Fueling question

RFS Motorsports

Well-Known Member
We are looking to change the way we fuel the truck. We have talked about going to a "dry break" system and just want to see what other options are out there. Someone told me they had pressurized the drums with co2 or something like that. They said it was a good way of fueling because you do not have to take the fuel out of the drums or set up the dry break. What options do you guys know of. I am sure you guys have a lot of ways of doing it. Just want something faster and easier than the dump cans. Thanks in advance for your input.
 

Chase 2

Well-Known Member
Any fueling system that operates under pressure is extremely dangerous. This goes for fueling towers (hydrostatic pressure powered) or low pressure inert gas driven systems. IMHO no system that can deliver 50 gallons of fuel in less than 2 or 3 minuets should be operated by anyone but the most professional of crews. These systems have the potential to kill people and burn everything in the pit to the ground in a matter of seconds. Many of the trophy trucks and class one cars I've stabbed with a dry brake are not 100% set up properly and have problems with vents and overflows. I've seen fuel cells pressurized from overfilling dump up to 5 gallons of fuel on the ground in pits. I was with the Herzog Vortec team at Llano Colorado in 1999 when a damaged overflow line dumped fuel on to Larry Ragland's rear caliper causing fire which flashed, was put out, flashed a second time, put out again, and flashed one more time before it was finally completely put out. I was in the process of starting to pull Steve Bothwell (the co-dawg) out through the front window when it finally was put out. I've had the "O" rings on Redhead drybrakes cut because I didn't pull out exactly square. The cut "O" ring jams the valve causing a spray of fuel like a fire hose until the pressure in the hose drops (yes even with a deadman valve the hose still pressurises). BJ Baldwin in an interview discussed a cut "O" ring spraying the cab of his truck full of fuel during one pit stop. Scared the hell out of everyone involved. These are just some of the problems I've seen with the top teams, who practice repeatedly, and have tons of experienced people. Fuel towers are dangerous enough the other systems are even more so. If you don't know about these system/techniques you should stay far far away from them, lest someone gets killed. Weekend warriors and volunteers are the last people in the world who should operate anything like this.
 

Stimpy

Well-Known Member
Any fueling system that operates under pressure is extremely dangerous. This goes for fueling towers (hydrostatic pressure powered) or low pressure inert gas driven systems. IMHO no system that can deliver 50 gallons of fuel in less than 2 or 3 minuets should be operated by anyone but the most professional of crews. These systems have the potential to kill people and burn everything in the pit to the ground in a matter of seconds. Many of the trophy trucks and class one cars I've stabbed with a dry brake are not 100% set up properly and have problems with vents and overflows. I've seen fuel cells pressurized from overfilling dump up to 5 gallons of fuel on the ground in pits. I was with the Herzog Vortec team at Llano Colorado in 1999 when a damaged overflow line dumped fuel on to Larry Ragland's rear caliper causing fire which flashed, was put out, flashed a second time, put out again, and flashed one more time before it was finally completely put out. I was in the process of starting to pull Steve Bothwell (the co-dawg) out through the front window when it finally was put out. I've had the "O" rings on Redhead drybrakes cut because I didn't pull out exactly square. The cut "O" ring jams the valve causing a spray of fuel like a fire hose until the pressure in the hose drops (yes even with a deadman valve the hose still pressurises). BJ Baldwin in an interview discussed a cut "O" ring spraying the cab of his truck full of fuel during one pit stop. Scared the hell out of everyone involved. These are just some of the problems I've seen with the top teams, who practice repeatedly, and have tons of experienced people. Fuel towers are dangerous enough the other systems are even more so. If you don't know about these system/techniques you should stay far far away from them, lest someone gets killed. Weekend warriors and volunteers are the last people in the world who should operate anything like this.
Being one of those guys who uses a fuel tower on a professional team. They can be tricky! 80+ gallons of race fuel 10' in the air. Hot exhaust, Scorching brakes! You really haft to be on your game!Things happen way to fast! Fire suits and a helmet are a must! You or a team mate don't want to become a burn victim multiple hours from help in the middle of Baja!
Ground your Tower! It only takes a few minutes and can save lives. I don't know how many times I've seen teams not do this or even know they were supposed to. In one instance I saw a team set up a tower under a power line without grounding. Before they filled the tower I had them touch it and "Zap!" The looks on their faces said it all.
I agree with Craig 100% " Weekend warriors and volunteers are the last people in the world that should operate fuel towers or Charged fuel delivery systems.

