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On Topic Fall Crandon 2018

CFreeLV

Well-Known Member
#64
I've heard similar rumblings. Sounds like the drivers are divided. Some want a single series and some want to keep as is with East and West coast series.

Regardless the first step in the right direction is to get the rules figured out.

I talked with a few people that were "in the know" this weekend about any type of unification, I did not get very good responses on that question, which sucks.

There needs to be a unified series, with unified rules packages for each pro class. I hope the powers at be can throw all the BS and politics out the window and make this happen for the fans. Race teams will adapt to different rules packages, they might complain about it, but they will adapt if they want to race.
 
#65
The cup race was a challenge to make everything equal as possible. Midwest spec Pro-2 is less hp (700ish ?) and dot tire verses a west coast unlimited Pro-2 more hp (875ish ?) and project tires. Pro-4 also has more hp (875ish ?), project tires and 4wd. That all creates a problems. Lap times, pro-4 is the fastest then west pro-2 then mid-west pro-2. In the drivers meeting it was said if a caution had to be thrown (gonna try not to) the best way to keep things as they were, was to gap the restart for each class BASED on the time gap when the flag came out. 3 separate flags is how the race started, time delay I'm not sure. At the caution Chad Hord was leading in a mid-west truck. CJ and Deegan had west trucks, and Johnny G was leading the pro-4 group and all pro-2 trucks he had passed. Any trucks that were passed had to stay with the later group. So if CJ leading the west trucks was 4 seconds behind Chad and J. Greaves leading the pro-4's was 3 seconds behind CJ, that's how the race was supposed to be restarted on a time delay for each group, so that J. Greaves wouldn't be actually 3 trucks behind Chad (although he technically was in 4th) but 7 seconds back still. (just using times as a example). SOUNDS crazy but as an example, if a caution was thrown on lap 2 and no time gaps were used pro-4 would've been leading by lap 3 or 4, just based on lap times. Rolling restart would have been to hard to do with gaps, so a standing restart with multiple time delayed flags was how it was done. Perfect, no, but it's the best they could figure out.
 

ltr450rider

Well-Known Member
#66
This is the kind of thing that makes it difficult for the fans. We can't have all of this confusion with east and west coast rule books.

Pro 2: Cheaper, limited engines, DOT tires.
Pro 4: Unlimited, make it the show that fans want to watch and teams to spend money on.
 
#67
I've been a quiet observer of the conversation that's been going on with the short course world, and I'll admit even after 4 years of racing I'm still new. I came into the sport when there were 25 trucks and I never made the field due to the LCQ and not having the experience or ability in being fast enough. I've also been parked for not enough experience (Reno 2015). Not that I want to go in to my resume, but I feel I have to, to make my opinion have some ground. I've been in the industry for 17 years between Australia and here, I wrench, fabricate, marketing, sales, run a cnc machine. I've worked for Racepak as a product manager, SEMA as a show manager, and helped develop products with many different companies (through product support for racing).

Putting offroad and numbers into perspective - NASCAR is down, NHRA is down, Indy Car is down, UFC is down, Tour de France is down, World Soccer not as great as it should be, Cable TV is down...... From what I understand and I research it as much as possible - LOORRS CBS numbers are holding steady = WIN! in my books compared to other things. I'm a fan of everything automotive, and in my books short course off road is certainly the most entertaining. Don't forget we have an issue in this world where kids don't wan't to get there drivers license, we have a shortage of technicians, our society has changed.

We can all sit here and talk about the rule book, and what the series needs to do to make it cheaper (and still safe) - I agree. I switched to the new EFI engine program in prolite, not thrilled about the cost, but it is what it is. One cool thing is having the Motec guy stop by each qualifying and race to check over the data and let me know the stats - one thing less I have to worry about. Were there cheaper options than the Motec - yes, could other companies provide the same service and security - yes. But it was a decision that was made with what I feel not a great deal of research - BUT it not Motec's fault! I have to add that in there because they are getting crucified by the teams.

If Pro 2 and Pro 4 are the unlimited class - why don't they get unlimited ECU choice?? Just food for thought.

The point I wanted to make about the rule book - There is no point about making all these suggestions on what to do with the rule book, and make changes to the classes and have spec engines, and SFI cased transmissions etc etc etc if they don't tech the trucks. It was mandatory for everyone to have SFI case transmissions, I have 4 transmissions for 2 prolite trucks think of the extra cost imposed and yet they haven't checked to make sure.
There was a rule change on 1 1/2" trucks to 1 3/4" on prolites, and specific placement on bars, but we haven't had a tech session without our fiberglass body or without our panels.

