Economy Poll

Is Bush to blame?

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 30.8%
  • No

    Votes: 81 69.2%

  • Total voters
    117

DEZERTSUB

Straw Man
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That's a big NEGATIVE.
:mad:

Sick and tired of everyone blaming the President.....
 

Prerunin554

Well-Known Member
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The dip in the economy (in my eyes) is because the US is in a war. Anytime there is a war, there is a recession. And tracing back to the man who decided that the US needed to go to war is in fact Pres. Bush. I will tell ya, I do like him more than the other options we had durring our last elections.
 

HDRA1

The Godfather
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NAFTA clinton and eco-nazi's imo
 

DOG ON

RDC's illegal immigrant
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I think it was my fault......I keep buying cheap azz tools in HF :)
 

prerunner1499

Well-Known Member
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Bush does not have JACK CRAP to do with the economy. Presidential policy does not run the economy. Congress, Senate and the Federal Reserve have more to do with the economy that any president could ever influence.
Negative! ZIP NODDA NUTHIN!
The economic slump is caused by people living beyond their means, plain and simple. Refinancing their way into the american dream, with bigger better cars, houses, and the 100k prerunners. Then they can't afford these payments due to their adjustable rate that was such a good deal back when they first got is 2-3 years ago. I saw this coming in early 2005.

This all started right after the dot.bomb in 2000 when investors shifted from tech to real estate backed investing. This led insurance companies and other big investors who buy heavily in mortgage backed securities to shift as well. The mortgage industry responded by relaxing lending guidelines alot, too much infact. From 2003 to 2007 darn near anyone with a job could buy a home. Ya, Joe blow with a 15$ an hour job and 550 credit bought a home. First and second mortgage, 100% financing. Home values were rising, too fast,, but did anyone care, NOPE. We were all fat and happy. Then the first wave of adj rates hit in 2005, people just refi'd their way out of those. Then early 2007, in fall of 2007 the rest hit but the loan programs that were available to them were all gone now. Those people could not refi their way out of the debt that they had incurred over the last 3-5 years. That was also was when investors stopped buying "mortgage paper" on wall street and the bottom dropped out of the feeding trough we all know as the mortgage industry. THATS WHAT CAUSED THE ECONIMIC SLUMP!

Think about it, what lines of business relied on the mortgage industry and housing for a good portion of their profit making ability.
Drywall mfg, lumber mills, electrical supply houses, Lowes, Home Depot, heck even Wall Mart, the trucking industry. Every facet of mft and industry could be effected by this issue.

The combination is the US housing slump, and the global oil thirst. THATS what is causing the economy to go south.

Ya, the mortgage industry is to blame for about 1/3 of the economic problems. The remainder is all the fault of the senate and congress for lacking in enough wisdom and foresight to allow for more exlporation of our own natural rescources on US soil, an the fact that we now rely on +75% of foreign oil for our industry, and auto, trains, Trucks (semi's) are trucks not the "pickups that we drive", and airplanes. We hav'nt built a friggin oil refinery in 30+ years. Our thirst for oil, gas, deisel, nat gas, has gone up 10 fold since the 1970's. Guess what, our generation of such has stayed the same. Uhhh,, hello can we say supply issue, DUHHHHHHHH!

People think that the price of crude is all the fault of the big O'le bad US and their THIRST for oil. Well guess what peep's, the other countries like India, China, Russia, and other smaller but still developing countries have made a BIG dent in the global supply of crude. No one seems to ever think about the REAL problems that are on GLOBAL scale.

Do the research people, make up your own mind, make up your own decisions, don't be a lemming, that's what they want us to do. But what the hey,, it will all be over soon enough anyway. :)
 

Captain Racer

Active Member
Posts
31
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Prerunner1499, well said and I agree 100%. People will point the finger at someone other than themselves because they don't have the nad sack to except responsiblity for their actions. I think the housing crunch and the price of oil is a good wake up call the people of the US.
 

dmcmah0n

Well-Known Member
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I don't blame Bush but he does have like a 20 percent approval rating right now.

Off of Real Clear Politics

President Bush Job Approval
RCP Average
Approve30.8
Disapprove65.2
Spread -34.4

Congressional Job Approval
RCP Average
Approve18.7
Disapprove75.0
Spread -56.3


Bush has no real control. It's Congress and the Federal Reserve who have more clout.
 

FarrisMotorsports

Well-Known Member
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The economic slump is caused by people living beyond their means, plain and simple. Refinancing their way into the american dream, with bigger better cars, houses, and the 100k prerunners. Then they can't afford these payments due to their adjustable rate that was such a good deal back when they first got is 2-3 years ago. I saw this coming in early 2005.

