Fire Extinguisher 5LB.?

ErikIrvine

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Is SCORE requiring a 5 lb. fire extinguisher now instead of 2.5 lb.? Also, do you know if SNORE & MORE are as well and enforcing it?
 

LantanaTX

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Rulebook says 2.5. Two of them. One inside and One outside.


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dan200

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To you guys who are switching to big bottles (5 lb) like you shoulda had this whole time, I have been seeing the mounts used on the 2.5 lb bottles fail. They last a while but eventually they break because of the weight. Then the bottle falls off.
The solution I have Jamie from RaceCo makes for us.

Same concept but stronger and more low profile . $75.00. These are nice but ya have to weld them on. My data sucks today here at the track so I'll load a pic when I get somewhere else. (You might have to remind me)



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5racer

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get a good shovel they work way better than any fire extg will ever work when your poop is on fire you will be surprised how much dirt you can move ,but rules are rules and we all know how they look after us in a perfect world
 

5racer

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To you guys who are switching to big bottles (5 lb) like you shoulda had this whole time, I have been seeing the mounts used on the 2.5 lb bottles fail. They last a while but eventually they break because of the weight. Then the bottle falls off.
The solution I have Jamie from RaceCo makes for us.

Same concept but stronger and more low profile . $75.00. These are nice but ya have to weld them on. My data sucks today here at the track so I'll load a pic when I get somewhere else. (You might have to remind me)



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Then why not have two 2.5 bottles and know they will stay with car than one 5lb and its a crap shoot if its there when you need it makes no sense at all.who comes up with of these rules .and if anything how come on -board systems are not mandatory .who cares about the car on fire i would be more worried about me on fire .most fires are after a huge crash do they think that these 5lb bottles will be there after a huge hit. just my old school opinion
 

Zambo

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I don't think anybody is switching to 5lb units so they only have to carry one instead of two. You still need one inside and one outside I think. I carry the big ones just so I have more retardant to use if I ever need it. BTW I've seen plenty of fires that start not because of a yard sale but because of a broken hose or something. I've only had one fire and that was because the header separated and the O2 sensor sensed a lean condition and started dumping fuel into the motor, much of which went unburnt and caused the fire. My external extinguishers were perfect for the job.
 

ErikIrvine

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Sounds like I will be putting a 2-1/2 on there based on these responses lol.
 

Wendell #527

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I've had flame out systems in all my race cars in addition to extinguishers ever since I burned up my buddys arms and legs one night.
 

dan200

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Then why not have two 2.5 bottles and know they will stay with car than one 5lb and its a crap shoot if its there when you need it makes no sense at all.who comes up with of these rules .and if anything how come on -board systems are not mandatory .who cares about the car on fire i would be more worried about me on fire .most fires are after a huge crash do they think that these 5lb bottles will be there after a huge hit. just my old school opinion

You're right.

Racers should carry only the minimum amount of fire protection on their race car. It was dumb of me to suggest otherwise.


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tapeworm

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You're right.

Racers should carry only the minimum amount of fire protection on their race car. It was dumb of me to suggest otherwise.


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It doesn’t matter what size they carry if they don’t know how to use it. Without training it’s just added weight. Yes it could help but odds are not stacked in your favor. Just simply having the tool does not increase the chances of it working. This is just my opinion but a class of some sort on how to use an extinguisher would be better than increasing the minimum size. It doesn’t matter how much dry chem is applied to a fire if it isn’t applied properly.

I do commend you on your efforts to increase the safety of others though. That is an admirable action sir.


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Honda48X

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It doesn’t matter what size they carry if they don’t know how to use it. Without training it’s just added weight. Yes it could help but odds are not stacked in your favor. Just simply having the tool does not increase the chances of it working. This is just my opinion but a class of some sort on how to use an extinguisher would be better than increasing the minimum size. It doesn’t matter how much dry chem is applied to a fire if it isn’t applied properly.

I do commend you on your efforts to increase the safety of others though. That is an admirable action sir.


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PASS

P Pull the pin
A Aim at the base of the fire
S Squeeze the handle
S Sweep back and forth

Remember PASS::: Pull, Aim, Squeeze, Sweep
 

dan200

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I do commend you on your efforts to increase the safety of others though. That is an admirable action sir.


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Thanks.

Here's a pic of the mount Raceco makes I was talking about earlier. (Ya know, the one nobody needs. )

IMG_4625.JPG




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vegasloki

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Then why not have two 2.5 bottles and know they will stay with car than one 5lb and its a crap shoot if its there when you need it makes no sense at all.who comes up with of these rules .and if anything how come on -board systems are not mandatory .who cares about the car on fire i would be more worried about me on fire .most fires are after a huge crash do they think that these 5lb bottles will be there after a huge hit. just my old school opinion

Most of the race car fires I've seen are from lines popping off, brake fire catching body work on fire or an engine blowing and starting an oil or gas fire. A 2.5 isn't that big and if you have a fire big enough to need more and switch to another bottle you may lose any advantage you got on the fire in the first place.
 

ndvalium

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Someone asked who comes up with this-

Well that would be me for BITD. We implemented this last year based on discharge times and pressures.