You don't have enough fire extinguishers! Period.

Please take this to heart.
 

dan200

#BSF200
Being one of those guys who uses a fuel tower on a professional team. They can be tricky! 80+ gallons of race fuel 10' in the air. Hot exhaust, Scorching brakes! You really haft to be on your game!Things happen way to fast! Fire suits and a helmet are a must! You or a team mate don't want to become a burn victim multiple hours from help in the middle of Baja!
Ground your Tower! It only takes a few minutes and can save lives. I don't know how many times I've seen teams not do this or even know they were supposed to. In one instance I saw a team set up a tower under a power line without grounding. Before they filled the tower I had them touch it and "Zap!" The looks on their faces said it all.
I agree with Craig 100% " Weekend warriors and volunteers are the last people in the world that should operate fuel towers or Charged fuel delivery systems.

You don't have enough fire extinguishers! Period.

Please take this to heart.
My friend Kevin has pitted for Alan also. I think he told me everyone on the team from the rear tire and forward wears a fire suit when they pit. At first it seemed excessive when I heard that. Not any more...
 

Stimpy

Well-Known Member
Yes Dan, from the rear tire back. Tell Kevin Hi!
 

Shannon

Bear on a Unicycle
We are looking to change the way we fuel the truck. We have talked about going to a "dry break" system and just want to see what other options are out there. Someone told me they had pressurized the drums with co2 or something like that. They said it was a good way of fueling because you do not have to take the fuel out of the drums or set up the dry break. What options do you guys know of. I am sure you guys have a lot of ways of doing it. Just want something faster and easier than the dump cans. Thanks in advance for your input.
In other word's, just stick with the dump can's for now..You don't have any venting problems do you ? The only time fueling hurts you is when thats ALL your doing,As for me I think it's a good idea to have someone look over the car when fueling,a lot of things get found in pits,and get corrected before there is a bigger problem.

When you step up to TT then things will have to change until then just chill!!!:):)
 

dan200

#BSF200
Yes Dan, from the rear tire back. Tell Kevin Hi!
Will do. I did a remote pit with him @ Caliente. Every time I hang out with him I learn something I otherwise would have probably ended up learning the hard way.:eek:

Heck, he even knows the top secret way to sit alongside the course, in the dirt, all day and never have the lenses on your sunglasses get dusty. I swear, when he showed us the secret we sat there in amazement... It was literally like giving the gift of sight to the blind.

This was the secret in case I am NOT the only guy who did not know about these before. They get your glasses the cleanest they have ever been and the anti static keeps them that way in the dust all day. I bet it works great on helmets also......

http://www.discountofficeitems.com/...eaning Tissue&utm_campaign=Bausch & Lomb, Inc

Sorry for the hijack.:eek: Keep the fueling info coming...
 

M.Harvey1600

Well-Known Member
yeah i was on a 3 man fueling team for damen jefferies and we had to wear fire suits and helmets every time... we would practice constantly to make sure we didn't have a mistake... what i learned is that a vehicle with a body creates so much static electricity as its moving along that not only do U HAVE TO GROUND THE TOWER BUT YOU MUST ALSO GROUND THE VEHICLE SO U COMPLETELY CLOSE OFF THE CIRCUIT! becuase u can get a static spark from the vehicle as u plug in... i know that ur tires are suppose to ground u out but this is just what i was taught... better safe than sorry


I still luv the system that mark miller and ryan arciero came up with at the 500 a few years ago. talk about thinking out of the box and being innovative... bringing more military technology into our sport was genius...
 