The mortgage industry responded by relaxing lending guidelines alot, too much infact. From 2003 to 2007 darn near anyone with a job could buy a home. Ya, Joe blow with a 15$ an hour job and 550 credit bought a home. First and second mortgage, 100% financing. Home values were rising, too fast,, but did anyone care, NOPE. We were all fat and happy. Then the first wave of adj rates hit in 2005, people just refi'd their way out of those. Then early 2007, in fall of 2007 the rest hit but the loan programs that were available to them were all gone now. Those people could not refi their way out of the debt that they had incurred over the last 3-5 years. That was also was when investors stopped buying "mortgage paper" on wall street and the bottom dropped out of the feeding trough we all know as the mortgage industry. THATS WHAT CAUSED THE ECONIMIC SLUMP!

I believe you made a good point here. But....do you think that the politicians had anything to do with these "special loans"? I believe they were using the statement that it was the "American Dream" to be able to own a home....

Also, didn't something like this happen after the Regan era? When alot of Savings & Loans went belly up......? Does anyone remember any of this?
 

FarrisMotorsports

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Hopefully everyone doesn't think I'm a jack ** for starting this thread. I just have been reading alot of the threads on politics here, and it seems like most of it is non constructive.

Just would like to have friendly points made and some different constructive views in each direction. Maybe it'll open some members eyes...who knows. There is always 2 sides to every story. I believe people should keep an open mind with eyes open and ears open. And to not see only red,blue or green.
 

MALIBLOC

Well-Known Member
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I think it was all the people that did all those crappy loans.
 

prerunner1499

Well-Known Member
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I believe you made a good point here. But....do you think that the politicians had anything to do with these "special loans"? I believe they were using the statement that it was the "American Dream" to be able to own a home....

Also, didn't something like this happen after the Regan era? When alot of Savings & Loans went belly up......? Does anyone remember any of this?

Not necesarily, politicians did put a little pressure on the FED to keep the interest rates low to keep the economy booming. But look what that caused. Refi booms and home equity was un-sustainable with all the equity cash outs. But the FED did create and expand the FHA and VA loans. The FHA loan amounts actually were something like $285K max but that has been recently increased a couple times, and VA is a low down loan program. Now the Fed has a newer FHA program out there the "save the homeowner's a$$es" More Govt bail out help. Who pays for that? All of the rest of us who were samrt enough not to get ourselves all f'd up in the first place.

The majority of loan programs are thought up by the boards of investors and the white collars at the high up levels in the individual mortgage companies. They are whom decide what programs to offer based in their investment capitol they have available. Basically, when "money was easy to get and lend" there were all kinds of 100, 105 and 120% loan programs out there that we3re based on a home's equity. Well then that equity gap got eaten up by owners re-financing over and over their egg just kept getting bigger and bigger. Then they finally could not refi anymore so they walk away, go BK and start over with crappy credit and renting from some a hole slumlord again.

Where do you think alot o these dudes got the $ for buying the new F 3 fiddy and toy haulers, and sand jockey pimped out sand limo's the last 5 years. Sure as heck was'nt wages for the most of them. It was all refi $ for alot of them. Hence the term "REFI RACERS". Look what happened to Class 1 and TT racers. The last 5-8 years TT and Class 1 has grown alot, other classes too. Not to say that most of they did it that way but a good chunk did. BUT teams like the Mcmillans, Sourapas, PAB, Postol, Post, McCachran, Kreger, and alot of others. Most of them, well, they earned it.

The SNL crisis of the late 80's was a result of non insured loans going bad after interest rates and inflation were not kept in check. And "Black Monday" of October 1987. This is when the Dow crashed so hard from the panic. The S&L's had to eat alot of mortgage paper and most just left the investors hanging our in the breeze. The investors who had all the $ in tech stocks in the 2000 dot bomb just switched the real estate because it was deemed a smarter, safer investment. So many followed suit and that was what kept us from having a recession in the 2000 post clinton era. NO credit given the that goon of course.

Now (more recently) loans were borrower portfilio based (borrower credit and income)instead of colateral based (home value), this is because home appreciation rates were gong up as a steady and almose staggering pace. I know this, as I'm an Appraiser. Unfortunatley, the borrowers need for "keeping up with the Jones", fraudulant (inflated value) appraisals and unscrupulous mortgate activity has put us where we are now. Alot of good things happened from the 80's S&L crisis.
 
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