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Doubt about LOORRS and LucasOilTV

acers

Well-Known Member
Lucas is out... they called the tracks last night and told them. Then the tracks have called another motorsports promotional group and a plan is being put into motion (as I mentioned earlier in this thread)

It will be good for the sport if it comes to fruition - and if they do what they say they're doing with the rules it will allow for the west coast to come midwest druing the summer break without heartburn.
But if Lucas is not involved will teams from the west come.Another Torc fight between the two. Hopefully it all works
 

afortune46

Well-Known Member
But if Lucas is not involved will teams from the west come.Another Torc fight between the two. Hopefully it all works
My personal hope is yes, I mean the group I am aware of is really racer oriented , They want to give opprotunities to the west coast guys, and would hope that the midwest folks could run west coast if wanted without headache. The biggest thing is if you are going to run lucas rules, I hope Lucas will allow them to use the rule book. It will only allow for unification even if its two separate entities. time will tell. I can tell you that the new group that is looking to take this on IS looking at the bigger picture and not just midwest. They know it has alot of potential if you allow for the racers to cross over to each side of the states.
 

dbq61537

Well-Known Member
Lucas is out... they called the tracks last night and told them. Then the tracks have called another motorsports promotional group and a plan is being put into motion (as I mentioned earlier in this thread)

It will be good for the sport if it comes to fruition - and if they do what they say they're doing with the rules it will allow for the west coast to come midwest druing the summer break without heartburn.
This might be best for everyone involved.

Most of the West Coast guys didn’t want to come East, unless points were involved.

The rules could be near to identical still. The 410 engine Package (Pro2), looks, destined for prime time in the West. But that Lucas Engine package, for ProLite, is just not going to happen out, here. And the other classes (Pro4, UTV Stock, and UTV Mod), will pretty much still cross over.

It’s all going to come down to who the new partner is. They may want to, strike their own path...hopefully with ProLite...

I for one, find this to be, a better, new beginning. Hopefully the big guns of this partnership, will be monitoring, what are saying, and taking it into consideration.
 

ragracin

Well-Known Member
I was listening to a conversation at fall run about the people who own Monster Jam want into short course. I don’t know if it’s the same people but they were referring to FELD a lot in the conversation. It sounded like their was people majorly interested in coming in and bringing in some sponsors. I know zero about Monster Jam so I was not familiar with some of the names. It was a decent source that I was talking to but then again after the last 10 years of rumors in short course, I have a hard time believing anything I hear.
 

sb4pro

Well-Known Member
I was listening to a conversation at fall run about the people who own Monster Jam want into short course. I don’t know if it’s the same people but they were referring to FELD a lot in the conversation. It sounded like their was people majorly interested in coming in and bringing in some sponsors. I know zero about Monster Jam so I was not familiar with some of the names. It was a decent source that I was talking to but then again after the last 10 years of rumors in short course, I have a hard time believing anything I hear.
If it’s true that would be a great fit if I remember right they do have some off-road experience . Weren’t they the ones who did the stadium series after Mickey ?
 

dbq61537

Well-Known Member
I was listening to a conversation at fall run about the people who own Monster Jam want into short course. I don’t know if it’s the same people but they were referring to FELD a lot in the conversation. It sounded like their was people majorly interested in coming in and bringing in some sponsors. I know zero about Monster Jam so I was not familiar with some of the names. It was a decent source that I was talking to but then again after the last 10 years of rumors in short course, I have a hard time believing anything I hear.
I hope there’s some truth, to this...FELD knows how to put on, not just a Motorsports event, but a full on Entertainment Experience. They’ve been doing this for years, with both, Monster Jam and Monster Energy SuperCross.

They keep the event moving, and the fans entertained...all while keeping it fun for all ages...and affordable for families.
 

Wisc SC

Member
I will never disagree with the quality of racing and entertainment provided by the sportsman races. I think it's awesome that the little guys can go out and race on the same track, then same weekend, even the same day as the pro guys. There are not many other forms of motorsport that allows for that.

