Entry fee for Vintage at the 2019 Mint ?

TROPHYSEDAN

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Water Boy is out.
We are trying to race our Bug in Class 11.
 

TROPHYSEDAN

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Taking Holy Toledo for the parade. Hope to show it.
 

LantanaTX

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We are racing our Chenwoth 1000 single seat as part of a two car team with Peter Alesi's beautiful red Chenowth DR2.
 

LantanaTX

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Bob, are you driving both laps?

Pete Alesi is driving the first lap and I am doing the second lap. We wish there was a third lap! Especially since they raised the entry fee 50%! The Mint is 3 times the cost per mile as NORRA.


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bajaxp

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Pete Alesi is driving the first lap and I am doing the second lap. We wish there was a third lap! Especially since they raised the entry fee 50%! The Mint is 3 times the cost per mile as NORRA.


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That is spendy. You going to race the NORRA 500 as well as the mil?
 

LantanaTX

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That is spendy. You going to race the NORRA 500 as well as the mil?

We will be campaigning 2 cars this year. The new two seat car will race both NORRA races and the single seater will race the Mint and Baja 1000.


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Peter Alesi Jr.

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We should all be bitching about not being able to compete for 3 laps, we should have a vote with the drivers in that class and not leave it up to a steward that has a couple horses in the race... The promoter should be asking the drivers in those classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing personal Norm, you do a good job...
 

LAZY-H

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You guys are killing me, so how much $$


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Rory

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We should all be bitching about not being able to compete for 3 laps, we should have a vote with the drivers in that class and not leave it up to a steward that has a couple horses in the race... The promoter should be asking the drivers in those classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing personal Norm, you do a good job...

Peter,

I've talked to Norm about this and he told me the reason for the 2 laps was due to the DNF percentage from the last couple years. Only a few cars are finishing 2 laps as it is so he thought it should stay that way. We talked and I told him he should ask the racers if they wanted to do 3 laps and take a pole to see how many would actually want to do it. He told me as of today there are 2 teams wanting to do 3 laps and no one else has shown any interest. If I was racing any of my cars in the 82 and down class I would only want to do 2 laps.....this race course is too hard on 30-40 year old race cars (IMHO). Now, the 82 and older class might be a better option but even those cars are having a hard time finishing as it is.

The other thing to think about is that adding a lap will increase your entry fee to the rest of the 3 lap classes. Best thing to do is to get a hold of all the racers in your class and ask and see who would be interested in racing 3 laps and also possibly have an increased entry fee to go with it. Once you have that number you can bring it to Norm and he can present it to BITD who are the ones that make the final rules.

Might be too late for this year but an option for 2020. If the finishing rate is better this year it would most likely increase the chances of it happening for 2020.
 

Bro_Gill

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Which car you talking about, the one that really never finished under Mickey anyway or everyone else's funcos, Chenowth, and Hi-jumpers that would have no problem doing 3 laps!
 

PHAIII113

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Rory,
We are in talks with all the vintage guys entering, BITD, and Martelli bros.. We are also working on a poll for all 2 lap classes. As Bob Lawrence mentioned before this will be our last Mint 240. I would rather enter races that we can do more miles for the cost. BITD is the only race organizer that shortens the race for the vintage classes. Score shortens areas do to large silt beds, etc.. but the length of the race is decided by the drivers themselves and we still only pay Sportman's fees. A&F & Tilton/Lawrence Racing will be spending its money on other races if this doesn't get fixed. We enjoy racing the Mint however, the cost per mile doesn't make since.
I understand some of Retro's concerns about finishing rates and the added miles to these older cars, but how many of these cars use to race and finish 4 laps at the harder north Mint course or even Baja 1000 races? Bob's car just finished and won the Baja 500 and could of done more miles. Most of these cars race Norra which is over 1000 miles. I feel some of Retro's concerns are personal or to lighten the prep load before Norra. That is only 1 persons opinion and he has a lot of pull with BITD. I have a lot of respect for Retro and you Rory. I consider you both friends, but this should, like Score be a decision made by all Vintage car drivers in person or over a voting poll not just one person. This is why we are all fighting to do 3 laps. Some are just going to have to back it off to get their car to finish 3 laps. This is no dig at anyone, just an opinion. On another note, we all have light sponsors and I would love to use them.
 

