F150 I Beam vs. Silverado IFS

-1776-

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As I continue into the due diligence of finally getting involved with racing I've hit a cross road.

Assumption: Building a 1450 truck that can also get involved in the Class 8 Score class.

Initial thoughts were silverado base with the mazzulla style front end, notched frame and 4 link rear. Initial concerns were the awkward cab dimensions of the silverado. Single cab might be a little tight, extra cab just too long.

Enter the f150. The ex cab is perfect and off we go into suspension. I've paid a lot of attention to the Class 8's that were f150 based. Here's where it gets, uh, fuzzy. To my knowledge, the class 8's that I've seen are on 1997 style soft bodies. But the 1997 truck didn't have an I-beam set-up, did it? What's the loop hole there? Are they saying, "Hey, the f150 had an i beam set up during its production run, the year of the model doesn't matter." ? So they chop the IFS out and fab in the beams? Is that the Class 8 work around?

The beams are attractive for cost purposes- allowing me to allocate more capital to the powerplant.

Who has the best long travel ibeam design for the f150? I've seen travel numbers north of 20" being claimed. Who should I be contacting for that?

Keeping in mind that this truck will primarily be a 1450 truck, with ability to Class 8, what other ghosts in the basement wait?
 
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Assumption: Building a 1450 truck that can also get involved in the Class 8 Score class.
Bad assumption. Compromise for both, competitive in neither.

Better to buy for one than build for none.

Speed, Price, Quality: choose two.

How quick do you want spend to go fast?

Good luck and have fun!

...and Happy Birthday!
 

-1776-

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Bad assumption. Compromise for both, competitive in neither.
I'm basing the assumption on: Lion's share of both classes have beam based front ends. At a minimum, the design shows an equalization in process. So, they share that- the open front end design in 1450 can at least show that even so, they still proceed with beams. Class 8, you're somewhat stuck with beams. Result: a wash.

1450, open rear design. Class 8, has to be notched. I'm not sure that an open rear design completely out paces the notch in class 8. Both designs still sit behind a beam front end. Result: Slight edge to the 1450 rear rules.

1450 has to retain the cab and the frame rails as far as the cab goes. Class 8, seemingly shows (from the cars I've studied) stock frame throughout but a glass body. I think we can agree that both platforms contain such an abundant use of 4130 tubing that even for a door slammer, it's pretty much a tube truck as far as the engine cage, cab cage and bed goes. If anything, I see the 1450 rule hold back of having working doors and original cab as a disadvantage with Class 8's. However, in Class 8, with 5 trucks racing last year, 2 DNF, just getting to the finish line almost guarantees a podium (chuckle/fart/cough).

Better to buy for one than build for none.
I may very well end up here and it does sound appealing. I'll come out light years ahead on cash, get to actually race in this lifetime and trip/fall into a sorted truck. The allure of building a truck is too strong. I imagine many of us didn't get to the point of being able to afford things like this without being builders. Both in business and principle.

Speed, Price, Quality: choose two.
Somewhat underhanded; we all know a lot of cash can cover a lot of sin. Somewhere in that equation there's a diminishing return and I believe that exists at the last exit (or a couple) before "No expense spared!, no low ballers!"

How quick do you want spend to go fast?

Good luck and have fun!
That's why we are all here! I appreciate you taking the time to entertain my ideology. I hope I can learn more.

...and Happy Birthday!
I contemplate, at length, what needs to be achieved. The reality is, I'd like to get involved with stateside racing as I see events both more numerous and accessible (geographically speaking). So the 1450 is the direction I need to head. In addition, the Baja races are bucket lists. With rules more stringent, I need to get creative by finding a blend.

Is it in your opinion that a well sorted door slammer with a notched rear-end can't be competitive in 1450? What are your glaring concerns by going this route? Genuinely interested in your opinion.
 

Dirty Harry

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I think that building an older Ford with beams makes sense because the initial cost is pretty low and as you noted, you can get a bunch of travel out of them. Competition in 1450 is pretty stiff in SNORE, if you want to hang with those guys you need to build a truck specifically for the class. Autofab, Threat Motorsports, and Giant Motorsports all offer i-beam kits.

If Mexico is a bucket list item, I would build your truck for stateside races and enter sportsman in SCORE and just enjoy the adventure. When (if?) that gets boring you can always update your truck or team up with someone for longer races in their vehicle.
 

-1776-

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I think that building an older Ford with beams makes sense because the initial cost is pretty low and as you noted, you can get a bunch of travel out of them. Competition in 1450 is pretty stiff in SNORE, if you want to hang with those guys you need to build a truck specifically for the class. Autofab, Threat Motorsports, and Giant Motorsports all offer i-beam kits.

If Mexico is a bucket list item, I would build your truck for stateside races and enter sportsman in SCORE and just enjoy the adventure. When (if?) that gets boring you can always update your truck or team up with someone for longer races in their vehicle.
Thank you for the response. I think your idea so far has the best blend of reality and practicality to do what we want to do.

What do you think holds a 8 truck back from competing/being competitive in the 1450? Let's remove the driver/operator element and focus on equipment. Do you believe the notched frame really creates a disadvantage?

1450 you can run beams on a f150, ls engine, th400, etc. So the only difference is that notch, no?
 

BRINGTHERUCKUS

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No LS in a F150 in class 8, Engine must match the manufacture.

A properly built, reliable class 8 should still be competitive in 1450 (see Olliges' F100), however, the class has grown far past its original concept of being a "prerunner" type class.

