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Doubt about LOORRS and LucasOilTV

putorkdforbaskat

Well-Known Member
I think I saw Jim Beaver saying "There isn’t anything to be bought unless someone want to negotiate to buy 3 race tracks and real estate" and he's pretty sure none are for sale." somewhere on the internet. Saying its kinda "all independent" , u'know
So no CORRS back for 2020 =[
So much potential. IMO it is so unfair having Nascar with all the glory while short course is WAY much better haha. Same for Indycar vs World of Outlaws =P
 

acers

Well-Known Member
This all worries me. If Lucas is not going to be involved in the midwest are we back to square 1. I thought it was starting to work and going to be 1 series in 2021
 

Wisc SC

Member
Unsettling to hear talk of Midwest short course ownership changes again. I was at the 50th Crandon for 6 days (got home this morning) and it was absolutely amazing. I've been going to Crandon spring and fall for about 10 years as well as Bark River pretty regularly. Heard rumor that Crandon and Lucas are entangled in a lawsuit about who runs the shows on race day and other issues so LOORRS pulling out wouldn't be surprising. Hopefully it all works out and we can run drama-free for a few years. Was interesting to see that with the exception of Jerret Brooks (who was noticeably faster than the Midwest 410ci Pro2s as well as the full power West Pro2s), the Midwest Pro2s could hang with and in many cases stay in front of the West Coast full-power motors. Rob Mac had a post that said the lap times between the 410s and the uncorked Pro2s are "worth a look"... even with bumper to bumper restarts he and a few other West coast Pro2s could not get past the 410s. Jeremy McGrath ran a 410 engine all weekend and he finished 3rd in the cup race behind Keegan Kincaid (another 410) and winner RJ in a Pro4. Hearing West Coast will adopt 410 / DOT rules for 2021 to allow some teams to "use up" current inventory of a full-race motors.
 

ragracin

Well-Known Member
No need to worry. The west teams will go broke trying to travel to the Midwest and the Midwest teams cannot afford to travel west for all the western races. Not enough money. If you looked around at Crandon this weekend, not much for Lucas Oil banners. By looking at things, you’d never know it was a Lucas Oil race and I’m talking about Saturday. The tracks do their own tv production from what I’ve heard. Don’t be surprised if you see Lucas not be involved in the Midwest. The tracks have been running under a Lucas Oil “League” but Lucas has not really been involved from what people were saying this weekend. Having one big series......no. Maybe McGrath will run Midwest next year seems how he’s set up and did so good this weekend. It would be great to see Kyle Leduc run Midwest if he is living in Alabama. A few people were speculating that maybe Kyle Leduc might repaint the truck for next year with some blue and a Red Bull on the side. To be clear, this is just a Crandon late night pits speculation. It would be cool to see him give Greaves a challenge. It’s always fun to here the crazy talk.
 

acers

Well-Known Member
No need to worry. The west teams will go broke trying to travel to the Midwest and the Midwest teams cannot afford to travel west for all the western races. Not enough money. If you looked around at Crandon this weekend, not much for Lucas Oil banners. By looking at things, you’d never know it was a Lucas Oil race and I’m talking about Saturday. The tracks do their own tv production from what I’ve heard. Don’t be surprised if you see Lucas not be involved in the Midwest. The tracks have been running under a Lucas Oil “League” but Lucas has not really been involved from what people were saying this weekend. Having one big series......no. Maybe McGrath will run Midwest next year seems how he’s set up and did so good this weekend. It would be great to see Kyle Leduc run Midwest if he is living in Alabama. A few people were speculating that maybe Kyle Leduc might repaint the truck for next year with some blue and a Red Bull on the side. To be clear, this is just a Crandon late night pits speculation. It would be cool to see him give Greaves a challenge. It’s always fun to here the crazy talk.
If Lucas pulls out we as fans lose.as a fan I want the west coast teams coming and do not want to go back to them not coming. Starting to wonder if it’s the Midwest tracks that are the problem
 

afortune46

Well-Known Member
Ill say this ... This weekend was the WORST ran race I have ever been a part of - it has nothing to do with Crandon but everything to do with Lucas/USAC.

Between re stacking in the wrong order on the points day (that hosed multiple people that were on the bubble for positions) to doing it AGAIN on the cup day, to Bill Smith from lucas allegedly saying he didn't give a **** (or so we were told - then we were told to not argue with him or we would be removed from competition) We were better off with Torc/Usac-Jason Smith and Kyle Robbins running the show. Even the contact on the track that wasn't Wheel to wheel/door to door in the truck races that should have been called wasn't called. 6 laps for a race due to "tv time" is pathetic , we ran 14 laps with TORC, and unless you had a boat load of cautions they kept your laps up - We aren't a tv show , its a race series first. Classes shouldn't have been set in place by their points especially with all the west coast guys there - there was practice data they could have used for seeding but again - its easier to be lazy and go off points which causes an unnecessary amount of carnage trying to work through the field that some of them shouldn't be in a pro class.