As for it being a national series - It has to happen! The pool for money gets expanded once you are national, I have had companies walk away from deals because it's not "national" enough. Sponsorship does exist, I've been privileged enough to work with my partners for the last 4 years, to do this full time and not have a job to supplement it. Its tough and stressful, but a quote taken from another racing - my bad day, is still someone else's good day. But the hustle never ends, figuring out business deals, I'm essentially a marketing intern for 20 different companies, and at the end of the day I'm an entertainer for the spectators that turn up to the track. 95% of my time is working behind the scenes for the other 5% to be spent racing on track. Over the last 4 years I have been able to bring in (I think) 9 different companies that were not involved in offroad. Some have stayed others have left, and as we look towards 2019, I will continue to look outside the circle for sponsorship. Me taking a sponsor from another racer doesn't help in any way, and I know that other racers have approached my sponsors (my sponsors are great and let me know). I'm not sure if it's the lack of effort from other racers or lack of ability to get sponsorship. My first proposal I wrote 10 years ago was a pile of crap, the Alternative Marketing Manager for Mazda told me so, that guy became my mentor, and I learned from it. We finished up getting a $5,000 check and a $5,000 parts budget from Mazda in our second year of drifting.

My biggest hurdle this year, putting a second prolite in the class, not the easiest thing to do, but we did it and we are looking forward to 2019.

I'm more than open to criticism and opinions on what I have put forward. At the end of the day I want to see the series grow, and racers make money (not necessarily from prize money but through sponsorship and business dealings)
 

sb4pro

Well-Known Member
#68
I've been a quiet observer of the conversation that's been going on with the short course world, and I'll admit even after 4 years of racing I'm still new. I came into the sport when there were 25 trucks and I never made the field due to the LCQ and not having the experience or ability in being fast enough. I've also been parked for not enough experience (Reno 2015). Not that I want to go in to my resume, but I feel I have to, to make my opinion have some ground. I've been in the industry for 17 years between Australia and here, I wrench, fabricate, marketing, sales, run a cnc machine. I've worked for Racepak as a product manager, SEMA as a show manager, and helped develop products with many different companies (through product support for racing).

Putting offroad and numbers into perspective - NASCAR is down, NHRA is down, Indy Car is down, UFC is down, Tour de France is down, World Soccer not as great as it should be, Cable TV is down...... From what I understand and I research it as much as possible - LOORRS CBS numbers are holding steady = WIN! in my books compared to other things. I'm a fan of everything automotive, and in my books short course off road is certainly the most entertaining. Don't forget we have an issue in this world where kids don't wan't to get there drivers license, we have a shortage of technicians, our society has changed.

We can all sit here and talk about the rule book, and what the series needs to do to make it cheaper (and still safe) - I agree. I switched to the new EFI engine program in prolite, not thrilled about the cost, but it is what it is. One cool thing is having the Motec guy stop by each qualifying and race to check over the data and let me know the stats - one thing less I have to worry about. Were there cheaper options than the Motec - yes, could other companies provide the same service and security - yes. But it was a decision that was made with what I feel not a great deal of research - BUT it not Motec's fault! I have to add that in there because they are getting crucified by the teams.

If Pro 2 and Pro 4 are the unlimited class - why don't they get unlimited ECU choice?? Just food for thought.

The point I wanted to make about the rule book - There is no point about making all these suggestions on what to do with the rule book, and make changes to the classes and have spec engines, and SFI cased transmissions etc etc etc if they don't tech the trucks. It was mandatory for everyone to have SFI case transmissions, I have 4 transmissions for 2 prolite trucks think of the extra cost imposed and yet they haven't checked to make sure.
There was a rule change on 1 1/2" trucks to 1 3/4" on prolites, and specific placement on bars, but we haven't had a tech session without our fiberglass body or without our panels.