Autofab makes a lot of great parts, but I would not suggest going with them for race beams on a class 8. Prerun, midtravel etc theyre great, but full kill race they leave a little to be desired. They are based off stock 1-ton beams. That being said I suggest you source a lot of parts from Autofab. (motor/trans mounts, cage mounts, hood pin kits, body panels, etc)

Blitzkrieg, Giant, Threat, etc, all make very nice I-beam kits for pre-'97 F150's

I know there's more, but can't think of them. If you can source a set of Plank/SI beams jump on them.
 

slvrbullet

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"What do you think holds a 8 truck back from competing/being competitive in the 1450? "
A true class 8 should stomp on the 1450 class. The only advantage the 1450 trucks have is the tube chassis rear half, however I really don't think it would be a huge advantage compared to a class 8. Yes many are running LS3's but only a very few are running full blown V8 race motors, and V6's are still hanging and getting wins against those guys. The 1450 pro guys in Snore is different but I think a true class 8 going up against guys like Chris Isenhouer would be a fun battle every race, and I still think the true 8 truck would hold the advantage.
 

-1776-

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No LS in a F150 in class 8, Engine must match the manufacture.

A properly built, reliable class 8 should still be competitive in 1450 (see Olliges' F100), however, the class has grown far past its original concept of being a "prerunner" type class.

Autofab makes a lot of great parts, but I would not suggest going with them for race beams on a class 8. Prerun, midtravel etc theyre great, but full kill race they leave a little to be desired. They are based off stock 1-ton beams. That being said I suggest you source a lot of parts from Autofab. (motor/trans mounts, cage mounts, hood pin kits, body panels, etc)

Blitzkrieg, Giant, Threat, etc, all make very nice I-beam kits for pre-'97 F150's

I know there's more, but can't think of them. If you can source a set of Plank/SI beams jump on them.
Right. Same engine/transmission to the body.

I’m saying what makes the 8 truck itself, not competitive to the 1450.

Most guys in 1450 are running beams. 8’s run beams. So that leaves the notched frame. Is it the general belief that the notch rules is carrying enough burden to make the truck not competitive?
 

-1776-

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"What do you think holds a 8 truck back from competing/being competitive in the 1450? "
A true class 8 should stomp on the 1450 class. The only advantage the 1450 trucks have is the tube chassis rear half, however I really don't think it would be a huge advantage compared to a class 8. Yes many are running LS3's but only a very few are running full blown V8 race motors, and V6's are still hanging and getting wins against those guys. The 1450 pro guys in Snore is different but I think a true class 8 going up against guys like Chris Isenhouer would be a fun battle every race, and I still think the true 8 truck would hold the advantage.

That’s my feeling as well. A built 8, should be capable enough to compete in 1450 (assuming the 8 has the doors and original cab but I don’t see that holding an 8 truck back).
 
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(You wanna tell 'im?)
 

Chris Tobin

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That's not a Class 8 truck (at least not anymore, if it ever was)... It is a Dakar race vehicle that raced in the "Cars" class I believe. Eric is a french guy that now lives in the US and has embraced US-style desert/off road racing and raced his truck in Dakar for several years!

Also, within the Class 8 rules I do not believe that you have to retain factory suspension pivot points, just the frame rails, and the suspension does not have to actually mount to those frame rails if you are creative enough in your fabrication work...
 

slvrbullet

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A class 8 is basically a trophy truck with a steel block, with the motor pretty close to factory location and some frame rails. Look at Rodrigo Ampuda's Geiser Bros 8 truck, That truck is hard to tell apart from a trophy truck and it is/was class 8 legal.
 

EOR1488

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As I continue into the due diligence of finally getting involved with racing I've hit a cross road.

Assumption: Building a 1450 truck that can also get involved in the Class 8 Score class.

Initial thoughts were silverado base with the mazzulla style front end, notched frame and 4 link rear. Initial concerns were the awkward cab dimensions of the silverado. Single cab might be a little tight, extra cab just too long.

Enter the f150. The ex cab is perfect and off we go into suspension. I've paid a lot of attention to the Class 8's that were f150 based. Here's where it gets, uh, fuzzy. To my knowledge, the class 8's that I've seen are on 1997 style soft bodies. But the 1997 truck didn't have an I-beam set-up, did it? What's the loop hole there? Are they saying, "Hey, the f150 had an i beam set up during its production run, the year of the model doesn't matter." ? So they chop the IFS out and fab in the beams? Is that the Class 8 work around?

The beams are attractive for cost purposes- allowing me to allocate more capital to the powerplant.

Who has the best long travel ibeam design for the f150? I've seen travel numbers north of 20" being claimed. Who should I be contacting for that?

Keeping in mind that this truck will primarily be a 1450 truck, with ability to Class 8, what other ghosts in the basement wait?


Why not just build out the truck to 1450 specs and then if Baja is just a dream race run sportsman truck in Baja or in BITD if you want to race The Mint 400 etc.

The rule book for 1450 is pretty simple. Steal cab, working doors, some stock frame rail. So you can put any suspension, motor, trans blah blah.

Class 8 is a little more strict with frame rail, suspension and engine combo and suspension mounting location etc.

I have raced both classes currently have a Ford Ranger we race in 1450 use to Race a 96 F150 in class 8. We love 1450 and it’s fun to show up to a race and run against 50 guys with all sorts of variations of trucks. You won’t be disappointed racing in the class.

Super easy to buy kit suspension from numerous diffrent companies already mentioned, steering stuff is all already out there so be really easy to go that direction.


Sent from my iPhone using race-deZert mobile app
 
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