West coast teams will continue to come out for the cup, and they'll race the midwest provided the rules are the same (which isn't a difficult thing to accomplish at the rate we are going) But the attitude towards the midwest by Lucas officials, The cost the tracks have to pay lucas to have their officials there, and the not following their own race procedures all are detremental to the future. Working both sides of the fence over the years I know there will be bad calls but this was pathetic and embarassing that a organization such as Lucas would be this sloppy.
 

Pro4orNothing

Active Member
No need to worry. The west teams will go broke trying to travel to the Midwest and the Midwest teams cannot afford to travel west for all the western races. Not enough money. If you looked around at Crandon this weekend, not much for Lucas Oil banners. By looking at things, you’d never know it was a Lucas Oil race and I’m talking about Saturday. The tracks do their own tv production from what I’ve heard. Don’t be surprised if you see Lucas not be involved in the Midwest. The tracks have been running under a Lucas Oil “League” but Lucas has not really been involved from what people were saying this weekend. Having one big series......no. Maybe McGrath will run Midwest next year seems how he’s set up and did so good this weekend. It would be great to see Kyle Leduc run Midwest if he is living in Alabama. A few people were speculating that maybe Kyle Leduc might repaint the truck for next year with some blue and a Red Bull on the side. To be clear, this is just a Crandon late night pits speculation. It would be cool to see him give Greaves a challenge. It’s always fun to here the crazy talk.
McGrath sounded in the podcast he did with Steve Matthes (Motocross/Supercross reporter) pre-Crandon that he’s done chasing points championships in short course...but with the weekend he had and only 4 race weekends for now, it’d be cool to see him race against Keegan, Kleiman, and Carlson in Pro2.

LeDuc in a Red Bull truck would be an interesting prospect. I doubt he runs the Midwest full-time unless we have one national series...or Red Bull/Monster/whoever pay him enough to make a living off of it.

It’ll be an interesting offseason, that’s for sure. For unity’s sake, it’d be nice to have Lucas involved in the midwest...the rumor I heard this weekend was that the ball is in Lucas’ court as far as ownership goes. But the rumored buyer affiliated with USAC is interested if the Lucas deal goes sideways.
 

stephenrjking

Well-Known Member
If Lucas pulls out we as fans lose.as a fan I want the west coast teams coming and do not want to go back to them not coming. Starting to wonder if it’s the Midwest tracks that are the problem
“Problem” is a pretty big word. We know that the tracks pull weight; their decision to pull out of TORC is what killed that “series.”

But it’s not like we’re talking about mega-millionaire business moguls running these things. The tracks appear to be determined to maintain a sustainable business model, and what that means in practice is making sure they keep the sportsman racers, whose family and friends make up a substantial portion of the ticket-buying public, happy.

In practice that means that growth strategies may get shortchanged, but the existing niche remains healthy.

Whether the tracks are the factor here (again, we don’t know what, if anything, is happening, and Lucas had pretty minimal involvement other than a name on the website and the officiating stuff discussed in this thread) remains to be seen.

I know that I am skeptical that a national series is possible right now. I really want a united race in Wheatland to work, and was extremely disappointed in the cancellation. Everything about Crandon this weekend was awesome, of course. But going National is a different animal entirely and a lot of teams are just getting by with the dollars they have.

Look at Pro Lite: there aren’t a lot of sponsor dollars there and most guys in the field are barely able to afford testing laps. Even Keegan Kincaid, who is as fast as anyone in the sport, had a couple of down years after Traxxas pulled out and he didn’t have the money to test his equipment. These guys don’t have the cash, and they don’t have the people (guys who have to take vacation time to work the races) to go across country a whole bunch.

So having two regional series that play in the same place twice a year seems more realistic.

I just hope they can play nice.
 

Pro4orNothing

Active Member
Two "regional" series that collaborate/share a common rulebook, don't schedule races on top of one another, and hold the annual "combine" event at Fall Crandon makes the most sense IMO. I'm still holding out hope that a single, national tour could happen some day, but the more I think about it, there's too many stakeholders (as previously mentioned) that need to be taken care of differently in each region to have it make sense, short-term.

Lucas' "own" series isn't out west isn't exactly thriving either, so I couldn't totally blamed them if they backed off in the midwest. They'd almost be best served focusing on their "core" base as the Midwest has done, rather than try to expand to new markets when the money for the teams to do so just isn't there.
 

Jimmy8

Well-Known Member
“I think I saw Jim Beaver saying "There isn’t anything to be bought unless someone want to negotiate to buy 3 race tracks and real estate" and he's pretty sure none are for sale." somewhere on the internet.”

I did say that on Twitter. Flannery’s have owned Crandon for 50 years and the track will most likely never be sold to anyone outside of the family, Bark River is owned by the Lion’s Club and has been for 45 years, and ERX is owned by the Carlson’s and another investor and is much larger than just off-road. Out of the 3, I could see ERX for sale as they are businessmen, but it would take a lot. All that being said, it’s impossible to “buy the midwest” as all operate independently and now all handle their own media/marketing. Simply not a lot to buy. Even Dirt City is owned by a group of racers to my understanding.
 