As for it being a national series - It has to happen! The pool for money gets expanded once you are national, I have had companies walk away from deals because it's not "national" enough. Sponsorship does exist, I've been privileged enough to work with my partners for the last 4 years, to do this full time and not have a job to supplement it. Its tough and stressful, but a quote taken from another racing - my bad day, is still someone else's good day. But the hustle never ends, figuring out business deals, I'm essentially a marketing intern for 20 different companies, and at the end of the day I'm an entertainer for the spectators that turn up to the track. 95% of my time is working behind the scenes for the other 5% to be spent racing on track. Over the last 4 years I have been able to bring in (I think) 9 different companies that were not involved in offroad. Some have stayed others have left, and as we look towards 2019, I will continue to look outside the circle for sponsorship. Me taking a sponsor from another racer doesn't help in any way, and I know that other racers have approached my sponsors (my sponsors are great and let me know). I'm not sure if it's the lack of effort from other racers or lack of ability to get sponsorship. My first proposal I wrote 10 years ago was a pile of crap, the Alternative Marketing Manager for Mazda told me so, that guy became my mentor, and I learned from it. We finished up getting a $5,000 check and a $5,000 parts budget from Mazda in our second year of drifting.

My biggest hurdle this year, putting a second prolite in the class, not the easiest thing to do, but we did it and we are looking forward to 2019.

I'm more than open to criticism and opinions on what I have put forward. At the end of the day I want to see the series grow, and racers make money (not necessarily from prize money but through sponsorship and business dealings)
Thanks Sarah and thanks again Corry it’s always good when actual racers come on here and give a behind the scenes experience to us fans . That’s one of the biggest things I love about this RDC forum , what other motorsport ( or stick and ball sports for that matter ) can the fans actually get to interact with the athletes they root for and get an honest look at really goes on .
 

Dirty Harry

Well-Known Member
#69
Pro 2: Cheaper, limited engines, DOT tires.
Pro 4: Unlimited, make it the show that fans want to watch and teams to spend money on.
So where does Pro Lite fit into that? Pro2 is going to be cheaper than Pro4 even with the same engines, and I don't even understand the rationale of the DOT tire rule to be honest.
 
#70
Thanks Sarah and thanks again Corry it’s always good when actual racers come on here and give a behind the scenes experience to us fans . That’s one of the biggest things I love about this RDC forum , what other motorsport ( or stick and ball sports for that matter ) can the fans actually get to interact with the athletes they root for and get an honest look at really goes on .
You're welcome! I wish I had a little more time, I usually just read through the comments, and I feel that my responses need to be more than just a sentence or two. If you guys have the correct information on the rule book, series etc, then you can make a more calculated statement, and be well informed fans.
 

acers

Well-Known Member
#71
I've been a quiet observer of the conversation that's been going on with the short course world, and I'll admit even after 4 years of racing I'm still new. I came into the sport when there were 25 trucks and I never made the field due to the LCQ and not having the experience or ability in being fast enough. I've also been parked for not enough experience (Reno 2015). Not that I want to go in to my resume, but I feel I have to, to make my opinion have some ground. I've been in the industry for 17 years between Australia and here, I wrench, fabricate, marketing, sales, run a cnc machine. I've worked for Racepak as a product manager, SEMA as a show manager, and helped develop products with many different companies (through product support for racing).

Putting offroad and numbers into perspective - NASCAR is down, NHRA is down, Indy Car is down, UFC is down, Tour de France is down, World Soccer not as great as it should be, Cable TV is down...... From what I understand and I research it as much as possible - LOORRS CBS numbers are holding steady = WIN! in my books compared to other things. I'm a fan of everything automotive, and in my books short course off road is certainly the most entertaining. Don't forget we have an issue in this world where kids don't wan't to get there drivers license, we have a shortage of technicians, our society has changed.

We can all sit here and talk about the rule book, and what the series needs to do to make it cheaper (and still safe) - I agree. I switched to the new EFI engine program in prolite, not thrilled about the cost, but it is what it is. One cool thing is having the Motec guy stop by each qualifying and race to check over the data and let me know the stats - one thing less I have to worry about. Were there cheaper options than the Motec - yes, could other companies provide the same service and security - yes. But it was a decision that was made with what I feel not a great deal of research - BUT it not Motec's fault! I have to add that in there because they are getting crucified by the teams.

If Pro 2 and Pro 4 are the unlimited class - why don't they get unlimited ECU choice?? Just food for thought.

The point I wanted to make about the rule book - There is no point about making all these suggestions on what to do with the rule book, and make changes to the classes and have spec engines, and SFI cased transmissions etc etc etc if they don't tech the trucks. It was mandatory for everyone to have SFI case transmissions, I have 4 transmissions for 2 prolite trucks think of the extra cost imposed and yet they haven't checked to make sure.
There was a rule change on 1 1/2" trucks to 1 3/4" on prolites, and specific placement on bars, but we haven't had a tech session without our fiberglass body or without our panels.