A 2.5 extinguisher will discharge all chemical in less than 9 seconds. It is ineffective from further than 9 feet away with zero wind. And will cover approximately 10 feet of area

A 5lb extinguisher will discharge for approximately 15 seconds with a 16 foot effective range and will discharge 40 feet of area.



Now all of this is based on an extinguisher in good condition and routinely serviced. One thing I can’t stress enough is teams should have there dry chemical extinguishers inspected all the time. If you aren’t willing to do that, then take a couple minutes and make sure to smack them a few times upside down with a dead blow hammer. Dry chemical extinguishers compact in the bottom from constant g-outs on the course. I have seen extinguishers have less than 2 second discharge due to the chemical being compacted in the bottom. Shake them up and make sure you feel the chemical moving around.

Those that have switched to the foam extinguishers should also have them serviced and inspected. It is possible for pick up tubes to crack or break off from the sloshing of the foam in the extinguisher. This renders them useless if that happens.


As far as on board systems, I think they are great idea however they lose their effectiveness in many vehicles based on open engine compartments as well as the position of the vehicle when it catches fire. A vehicle upside down pulling the pin depending on the agent may or may not be effective.

Fire sucks. No way around it. BITD has done what we feel is a reasonable request of the racers for their protection at this point. We have tried to make it safer for crews and staff as well at pit areas with implementation of pit standards.

We will be offering fire extinguisher training classes next year at The Parker 425 as well. We did this two years ago and denied different type and size extinguishers. We will be having people practice putting out fuel fires on Tech day in the python for those that may be interested in learning more.




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Bro_Gill

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Just to clarify, As far as I know, extinguishers are rated by U.L. I am not aware of any 5lb extinguisher that will put down a rated 40 square foot agent pattern that successfully extinguishes fire. I believe a 5lb extinguisher is generally a 2A, 10B, C rating from Underwriters Lab. This would be 2 cubic feet of a common class A combustible, 10 square feet of a class B flammable liquid, and will work on a Class C fire without conducting electricity. This is established by doing actual fire extinguishing in the lab with actual results used for the ratings. Unless you have something different, please use the ratings established by the UL for actual real world numbers the public should expect.
 

Maxwell_99

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Just to clarify, As far as I know, extinguishers are rated by U.L. I am not aware of any 5lb extinguisher that will put down a rated 40 square foot agent pattern that successfully extinguishes fire. I believe a 5lb extinguisher is generally a 2A, 10B, C rating from Underwriters Lab. This would be 2 cubic feet of a common class A combustible, 10 square feet of a class B flammable liquid, and will work on a Class C fire without conducting electricity. This is established by doing actual fire extinguishing in the lab with actual results used for the ratings. Unless you have something different, please use the ratings established by the UL for actual real world numbers the public should expect.

While you're close on the ratings, they're a little off. The 'A' ratings are equal to 1 1/4 gallon of water. Therefor a 2A extinguisher is rated to the same as 2 1/2 gallons of water. The number in front of the 'B' is square feet. 'C' just means that is us suitable for charged electrical equipment.

http://www.bettendorf.org/egov/docs/1160167747_549163.pdf




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ndvalium

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Just to clarify, As far as I know, extinguishers are rated by U.L. I am not aware of any 5lb extinguisher that will put down a rated 40 square foot agent pattern that successfully extinguishes fire. I believe a 5lb extinguisher is generally a 2A, 10B, C rating from Underwriters Lab. This would be 2 cubic feet of a common class A combustible, 10 square feet of a class B flammable liquid, and will work on a Class C fire without conducting electricity. This is established by doing actual fire extinguishing in the lab with actual results used for the ratings. Unless you have something different, please use the ratings established by the UL for actual real world numbers the public should expect.

Numbers are based on UL testing of Ansul 5lb dry chemical extinguishers and based on usage by a Novice user.

Listed directly from Ansul site. Other manufacturers certainly may vary but should be within the same then since they are all charged with same agent and pressures.


https://www.ansul.com/en/us/DocMedia/F-90178.pdf




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Bro_Gill

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ndvalium- There are tons of 5lb extinguishers out there that are not 40B rated. That is why I bring this up. Are you after actual values or are you after weight only? I don't want a team told they aren't legal because of some unclear requirement. Do you want a 40B rating or 5lbs.?
 
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