Rory

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Rory,
We are in talks with all the vintage guys entering, BITD, and Martelli bros.. We are also working on a poll for all 2 lap classes. As Bob Lawrence mentioned before this will be our last Mint 240. I would rather enter races that we can do more miles for the cost. BITD is the only race organizer that shortens the race for the vintage classes. Score shortens areas do to large silt beds, etc.. but the length of the race is decided by the drivers themselves and we still only pay Sportman's fees. A&F & Tilton/Lawrence Racing will be spending its money on other races if this doesn't get fixed. We enjoy racing the Mint however, the cost per mile doesn't make since.
I understand some of Retro's concerns about finishing rates and the added miles to these older cars, but how many of these cars use to race and finish 4 laps at the harder north Mint course or even Baja 1000 races? Bob's car just finished and won the Baja 500 and could of done more miles. Most of these cars race Norra which is over 1000 miles. I feel some of Retro's concerns are personal or to lighten the prep load before Norra. That is only 1 persons opinion and he has a lot of pull with BITD. I have a lot of respect for Retro and you Rory. I consider you both friends, but this should, like Score be a decision made by all Vintage car drivers in person or over a voting poll not just one person. This is why we are all fighting to do 3 laps. Some are just going to have to back it off to get their car to finish 3 laps. This is no dig at anyone, just an opinion. On another note, we all have light sponsors and I would love to use them.

Peter,

I totally get where you're coming from and talked with Norm about this a couple weeks ago. I told him if the majority of the vintage guys want to race 3 laps you should let them. He told me his concerns about the number of DNF's and thought that might deter people from entering as the race course has been getting rougher with increased laps. Still, he told me he would consider it if he got a majority rule.

Now, the 2nd part is it has to go through BITD because these cars are considered slow and they don't want them on the race course that long. The slower the pace the more likely a DNF for running out of time.

3rd part is the increase in entry fee. With the MINT 400 expanding to another day of racing that means prices for BLM and course workers double, which means higher entry fees. Norm does not have the authority to change any of these things, he can only offer his input.

Remember, Norm is doing what he thinks is best for vintage racing, not for his personal race team. Norm has no problem racing his cars for 3 laps, but he did take into consideration the age of these vehicles, the roughness of the race course and also teams racing NORRA a month later. Up until this year Norm has never had a car entered in NORRA so that argument is not valid that he is trying to save his car for that race (which Myself and Ed Maurin are racing).

My personal opinion about racing 2 laps at the MINT 400 in Vintage.

In 2016 when I raced Challenger IV the majority of the race course was graded. The race course was actually pretty nice for the first lap but quickly turned ugly by lap 2. Still, not that bad but it was getting there.

2017 I raced with Ed Maruin in the Ragland buggy, the race course was only bladed in a few spots and was a totally different race course from 2016. The Ragland buggy worked a lot better than Challenger IV but the course was beating us up pretty good.

2018, Ed raced the Ragland car again, no blading of the race course and he said it was horrible out there. You can run harder and try and get on top of this stuff but in a vintage car you will tear up the equipment doing that.

My point is, you can't compare NORRA to the MINT 400. If you put These courses on a grading scale of 1-10, NORRA would be a 4 and the MINT would be an 8.

Cars built in 1982 and earlier NEVER had to deal with holes and ruts as deep as the ones caused by 39" and 40" tires back in the day and the biggest tire out there (majority) at the time was a 33" tire. Can a 1982 and earlier vehicle make 3 laps at the MINT 400? I think so. Do I think it will tear them up more than a 1300 mile NORRA race? Absolutely.

1982 and older race cars would be more suited to do 3 laps (like my old DirTrix buggy, your DR2 and the Ivan Stewart Toyota), they can absorb the terrain much better than the 82 and older cars.

I'm just trying to help conserve these old buggies because what's going to happen is the guys that got beat up the year before after doing 3 laps will now want to update their vintage cars to something else, and we already have people doing this.

Then again, this isn't about me, this is about the sport of Vintage racing, whatever is better for Vintage racing I will be all for it. All I ask is you guys look deeper into the long term affect of increasing mileage on a very challenging race track on cars that are already 30-40 years old and being punished on already tired tubing.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Fourstroker

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Not racing our car at the Mint but if I was I would share your opinion Rory. Primm/Jean is nasty enough in a modern car
 

LantanaTX

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Some good point Rory, However, I am still in favor of a 3 lap race for both vintage classes.

The Price increase for the Mint 400 is up 50% over last year. With such a huge price increase a third lap seems reasonable even if that requires a grand prix finish as Matt Martelli suggested to avoid the cost increase of going past midnight. I have a ton of respect for the guys putting on this race and understand business is business.

It is also treated as a business with us and all the sponsors that support us. When we put together our racing schedule, the prestige of the event is a factor (Mint has it), value is also big (Mint has lost it now) as well as making sure we have time to prep between races (tight but doable with NORRA). The cost per mile of the Mint is now the highest of any race we are considering and the shortest on our 2019 schedule. The cost and value discussion of the MINT comes up every year which is too bad. I doubt we want to be a part of this next year with options like Parker and Vegas to Reno and the Baja 500 to pick from to take its place. Our car is well built and well prepped and has proven it is tough enough to go the distance. Conlin and Rountree also have a vintage car that can go the distance and doesn't need a shortened race to win.
 
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