As for it being a national series - It has to happen! The pool for money gets expanded once you are national, I have had companies walk away from deals because it's not "national" enough. Sponsorship does exist, I've been privileged enough to work with my partners for the last 4 years, to do this full time and not have a job to supplement it. Its tough and stressful, but a quote taken from another racing - my bad day, is still someone else's good day. But the hustle never ends, figuring out business deals, I'm essentially a marketing intern for 20 different companies, and at the end of the day I'm an entertainer for the spectators that turn up to the track. 95% of my time is working behind the scenes for the other 5% to be spent racing on track. Over the last 4 years I have been able to bring in (I think) 9 different companies that were not involved in offroad. Some have stayed others have left, and as we look towards 2019, I will continue to look outside the circle for sponsorship. Me taking a sponsor from another racer doesn't help in any way, and I know that other racers have approached my sponsors (my sponsors are great and let me know). I'm not sure if it's the lack of effort from other racers or lack of ability to get sponsorship. My first proposal I wrote 10 years ago was a pile of crap, the Alternative Marketing Manager for Mazda told me so, that guy became my mentor, and I learned from it. We finished up getting a $5,000 check and a $5,000 parts budget from Mazda in our second year of drifting.

My biggest hurdle this year, putting a second prolite in the class, not the easiest thing to do, but we did it and we are looking forward to 2019.

I'm more than open to criticism and opinions on what I have put forward. At the end of the day I want to see the series grow, and racers make money (not necessarily from prize money but through sponsorship and business dealings)
WOW, Thank you for letting us know what its like on the team side. You just gained some more fans!!!!!
 

ltr450rider

Well-Known Member
#72
So where does Pro Lite fit into that? Pro2 is going to be cheaper than Pro4 even with the same engines, and I don't even understand the rationale of the DOT tire rule to be honest.
Pro lite is a tough one because of the 1-1/2" to 1-3/4" rule they have for the Lucas trucks. I am sure there is a reason for it that, assuming safety, but there are quite a few 1/2" trucks out there that are probably going to be parked and those guys won't be able to race. Maybe they can add some bracing here and there to bring the weight and strength up and be allowed to run with the 3/4" trucks? That would get those trucks on the track and fill an event.

As for Pro lite engines, why not run a crate LS engine and Lucas provides the programmed ECU's? I know there are a lot of teams that would not like it, but like I said before, it's what you have to do if you want to race that spec class.

The only reason I say the DOT tire rule in Pro 2 is because that is what seems to be working for the midwest Pro 2 class. It did bring more trucks to the track and made for better racing. Like it or not, use what is working.

I think the worst thing about this series right now is the lack of trucks on track. Pro 4 has 6 trucks racing this year. It's not fun watching 3 of them finish and only having the occasional race between trucks. Like Sarah said, there needs to be more reason for teams to spend money to come out and race.

I am certainly not on the "inside" by any means, but I am lucky enough to talk with some who are. The disappointing thing I keep hearing is that no one really knows what is going to happen in 2019. Most teams are already figuring out budgets and working on sponsorships for next year, if not done already. Uncertainty is not good when asking sponsors for money to race.
 

justafan

Well-Known Member
#73
Short Course seems to have consistent 8-10 year swings before racers get fed up with current situation and bail on the sanctioning body or the money (sponsors/owners/racers) keeping it afloat drys up.

SODA 80's to 98
CORR 98-2008
WSORR (Lucas) 2008-2009
PDG/Ricky Johnson Grand Prix Ultimately morphed to what is TORC via drivers wanting a say in their sport
TORC (Amsoil) 2009-2017
LOORRS (Lucas) 2009-??

Trying to remember all the why and how's of all the changes are hard. You could write for hours. Ultimately something needs to be done to make this sustainable.

Getting P2 fields in the Midwest of 15+is going in the right direction. If the Midwest spec P2 takes hold. Leave it alone. When you start getting fields of 20+ you'll be getting enough entry to pay back farther into the field and help out the little guy.

Go back to what the v8 PL was. If PL would have been left alone, there would be massive fields and money to be made. Same deal will happen as with P2.