I only propose a split between sportsman and pro class events to try and form a solution to the scheduling mess that happened over the 50th. But then again, the 50th was most likely a one time big event and would probably not bring the same type of issues for another 10-25 years until the next big event occurs. So it might only be a solution to a one time problem that may never happen again. If it does become a regularly occurring problem, then something will have to change in scheduling, otherwise we will all still have the same complaints.

I still stand by my opinions on allowing more track time for the pro racers to tune their trucks for race time, and allow for a bit less stressful of an event for the track workers and race directors. I also stand by my thoughts that the grandstands would still be filled on a "pro only" weekend/day without the sportsman racers/families/friends there to help fill them, I believe the majority of those people would still make time to attend the pro only events as fans.
I've been attending both Crandon weekends for about 10 years and typically make Bark River as well. I've never been to a West Coast Pro-Only race but I'm not sure Crandon, Bark River, ERX would draw the crowds they do to watch a total of perhaps 2-3 hours of actual action race action over an entire weekend if it were only Pro classes.
 

Pro4orNothing

Active Member
Hard to admit, but agreed that the split is for the best...the needs of both groups are too different. Unify on a rulebook (or as close as you can), cooperate on schedules, and let’s go racing.

The 4-letter group that I heard was interested in the midwest wasn’t Feld, but that’d be an interesting prospect. Both groups have potential to bring some much needed dollars to the region...if it means better purses and/or sponsorships for the teams, then this could be a blessing in disguise. Time will tell...
 

cofferjl

New Member
I was listening to a conversation at fall run about the people who own Monster Jam want into short course. I don’t know if it’s the same people but they were referring to FELD a lot in the conversation. It sounded like their was people majorly interested in coming in and bringing in some sponsors. I know zero about Monster Jam so I was not familiar with some of the names. It was a decent source that I was talking to but then again after the last 10 years of rumors in short course, I have a hard time believing anything I hear.
If this is true I think that it may ultimately be a mistake. Here is the reason that I say that. I grew up with my dad and his friends being around/race officials within much of the monster truck industry. They started wheeling with Bob Chandler back in the late 70's before Bigfoot was Bigfoot. In the 90's they helped officiate in the PENDA Points series for monster truck racing. At that time the major promoter was USHRA motorsports, which from what I remember was a quality organization at the time. They were bought out by Pace motorsports I believe and then three or four other buyouts before Feld. This is when Bigfoot stopped competing in Pace/Feld events. The dispute was Pace told Bob that he could not video his truck (Bigfoot) at their events and sell the footage on VHS or DVD or use it for R&D. Pace wanted to purchase the Bigfoot brand much like they would later do with the Grave Digger truck. Around this same time was when Pace became Monster Jam and was purchased by Feld. The rights to the merchandise is what makes the money, think about all of the toys that are sold that have the Monster Jam brand. This is why most of the trucks you see are owned by Feld, with Feld promoting the drivers that they think will sell the most merchandise. They have also been accused of and documented removing social media comments from fans that are seen as being critical of Monster Jam even if no terms of service were violated. So if Feld is wanting in I personally would be cautious, I would think that the power struggle would be worse than Lucas Oil which seems to be what caused the dissolution of the midwest league. If they would stay out of the racing and just promote the race, I think it could be an ok thing. However, I could see a scenario where they want to cut the sportsman classes and then stack the pro classes with trucks/buggies/utvs they own. I believe that they already have a facility that they build/fabricate many of their own monster trucks, so they could do the same with other platforms.
Or all of this Feld talk is just a load of nonsense. I would hope for the latter. I believe that the TNN youtube clip was from the Pace era but not sure.
I hope this picture will give me some credibility and you don't think I'm making stuff up.
bigfoot.jpg
 

freshwillie

Well-Known Member
maybe M.O.R.R. will step up. being ran by a driver organization would be chaotic at times but could be our best bet. instead of usac, morr, the track, and lucas we could have just M.O.R.R. and the track. basically go back to a S.O.D.A. type organization. the tracks did a great job with live stream coverage. M.O.R.R. can handle all the other BS. it should have a very positive effect on our cost to race and payback.
 

acers

Well-Known Member
Hard to admit, but agreed that the split is for the best...the needs of both groups are too different. Unify on a rulebook (or as close as you can), cooperate on schedules, and let’s go racing.

