Filing a protest...how should it go?

J Prich

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What does the "right" process for filing a protest against a competitor look like?

- Should the protestor be anonymous or should protests be made public for the sake of transparency?

- What would be the ideal process to file that protest?

- How long should you have to file it?

- Should there be consequences for filing a protest that was not proven? If so, under what circumstances, and what should the consequences be?


My guess is that at pretty much every race at least one protest is filed from one competitor/team against another. Every org seems to have a slightly different protocol for receiving the protest, reviewing it, and publicizing it. Just curious what the peanut gallery here thinks right looks like in these cases.
 

jon coleman

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in road race, it is done at post race impound, thats where entire race group park& wait& " discuss" driving styles, if a protest is warranted in the mind of a post race racer, one seeks out the chief steward, but be carefull, the other racers and the corner workers usually saw a whole different race than the protestee, after about 30 minutes , if no bitching or moaning, group is released, if protested, you get to go get Any evidence, whitness statements, ect, most of the time the Chief steward allready talked to the head corner worker and has the whole story and its dropped after counseling the butthurt, as far as too many protests, its the same in any sport, reputation kicks in, and you are crying wolf from back of the pack, the top third drivers in all my racing experience Never protested, buy it IS fun at post race impound, some discussions get pretty animated
 

43mod

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Written , specific , prior to race if its not a changeable part ( ie wheel offsets ). Post race if course violation within 1 hr of your rig finishing . Cash equal to parts in question or winners purse w protest.
 

kyle_pc_75

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Another good case for unified rules among the orgs. Figure this one out and let me know.

Most of the protests I've seen in BOR have been related to an unclear rule where one team thinks another broke a rule or a situation on course that is he said/she said with no witnesses other than the two teams involved. Those are tough to arbitrate obviously. It used to be solely on the Race Director who didn't necessarily have all the info. When I ran BOR I honestly didn't even know all the rules. I knew how to get permits and run a stopwatch, haha.

Lately, we've picked a random arbitration committee from teams at Driver's Meeting to arbitrate in case the Race Director can't make a clear call. I believe it's kept anonymous as can be until a decision is made. So far it's worked without much issue.

I believe you have to file a protest within an hour of the finish closing.
 

J Prich

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Another good case for unified rules among the orgs. Figure this one out and let me know.

Most of the protests I've seen in BOR have been related to an unclear rule where one team thinks another broke a rule or a situation on course that is he said/she said with no witnesses other than the two teams involved. Those are tough to arbitrate obviously. It used to be solely on the Race Director who didn't necessarily have all the info. When I ran BOR I honestly didn't even know all the rules. I knew how to get permits and run a stopwatch, haha.

Lately, we've picked a random arbitration committee from teams at Driver's Meeting to arbitrate in case the Race Director can't make a clear call. I believe it's kept anonymous as can be until a decision is made. So far it's worked without much issue.

I believe you have to file a protest within an hour of the finish closing.
Kyle,
Thanks for sharing! Figured this wouldn't get much traction but this issue pops up a few times every year. I think it's interesting to think about whether protests should be made public or not and I think there are decent cases to be made for each way. I personally think max transparency is best but I get why some might be reluctant to file a public protest out of fear of retaliation, etc. In my mind I think it's better for everyone, not just the teams involved, if everything is out in the open though.

I also think there is room to improve the actual process of how a protest is filed. Agree that there should be a reasonable time limit but we've seen examples of evidence of rule breaking that didn't surface until a day or two after. In those cases, do you let the rule breaking slide because it's past the statute of limitations, or do you act? Also if the rule is you have a small window of time to make the protest and the only way to formally file it is to chase down a mysterious and elusive org official, I feel like that's a disincentive for a lot of folks.

I don't claim to have answers, I just think the protest process is an area of common concern that is not often addressed and maybe has room for improvement.
 

QurtysLyn

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Should there be consequences for filing a protest that was not proven? If so, under what circumstances, and what should the consequences be?

There shouldn't be, unless it's proven that the protest was filed maliciously. Just having consequences for non-proven protest will discourage people from issuing protests that might be legitimate, but they're not sure on.

Now, if it's determined someone is lying, being purposefully misleading, or otherwise being malicious in issuing a protest, there should be definite consequences.

Ideally, the protest should be filed with someone who is not mobile, a la at the Start Finish, or Post Tech Trailer, or some other official that isn't running around all day.
 

jon coleman

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There shouldn't be, unless it's proven that the protest was filed maliciously. Just having consequences for non-proven protest will discourage people from issuing protests that might be legitimate, but they're not sure on.

Now, if it's determined someone is lying, being purposefully misleading, or otherwise being malicious in issuing a protest, there should be definite consequences.