Run DOT tires in P2. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday. The add campaigns for the tires should be driven around the show case that is short course. What better way to prove the tires?! There are many companies out there that will show up if you go DOT. Want to know who to contact for sponsor $ for both the racer and series, go to any online tire retailer, there they are.

The sport is set to have a big change. It will upset some racers. It will make others happy. But when Lucas steps up and pays to broadcast the AMSOIL Cup, you have believe they want the best for the sport.
 

Jimmy8

Well-Known Member
#74
But when Lucas steps up and pays to broadcast the AMSOIL Cup, you have believe they want the best for the sport.
This right here... As the livestream/TV host this weekend my mind was blown. I had direct orders from Lucas to mention Amsoil every time we mentioned anything in regards to the Cup, AND they were running Amsoil TV commercials on Lucas TV... If that doesn't scream "We want what is best for the sport!" I don't know what does. What we saw this weekend would be the equivalent Coke and Pepsi or Ford and Chevy co-sponsoring something. To anyone talking down on Lucas, seriously, they are all in on this sport, and doing whatever it takes to make it survive. Just look at what you just witnessed. Will there be bumps in the road and a lot to figure out in the next few months and will some people get hurt feelings? Absolutely. I firmly believe the sport is in a much better place now than it was 12 months ago though.
 

sb4pro

Well-Known Member
#75
This right here... As the livestream/TV host this weekend my mind was blown. I had direct orders from Lucas to mention Amsoil every time we mentioned anything in regards to the Cup, AND they were running Amsoil TV commercials on Lucas TV... If that doesn't scream "We want what is best for the sport!" I don't know what does. What we saw this weekend would be the equivalent Coke and Pepsi or Ford and Chevy co-sponsoring something. To anyone talking down on Lucas, seriously, they are all in on this sport, and doing whatever it takes to make it survive. Just look at what you just witnessed. Will there be bumps in the road and a lot to figure out in the next few months and will some people get hurt feelings? Absolutely. I firmly believe the sport is in a much better place now than it was 12 months ago though.
Totally agree with you Jimmy , we’ve already taken the BIGGEST leap with the unification . The rest of the equation is just a matter of details which does and will take time . Would I as a fan love to see everything being perfect right now , absolutely . But I also know how things work in the real world . We as fans need to to look at it like this Bringing all the racers together under one sanctioned body was the first LEAP all the rest of the details are now just steps . You as racers need to make it known to the sanctioning body first what you all NEED then what you’ll be able to settle for . I have a good feeling about what’s going on in the sport and pray it only gets better from here ;)
 
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450grl

Well-Known Member
#76
This doesn't surprise me at all, having raced with Lucas since the series started......which is why I was so excited when they took over operations this year in the mid-west.....to keep this sport alive and well across the country! They also REALLY stretched their resources this year....the staff that has traveled to our races out here PLUS the races in the mid-west all had to adapt and step up for the good of the sport, all while trying to keep the growing pains to a minimum for the racers. I am hoping for one national series sooner than later.....however, I'm also all for two different series, without any overlapping dates, and a national championship series within the two series' for those of us who want to race both West Coast AND Mid West tracks! :)
 

Dirty Harry

Well-Known Member
#77
This doesn't surprise me at all, having raced with Lucas since the series started......which is why I was so excited when they took over operations this year in the mid-west.....to keep this sport alive and well across the country!
Really? After watching the Bob Pattison video from Utah a few years ago it definitely surprises me, but I'm glad to hear that is all water under the bridge now. Like others have said there will likely be some bumps along the way but it does seem like short course racing is heading in the right direction. Definitely my favorite motorsport to watch in person!
 

acers

Well-Known Member
#78
This right here... As the livestream/TV host this weekend my mind was blown. I had direct orders from Lucas to mention Amsoil every time we mentioned anything in regards to the Cup, AND they were running Amsoil TV commercials on Lucas TV... If that doesn't scream "We want what is best for the sport!" I don't know what does. What we saw this weekend would be the equivalent Coke and Pepsi or Ford and Chevy co-sponsoring something. To anyone talking down on Lucas, seriously, they are all in on this sport, and doing whatever it takes to make it survive. Just look at what you just witnessed. Will there be bumps in the road and a lot to figure out in the next few months and will some people get hurt feelings? Absolutely. I firmly believe the sport is in a much better place now than it was 12 months ago though.
You did a GREAT job at crandon
 
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