The 4-letter group that I heard was interested in the midwest wasn’t Feld, but that’d be an interesting prospect. Both groups have potential to bring some much needed dollars to the region...if it means better purses and/or sponsorships for the teams, then this could be a blessing in disguise. Time will tell...
But is Lucas going to be willing to unify rules if the midwest is not part of Lucas. Both have shortage of pro4s so would be nice to work with each other to have more trucks
 

ME Motorsports

Well-Known Member
The biggest problem in the Midwest is a lack of big name sponsors to support the series. Until that happens it will just be more of the same. New ownership every two years or less. If you look back at the early days of TORC they had Amsoil, Ram Trucks, KMC Wheels, Oakley, Red Bull and TRAXXAS just to name a few. The series (Whatever the new name is) has to find a way to bring back big name sponsors like these that are willing to support the series. In the end it all comes down to Money.
 

dbq61537

Well-Known Member
The biggest problem in the Midwest is a lack of big name sponsors to support the series. Until that happens it will just be more of the same. New ownership every two years or less. If you look back at the early days of TORC they had Amsoil, Ram Trucks, KMC Wheels, Oakley, Red Bull and TRAXXAS just to name a few. The series (Whatever the new name is) has to find a way to bring back big name sponsors like these that are willing to support the series. In the end it all comes down to Money.
Great point. But even through it all, the fans still came to events. If a “player” with a pretty good “Contacts” list shows up, the sponsors will see the full grandstand, and sign up.

One of the best ways to get the money to flow again...and this won’t be popular with many...will involve the location of events. Like it or not, many of the MidWest event location, are...how do I gently say this...are in the middle of “No Where”, as far as Sponsors are concerned.

West Coast events, are closer to civilization, than many, out here in
Middle America, realize. Tracks in Joliet (Route 66), and Gateway (across the Mississippi from St Louis), are easy to get to, for companies, to do at the track Hospitality, for clients, and fan special promotion programs.

Please take no offense...Crandon fans...while the Track has the history of being the birthplace of Short Course...fans, Racers, love it...while the racing is amazing...it’s in the middle of nowhere.

If you where to ask, Marketing executives, from any of the companies, who make the Greater Chicago area, home to their: main, regional, time zone, divisional, etc...head quarters... Where is Crandon International Off Road Raceway? You would get a dumbfounded look, of confusion. If you ask the same ones this question...Where is Route 66 Raceway? They could tell you the address, phone number, which gate to use, and when the next event is.

We need at least one event weekend, in a major market...but not on Mother’s Day Weekend!

Pretty much every Lucas West Event, is within 50-60 miles of a Major Metro market.
 

cjmay13

Active Member
So what happened with the races in Chicago? Attendance seemed like it was getting better every year........ Did Nascar kind of put the brakes on that with a lot of their guys going over there to watch the races instead of staying over at the big track???
 

Michael Cohen

Well-Known Member
At what point should there be separate weekends for pro races and sportsman races?

It sounds to me like there was too much to do in too little time. I would say it's probably time to have the sportsman classes run on a different weekend, same as they do out west with the LOORRS regional events. Leave the big "National" weekends to the pro classes and have some breathing room and time to let everyone get their laps in, without having to cut other races laps down.
NEVER for either of the Crandon events or any of the other Midwest racers IMO. Having EVERYONE competing (including the GOBS) is what those events are all about with the fans, teams, and racers.
 

dbq61537

Well-Known Member
So what happened with the races in Chicago? Attendance seemed like it was getting better every year........ Did Nascar kind of put the brakes on that with a lot of their guys going over there to watch the races instead of staying over at the big track???
Outside of the Mothers Day weekend Debacle...ChiTown always had a great crowd.