M.Harvey1600

Well-Known Member
you know wut i just thought of... wut about fighter jets that are refueled n flight??? dont they run the risk of static spark? being that there is no way to ground the plane.... just a curious thought if any one knows the answer that would b pretty cool
 

JPBart

Well-Known Member
Most people don't have a lot of respect for the dangers of fueling in our sport. The last team I fueled for laughed at me for donning a fire suit and helmet or head sock while fueling from a tower. They tolerated it but they thought it was stupid. I was the only person to bring a fire extinguisher. Pretty lame to risk all your equipment and lives so you don't look like a dork to someone. Personally I never thought wearing a fire suit while playing with 100 gallons of gas made you look stupid. The guys doing it wearing shorts and a t-shirt on the other hand...

Bottom line for me, I am a fan of fuel towers when done right. Towers are fine and possibly safer than dump cans IF you do it right and respect the dangers. You would need to train your crew on how to use it properly and what to do in case of a problem and have more than enough fire suppression equipment around just in case. A pressurized system is just too dangerous for a hobby sport imho. I don't care what anyone says. NEVER pressurize a fuel drum. I used to pressure test new drums for a manufacturer to meet DOT regs. You would not believe what a few psi will do to a drum and if it fails you won't want to be within 50' of it. We did it with water and it was pretty crazy when they failed. The thought of that happening with race fuel is just scary. They simply are not designed to handle more than ambient pressure.

Being a fire fighter I am sure you won't have any trouble training your people on how to deal with a pit fire. Please, don't use a pressurized system no matter what anyone tells you.
 

GunnSlinger

Captain Backpack
Any fueling system that operates under pressure is extremely dangerous. This goes for fueling towers (hydrostatic pressure powered) or low pressure inert gas driven systems. IMHO no system that can deliver 50 gallons of fuel in less than 2 or 3 minuets should be operated by anyone but the most professional of crews. These systems have the potential to kill people and burn everything in the pit to the ground in a matter of seconds. Many of the trophy trucks and class one cars I've stabbed with a dry brake are not 100% set up properly and have problems with vents and overflows. I've seen fuel cells pressurized from overfilling dump up to 5 gallons of fuel on the ground in pits. I was with the Herzog Vortec team at Llano Colorado in 1999 when a damaged overflow line dumped fuel on to Larry Ragland's rear caliper causing fire which flashed, was put out, flashed a second time, put out again, and flashed one more time before it was finally completely put out. I was in the process of starting to pull Steve Bothwell (the co-dawg) out through the front window when it finally was put out. I've had the "O" rings on Redhead drybrakes cut because I didn't pull out exactly square. The cut "O" ring jams the valve causing a spray of fuel like a fire hose until the pressure in the hose drops (yes even with a deadman valve the hose still pressurises). BJ Baldwin in an interview discussed a cut "O" ring spraying the cab of his truck full of fuel during one pit stop. Scared the hell out of everyone involved. These are just some of the problems I've seen with the top teams, who practice repeatedly, and have tons of experienced people. Fuel towers are dangerous enough the other systems are even more so. If you don't know about these system/techniques you should stay far far away from them, lest someone gets killed. Weekend warriors and volunteers are the last people in the world who should operate anything like this.
Being one of those guys who uses a fuel tower on a professional team. They can be tricky! 80+ gallons of race fuel 10' in the air. Hot exhaust, Scorching brakes! You really haft to be on your game!Things happen way to fast! Fire suits and a helmet are a must! You or a team mate don't want to become a burn victim multiple hours from help in the middle of Baja!
Ground your Tower! It only takes a few minutes and can save lives. I don't know how many times I've seen teams not do this or even know they were supposed to. In one instance I saw a team set up a tower under a power line without grounding. Before they filled the tower I had them touch it and "Zap!" The looks on their faces said it all.
I agree with Craig 100% " Weekend warriors and volunteers are the last people in the world that should operate fuel towers or Charged fuel delivery systems.