Ideally, the protest should be filed with someone who is not mobile, a la at the Start Finish, or Post Tech Trailer, or some other official that isn't running around all day.
scca your kicked out for lying, Big BIG no no filing a false protest
 

DanMcMillin

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9f8960bc2bcc90fdd36e78dbf1d3ad73.gif
 

J Prich

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Regarding the intent of the protestor, that gets grey really quickly. How do you differentiate between protests that were just invalid versus those that were filed with malice? The whole point of the rules, protests, etc IMO is to try to take as much subjectivity out as possible. If you're down to making value judgements about the intent of the person filing the protest, that gets awfully subjective.

Regarding transparency, if you saw someone break an obvious rule (in your class or not), why would people knowing it was you who filed the protest stop you from making it? I get that there may be degrees here...but if you saw someone obviously cheating (course cutting, illegal pitting, etc), and felt that it should not be allowed, would knowing that others would see that you filed the protest stop you from doing so?
 

QurtysLyn

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Wouldn't stop me, but I've also acted as a race official with BOR and a volunteer at the Mint since SNORE was running it.

On the other had, I've also had another racer come into my pit during a fuel stop because he didn't like something our driver did and threaten a fight over it. So I can see where anonymity might be valued for some people.
 

jon coleman

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one of the few benefits of mx , only protests were usually right after morning practice or the race in the track exit to pits area, the smart racers leave there helmet on, 👊
 

green787

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Why be sissies....??? You leave a deposit with the promoter.... should be an amount that really dings the competitors..... $500.00 minimum.... If the person filing the protest puts down his money, then they get it back if they are correct.... If the person is wrong, they forfeit the deposit.... It's racing.... it's about winning, and spending money to win.....
 

MTPyle

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I think the issue is with off-road money is less of a issue than ego. In other words having a $500 fine is nothing to most off-road teams. But if anyone thinks you are calling them out for cheating they will freak the F out and puff up their chest. Regardless if they actually cheated or not. Ask me how I know. LOL.

Personally I would not care about someone calling me out. Either prove it or it did not happen. I would not be pissed at who ever called me out. But that’s mostly because I am not a defensive jerk. Haha

I vote for transparency and everything on the up and up.

it was wrong in my opinion that BITD had a engine sent in for testing and did not mention who it was or what the results were. Lots of mystery with that deal and that does not make anyone feel good about the process. So again I think it should be made public and for all to see the process.

Mike
 

Bro_Gill

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Depends on what is being protested. If it is a safety issue, it should protested and no money needed to make the protest. If it is a driving infraction, protester should have evidence readily available instead of " I heard blah blah blah...' and no proof. More than an hour will be meeded for this, maybe days on something like a peninsula run. For technical protests, some amount of money should be put up for the initial work. If the protest stands, then a DQ should be given and protest money returned. If the protest fails, then the protest fee goes to the team to get their stuff back together and if the cost is more than originally put up, then the team that protested can make up the difference or not be allowed to race. Prevents fishing that way.
 

green787

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I think the issue is with off-road money is less of a issue than ego. In other words having a $500 fine is nothing to most off-road teams. But if anyone thinks you are calling them out for cheating they will freak the F out and puff up their chest. Regardless if they actually cheated or not. Ask me how I know. LOL.

Personally I would not care about someone calling me out. Either prove it or it did not happen. I would not be pissed at who ever called me out. But that’s mostly because I am not a defensive jerk. Haha

I vote for transparency and everything on the up and up.

it was wrong in my opinion that BITD had a engine sent in for testing and did not mention who it was or what the results were. Lots of mystery with that deal and that does not make anyone feel good about the process. So again I think it should be made public and for all to see the process.

Mike
I'm talking about post race inspection.... Like suspension travel, or cubic inches on the motor..... For you $2000.00 ...... Could be a sliding scale for the less rich budgeted limited racers.....
 

J Prich

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Depends on what is being protested. If it is a safety issue, it should protested and no money needed to make the protest. If it is a driving infraction, protester should have evidence readily available instead of " I heard blah blah blah...' and no proof. More than an hour will be meeded for this, maybe days on something like a peninsula run. For technical protests, some amount of money should be put up for the initial work. If the protest stands, then a DQ should be given and protest money returned. If the protest fails, then the protest fee goes to the team to get their stuff back together and if the cost is more than originally put up, then the team that protested can make up the difference or not be allowed to race. Prevents fishing that way.
Good call. I was actually going to say something similar about differentiating between the type of infractions. Competition rules versus safety rules etc. Also agree about a “deposit” on cheating claims.
 

J BomBer

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If you protest someone and they come back legal they keep your money, pretty sure all orgs have it where protests can only be from the 2nd finisher to the first, or third to second, but not 5th place protesting first. 500$ per item adds up quickly, can’t protest the transmission without specifics and at 500$ per item that can be intimidating.

seems safety rules that get broken end up with DQ or penalized, if you get caught cheating as in running a illegal car OR get caught course cutting instant DQ.
 
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