Euro car/truck shocks ??'s

[Fire1998]

Hey guys
Maybe some of you shock experts can comment on the set up the Euros use for shocks. Seems to most of the cars and trucks are running a single shock...dont know the name of them (Ricor maybe)but they dont look like bypasses unless their internal. They dont look much bigger than 2.5" coilovers. Heck on my jeepspeed 2700 I'm running a 2"King coilover and a 2.5 internal bump stop with compression adjusters on the front alone. Also have a 2" bump stop. Do the Euros use bumpstops? Are their shocks differently designed than say Fox or King? What makes them special? Also noticed RG's are running single Kings. Must be IBP.
I do notice the Euro cars do like to rabbit the rear end but that's probably just the IRS.

 

[mrlentle]

Yes to bumps. Reiger is the shock brand you've seen I'd say:

 

[partybarge_pilot]

What makes them special?

Not much, they look like a oversized MX bike shock. With the limited travel that they have on the 4WD cars, by-pass wouldn't make that much of a difference.

On the 2WD buggy's they would, ask Bryce. Many of the buggy's are running King's/Fox's.

 

[Fire1998]

Are the Riegors using a different technology than we are using in US? Electric damping maybe? Or just good old oil, valves and shims?
My 2700 truck only has 10" of travel and the King IBP work pretty damn good!!

 

[GEO_DXB]

valves, shims, the lot. no electronic damping/active suspension is allowed.

its pretty much an IBP - everything is built-in to save on weight. progressive rate springs.

Reiger is probably the most popular brand. They are Dutch. You also have Donerre from France, Intrax is Dutch as well. A few other Euro brands that are not so well known. Some teams still run US shocks - on our buggy we run up to 3.0 Kings.

Here's a link to Donerre technology description

Technology | Donerre

 

[partybarge_pilot]

Here's a link to Donerre technology description

Their DETRA system sounds a lot like the inertia valves that Ricor was making.

The ART system sounds a lot like the Kinetik set-up from Australia that got banned in WRC.

 

[Fire1998]

The donerre detra system sounds a lot like KTM's TRAX rear shock. It releases rebound so shock will follow the terrain better. Been around for awhile now.

WP 5018 Trax Shock KTM Linkage

 

[Fire1998]

With just 1 or just 2 shocks on the garbage trucks...how are they combating keeping the shocks cool? Have not seen remote reservoirs on the Reigers. The all look like dirtbike shocks.

Side conversation:
Always been fascinated with how our race shocks work. Been racing dirtbikes for 30 years and have spent a lot of money on revalved and springs. What amazes me is that it costs $400-500 to do one rear honda shock. Just had 4 IBP Kings revalved and 2 seals replaced at King. It cost me materials only for $125!!!

 

[Chris_Wilson]

everything is built-in to save on weight.

Why are many teams using dual coilovers instead of a much lighter single coilover plus second non-coilover shock? Is it because they do not want to order custom coils and just build with what is off the shelf locally? You used to see this (dual coilovers) in desert racing 30-40 years ago but hardly ever now.

 

[Chris_Wilson]

With just 1 or just 2 shocks on the garbage trucks...how are they combating keeping the shocks cool? Have not seen remote reservoirs on the Reigers. The all look like dirtbike shocks.

Side conversation:
Always been fascinated with how our race shocks work. Been racing dirtbikes for 30 years and have spent a lot of money on revalved and springs. What amazes me is that it costs $400-500 to do one rear honda shock. Just had 4 IBP Kings revalved and 2 seals replaced at King. It cost me materials only for $125!!!

Want to save money on DIY rebuilds?
www.shockseals.com

 

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

Why are many teams using dual coilovers instead of a much lighter single coilover plus second non-coilover shock?

Redundancy in case of failures in the field with few to no Checkers on hand.

 

[Fire1998]

Want to save money on DIY rebuilds?
www.shockseals.com

There are some things I leave up to the experts!! My ADD would kick in and I would have shims missing or in backwards!!!

 

[GEO_DXB]

Why are many teams using dual coilovers instead of a much lighter single coilover plus second non-coilover shock? Is it because they do not want to order custom coils and just build with what is off the shelf locally? You used to see this (dual coilovers) in desert racing 30-40 years ago but hardly ever now.

I think its really down to this Europe vs. Murica way. They just stick to what works best from experience. I do think in part it is redundancy. Teams dont mind having a lot of custom coils - they actually have massive stock and so do manufacturers.

We use a finned King setup and some Euro shock builders would come over and say - hey, I can do you a setup which will be lighter and more compact. So in part its also size and weight and where you can actually put things - we did have a placement issue for reservoirs at build and had to get creative. Weight wise their shocks are lighter - we had them weighted and there is a notable difference.

 

[MX304]

I think its really down to this Europe vs. Murica way. They just stick to what works best from experience. I do think in part it is redundancy. Teams dont mind having a lot of custom coils - they actually have massive stock and so do manufacturers.

We use a finned King setup and some Euro shock builders would come over and say - hey, I can do you a setup which will be lighter and more compact. So in part its also size and weight and where you can actually put things - we did have a placement issue for reservoirs at build and had to get creative. Weight wise their shocks are lighter - we had them weighted and there is a notable difference.

If they break one shock, they still have something holding that corner of the car up so they can continue on. It's redundancy.

 

[partybarge_pilot]

we had them weighted and there is a notable difference.

How much lighter are we talking here per corner?

I will admit, if cost was not an object there are several things you could do to a Fox or King to lighten them up.

 

[GEO_DXB]

If they break one shock, they still have something holding that corner of the car up so they can continue on. It's redundancy.

I did mention that in my post if you bothered reading it.

 

[GEO_DXB]

How much lighter are we talking here per corner?

I will admit, if cost was not an object there are several things you could do to a Fox or King to lighten them up.

20 to 30 percent. It was a while ago so I don’t have exact figures. I guess depending on setup it could be more or less. I would be able to weight UTV shocks off a race Yamaha soon to see what is the difference.

So what would be the “money don’t matter” change?

 

[partybarge_pilot]

So what would be the “money don’t matter” change?

Lot's, but I am no longer giving ideas away.

 

[BajaFand]

20 to 30 percent. It was a while ago so I don’t have exact figures. I guess depending on setup it could be more or less. I would be able to weight UTV shocks off a race Yamaha soon to see what is the difference.

So what would be the “money don’t matter” change?

But at what cost? At the cost of damping performance, increased heat, and cavitation you’re better off being heavier in the shock department.


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[swiftracing5]

I am no expert but worked in the field for a few years.

Single vs Dual: if you can disperse the load across 2 shocks then they will stay cooler. Plus you can integrate different internals in each shock. Think one is coil carrier and one carries elaborate valving.
Cooling: since these are rally races, I doubt the shocks on these cars get as hot as our shocks do. Plus you can rebuild them nightly if needed. I am sure they have telemetry to check shocks real time.
Technology: I dont really know, I imagine they use a bottom out needle(King) or a Bottom out Cup(Fox), this allows them to be position sensitive in a way. I am sure the pistons are the moneymaker though. Porting, spring loaded valves to make the shock velocity sensitive.

It is too bad Bryce isn't there this year because I had heard he was going to have SDG Shocks do his tuning for him so we really couldve gotten the scoop and seen if our top tuners can get those cars working well.