some very strict Aero packages and engine rules that limit HP.

Busch would be like a 10 car with a 1600 motor. It is basically a cup car with a smaller HP rating due to Carb size and Fuel requirements(compression and pump gas)

Indy Cars would be like class 7 open. Everyone runs the same basic suspension set-up, but they must run a normally aspirated (and I believe based on a american production style block, and I think it has tobe pushrod) V8. Hp isn't as huge and the money isn't there to run away with the class. The idea is to promote american ideals and drivers.

Protruck would be the IMCA class. The chassis rules are very limited and the engine rules are almost identical to protruck. The class winners depend on set-up and driver skill, not who spends teh most money.

For class 9, I would go with street Stock. It is a class that allows the local guy go race for about as much money as it takes to build a 9 car. It is kinda the everyone class. Lots of people race it because it won't send you to the poor farm, there is a lot of support from other racers, and the majority of th eracers are doing it for fun, the money and points are secondary.

Class 11 would have to be teh Bombers or Hornets or whatever else the local low budget class is called at any particular track. These are basically a stock car with safety items. 99% of them have to run the stock drivetrain, the horn still has to work and so does the radio. No race parts, just roll cages. Even an 11 car is more sophisticated than most of these classes as far as parts and build up are concerned, but these are the "I'm gonna make my car into a race car in my backyard" folks like most 11 people are.

Martin

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
Posts
10,914
Reaction
296
Well done.

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.barneysprecision.com/fabproducts.htm> Fab Parts</A>
 

DSRacing

Mini Metal MOD
Posts
3,456
Reaction
360
I know there are other classes sanctioned by NSACAR, but the question posed was regarding just Busch and Winston Cup. Which is why I phrased my response as only simplistic regarding the explanations. I should have said Busch is where drivers begin making a name for themselves prior to moving to Winston cup. I don't know of any drivers as popular as Busch or WC driving in the lower classes, but I don't follow it that closely.

As far as CART switching to NA engines, they changed their minds in Sept. of last year. Ford will be building a spec turbo engine based on an evolution of their latest 2.65L XF engine from 2002, and will lease them to teams until the end of 2004. I believe the reason was the development time for the NA engines fell behind due to CART waiting until the last minute to approve the NA format, and by then Honda and Toyota had gone to the IRL. The other reason was cost to the teams. 1 million a year per car for the spec engine, as opposed to 3 to 4 million a year per car for NA.
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
Posts
22,828
Reaction
5
Busch is no longerthe stepping stone class the Winston, the truck class has become that step. The reason is the more powerful engineas found in the trucks and the chassis similiarities between the 2. There are still driver that go from the Busch series up, but not like it used to be. So in regards to what compared to what...Busch would be like protruck and Winston would be like class 10.

If your gonna go, go BIG
 
Top