450grl

Well-Known Member
Two "regional" series that collaborate/share a common rulebook, don't schedule races on top of one another, and hold the annual "combine" event at Fall Crandon makes the most sense IMO.
THIS....this is what I'm hoping for. This gives us the chance to race both series if we want to run more races that in our own part of the country, or just the one we choose that is closest to home. Non-conflicting dates is key to allowing racers to be able to be more fluid between the two series - rules similarity is the 2nd most important factor. If they can manage to do these two things, the racers can work things out with their sponsors and their budgets. One or two combined races would also be amazing - gives everyone a chance to race against different competition and develop more as a driver.
 

sb4pro

Well-Known Member
I kind of agree with Corry and Pro4 , have 2 separate regional series but with ONE rule book . Where I differ a lil bit is . Keep the 410 rule for p2 , make p4 unlimited and ( I know this might hurt ) but go back to 4 cylinders for Prolite . As for the sportsman classes keep those as is using each ones respective rule books ( Lucas oil regional for west coast and MORR for the Midwest ) . Also like the idea of 2 combo races , keep Crandon as the Midwest combo and maybe do Chandler or Sparks for the West one so it’s not TOO bad for travel . The BIGGEST snag will be making up scheduling .
 

dbq61537

Well-Known Member
I kind of agree with Corry and Pro4 , have 2 separate regional series but with ONE rule book . Where I differ a lil bit is . Keep the 410 rule for p2 , make p4 unlimited and ( I know this might hurt ) but go back to 4 cylinders for Prolite . As for the sportsman classes keep those as is using each ones respective rule books ( Lucas oil regional for west coast and MORR for the Midwest ) . Also like the idea of 2 combo races , keep Crandon as the Midwest combo and maybe do Chandler or Sparks for the West one so it’s not TOO bad for travel . The BIGGEST snag will be making up scheduling .
I like a couple of your ideas involving the Pro Classes.

But instead of 4cyl, for ProLite...how about...a full stock production V6? Full fuel injection, normally aspirated engine, production engine available at any dealership parts counter, or salvage yard.

The V6 used in the Nissan Frontier, has been in Production, virtually unchanged for nearly two decades. Toyota, has been using their engine, for near to anything you can think of. The Ford is readily available...as is the Chevy...at any Salvage yard in town.

Am I crazy?
 

sb4pro

Well-Known Member
I like a couple of your ideas involving the Pro Classes.

But instead of 4cyl, for ProLite...how about...a full stock production V6? Full fuel injection, normally aspirated engine, production engine available at any dealership parts counter, or salvage yard.

The V6 used in the Nissan Frontier, has been in Production, virtually unchanged for nearly two decades. Toyota, has been using their engine, for near to anything you can think of. The Ford is readily available...as is the Chevy...at any Salvage yard in town.

Am I crazy?
Actually like THAT idea way better . Would REALLY cut down the costs .
 

Steve_Sourapas

Well-Known Member
Saw a quote for a Spec Pro 2 engine this weekend in Crandon for $ 58K. Damn I guess in some people's eyes that's affordable. Just my two cents but taking the LS3's out of Pro Lite is a bad idea as they are actually fun to watch with power and torque and as for the cost I would think it's cheaper.
 

ragracin

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure about prolite cost, but they were great to watch at Crandon. They looked just as fast as the pro 2’s for the most part. Jarrett Brooks looked like he was riding a rocket.
 

CYS Motorsports

Well-Known Member
Saw a quote for a Spec Pro 2 engine this weekend in Crandon for $ 58K. Damn I guess in some people's eyes that's affordable. Just my two cents but taking the LS3's out of Pro Lite is a bad idea as they are actually fun to watch with power and torque and as for the cost I would think it's cheaper.
Yeah some engine builders are needlessly cranking up the prices. You can build a real good Spec Pro 2 motor in the neighborhood of $20k.

Some guys are starting to use fuel injection on the spec motors, that jacks the price up real fast. They should just keep the carb.
 

illmattic86

Member
From talking with friends who are racers in the sportsman division, Lucas ran the races way better last year than USAC did this year. USAC is too inconsistent with calls and do not seem to know how to handle the races properly. Did anyone see they started the Pro 4's with a Pro 2 dead on the front straight in the Cup race?? Maybe thats on Crandon and not USAC, but scary as hell. As far as rules, they really need to just be the same across the board for this to work.

Pro4: Same as they are, but possibly reign in some of the cost in certain areas, IDK. Also look at testing a move to DOT tires. Ross Hoek has been running them for a couple years, but I would like to see faster trucks run them like Leduc, Menzies, Greaves etc. to know if it could work.

Pro2: 410 Motor and DOT tires across the both series. Let the advantage come from who wants to spend on the EFI vs Carb and DRIVING.

Pro Lite: LOORS LS3 motor across both series. One set price, everyone has the same set up. Let it come down to the drivers. 4 cylinders need to be modified heavily to get the speeds back and are unreliable. V6 motors would make more power, but there arent any good options, and again RELIABILITY. Those Nissan V6 motors are junk. I think the chassis rules are all the same now too between the two but that was a big issue before too. This class is pretty good as is, but There was a clear difference compared to the LS motor trucks and the others with older engine packages.
 
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