They had a race nearly every year of TORC...but one, and it almost killed the event.

Rumor has it...that the year in particular...Amsoil was the series presenting sponsor...and the Route 66 Track/DragStrip, had Lucas Oil Sponsorship. Hard to confirm but, reports had Lucas Oil pulling rank, and telling the Track, it couldn’t have an Amsoil sponsored series, race at a track, they were sponsoring. (Lucas had a Blanket deal with the ISC for signage at all their tracks).

This was...just...a rumor, but is generally accepted, as the reason, there wasn’t an event that year.
 

havahockey

Flipper
Everyone is assuming that Lucas Oil just gave the middle finger to the midwest and said see ya. Two years ago when the tracks broke away from TORC and Lucas Oil came in to help everyone was singing praise. Now everyone is saying they abandoned them, from my understanding it wasn't just Lucas's decision to not be involved next year.
 

afortune46

Well-Known Member
The biggest problem in the Midwest is a lack of big name sponsors to support the series. Until that happens it will just be more of the same. New ownership every two years or less. If you look back at the early days of TORC they had Amsoil, Ram Trucks, KMC Wheels, Oakley, Red Bull and TRAXXAS just to name a few. The series (Whatever the new name is) has to find a way to bring back big name sponsors like these that are willing to support the series. In the end it all comes down to Money.
The body that I am aware of has some big name sponsors, and it wouldnt be hard to get the UTV oem's in which regardless if you like the "golf carts" or not they bring alot of finacial backing with them.

So what happened with the races in Chicago? Attendance seemed like it was getting better every year........ Did Nascar kind of put the brakes on that with a lot of their guys going over there to watch the races instead of staying over at the big track???
2017 there was no one in attendance there with TORC. It was a tough pill to swallow.

Everyone is assuming that Lucas Oil just gave the middle finger to the midwest and said see ya. Two years ago when the tracks broke away from TORC and Lucas Oil came in to help everyone was singing praise. Now everyone is saying they abandoned them, from my understanding it wasn't just Lucas's decision to not be involved next year.
Lucas charged the tracks an obsurd about of money for them to come in full support , the tracks did it in 2018 and had a substantial loss that could have quickly taken 3 tracks to two or possibly one. So they tried working out a deal with Lucas, they use their promotional body , USAC did the insurance, race ops, scoring etc - And quickly the tracks became the bastard children of lucas more so then the year previous, and I think we got the B squad for race ops from USAC.

Lucas in 2018 was far from friendly/Helpful - you'd go to tech , crew sign in/registration and you could tell they didn't want to be there, The only friendly ones I delt with in the midwest was Brian Axup , and Carlos Perez. When we went to lucas west for Glen Helen and Chandler the staff didnt want to say much about what was where and what to do , it was a different atmosphere for sure.
 

stephenrjking

Well-Known Member
I don't think this is a situation where people think that Lucas is giving the Midwest a terrible deal. Unless there's some behind-the-scenes stuff I'm not aware of (very possible! This thread is the first I'd heard that TORC wanted to shut down Pro-4!) it seems to me that the midwest tracks broke away from TORC due to "differences" and Lucas made the effort to support the series. It has been established, for example, that they were respectful of the Amsoil branding that still existed at Crandon when they ran the Cup race.

And there was a legit effort at a "unification" race at Wheatland, the (reasonable) cancellation of which remains a tremendous disappointment.

But "willing to pitch in" and "giving it a shot" is not the same as "building a sustainable model for the long term." Obviously, as this thread has brought out, there have been some issues. I don't think we can really fault people for the issues, because the needs of the stakeholders are different.

It's not all doom and gloom. Some questions about the rules are questions that I perceive to be answered already. Lucas has committed to the "Midwest" Pro 2 package after a grace period; Pro 4 remains compatible until someone changes their rules. Pro Light is a mess but that was the case before anyway, and if the two "national" guys decline to race in the Midwest with the Lucas exit, that might actually encourage a couple of guys who couldn't compete with them (Polvoorde and Beat were multiple seconds per lap faster than everyone else, at no time was any other driver a threat to win) to stick in the series.

Until a sponsor and an organization of some kind is announced, though, it's a troubling time. I was hopeful that the enormous success of Crandon-50 would be a springboard to, at least, modest growth; a unification race in Wheatland would be a great mid-summer TV product to sell the sport in a relatively uncrowded tv slot, as well. Instead, it's back to square one.

And as long as square one keeps getting this kind of traffic, the Midwest tracks are absolutely doing the right thing to maintain the strength of the sportsman classes. Crandon, Bark River, and ERX will all have reasonably good crowds next year because the sportsman classes bring people with them. It carves out a solid niche that allows the sport to weather some trying times.
 

CYS Motorsports

Well-Known Member
Outside of the Mothers Day weekend Debacle...ChiTown always had a great crowd.

They had a race nearly every year of TORC...but one, and it almost killed the event.

Rumor has it...that the year in particular...Amsoil was the series presenting sponsor...and the Route 66 Track/DragStrip, had Lucas Oil Sponsorship. Hard to confirm but, reports had Lucas Oil pulling rank, and telling the Track, it couldn’t have an Amsoil sponsored series, race at a track, they were sponsoring. (Lucas had a Blanket deal with the ISC for signage at all their tracks).

This was...just...a rumor, but is generally accepted, as the reason, there wasn’t an event that year.
This is 100% factual.

Great point. But even through it all, the fans still came to events. If a “player” with a pretty good “Contacts” list shows up, the sponsors will see the full grandstand, and sign up.

One of the best ways to get the money to flow again...and this won’t be popular with many...will involve the location of events. Like it or not, many of the MidWest event location, are...how do I gently say this...are in the middle of “No Where”, as far as Sponsors are concerned.

West Coast events, are closer to civilization, than many, out here in
Middle America, realize. Tracks in Joliet (Route 66), and Gateway (across the Mississippi from St Louis), are easy to get to, for companies, to do at the track Hospitality, for clients, and fan special promotion programs.

Please take no offense...Crandon fans...while the Track has the history of being the birthplace of Short Course...fans, Racers, love it...while the racing is amazing...it’s in the middle of nowhere.

If you where to ask, Marketing executives, from any of the companies, who make the Greater Chicago area, home to their: main, regional, time zone, divisional, etc...head quarters... Where is Crandon International Off Road Raceway? You would get a dumbfounded look, of confusion. If you ask the same ones this question...Where is Route 66 Raceway? They could tell you the address, phone number, which gate to use, and when the next event is.

We need at least one event weekend, in a major market...but not on Mother’s Day Weekend!

Pretty much every Lucas West Event, is within 50-60 miles of a Major Metro market.
This post is value added. Chicago was killing it in terms of attendance up until we stopped in 2015. It was well advertised, they were pulling in large numbers of trucks, even from the west coast (sponsors wanting exposure in Chicago? CRAZY), they would pull celebrity cameos like Pastrana, James Stewart, Kyle Busch, etc. and generally it was an awesome event.

The problem with TORC was they were dropping new events everywhere, but there was a general lack of advertisement. When we went back to Chicago in 2016, there was virtually no advertisement, other than social media. (side note, in 2017 I went to Red Bud for the MX race on the 4th of July, guy I was sitting next to was telling me how he missed going to watch short course in Chicago, him and about 10 buddies went every year up until 2015. I told him that we'd been racing there again for the past 2 years!).

Sure the social media thing is hot, but old fashioned advertising (radio, billboards, etc) still has plenty of merit. For example, at Dirt City this year, there were SEVERAL billboards posted along the expressways, some almost 100 miles from the track. And in it's first year, the hill was packed! (for a lowly sportsman event :rolleyes:)

Hopefully the new owners or whatever role they call it, will get back to branching out in the higher population centers of the midwest, and try building up the brand once again. I'm tired of off road being called "the best kept secret in racing," we need to show the public and potential sponsors this sport has value.
 
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