You don't have enough fire extinguishers! Period.

Please take this to heart.
... these 2 posts nail it right on the head!!!.....

positive rep for these two....!!!


..not to mention YOU NEED A PRETTY GOOD SIZED GUY BEHIND THE HANDLES OF THE DRY BREAK.......i watched "Fast eddie" (on Pistol Pets team) fuel a Trophy light with the dry break ... and eddie out weighs me by AT LEAST 100 lbs and he really working to make sure he fueled properly..... i could only imagine how bad i would get worked behind that dry break.


i know my place in the pit..... and behind the dry break is NOT my place...
 

jo maoma

Heisenberg
you know wut i just thought of... wut about fighter jets that are refueled n flight??? dont they run the risk of static spark? being that there is no way to ground the plane.... just a curious thought if any one knows the answer that would b pretty cool

a jet aircraft uses aviation kerosine that has a flash point about
150º higher than gasoline so it's basically a non-issue...
 

Mike_Cohen

Well-Known Member
Any type of fueling process is dangerous and has the potential for disaster. This is true for dump cans, utility jugs, dry break systems, etcetera.
We are big supporters of dry break systems whether they are used on dump cans or tower systems. We offer complete systems, towers, and dump cans (http://www.racerxms.com/fuel-cells.html). Even though we offer the dry break components at very competitive prices, they are still a significant investment.

As for fueling without dry break components, we only like to see fueling where the hose goes over the filler neck and against a splash shield. You can have an external bead rolled onto the filler neck to aid in sealing the hose onto the filler neck. The benefit to this is that when the fuel begins to gurgle through the fuel cell vent, instead of pulling back the dump can or fuel source hastily, risking splashed fuel from the filler, you can patiently wait until you are sure that the cell is full while the vent fills. Then you can lower the dump can or fuel source safely and pull back without having the risk of fuel spray and vapor everywhere. The worst that will happen is that you may have some excess fuel go out through the vent line as opposed to on your crew or drivers.

In addition, regardless of your fueling source, make sure that your fuel cell has at least a 1” vent with hose properly and safely routed to prevent spillage during a rollover in case the check valve does not work properly. Venting the fuel cell is very important in keeping the flow of fuel travelling quickly and efficiently into your vehicle.

For those of you interested in converting to dry break systems or talk about ways of improving your existing systems for safety and speed, please feel free to call me to discuss your options. There are several internal and external modifications that need to occur in order for you to capitalize in the efficiencies and speed of dry break components.

Best regards,
Mike Cohen
Racer X Motorsports, Inc.
619-258-RACE (7223)
mike@RacerXms.com
 

M.Harvey1600

Well-Known Member
a jet aircraft uses aviation kerosine that has a flash point about
150º higher than gasoline so it's basically a non-issue...
thanx i figured it had sumthin 2 do with the aviation style fuel....
 

DanDan

Well-Known Member
Slight thread jack:

Be careful when filling cans in the back of a truck as well. The guys at El Cap in Lakeside have a cable attached to the VP pump and some of the guys will hand you the cable and tell you to attach it to the drum. Some of them, I have had to ask for the cable. There are other places that don't have a cable but there is a stud sticking out the front of the pump and it is up to you to connect your own cable between the pump and the drum. Jumper cables work fine for this.

Smaller containers should be taken out of the back of the truck and placed on the ground. I saw a guy pull into the gas station across the street from the local watering hole to fill up a small plastic can. He left it in the truck and started pumping. During the fill the small can burst into flames and when he recoiled from the can the nozzle was still pumping and he sprayed the back of his truck with flaming gas. Not a pretty sight.

The chances may be slight but ...
 

Bmello

Well-Known Member
This was the secret in case I am NOT the only guy who did not know about these before. They get your glasses the cleanest they have ever been and the anti static keeps them that way in the dust all day. I bet it works great on helmets also......

http://www.discountofficeitems.com/s... Lomb, Inc


Do you think this would somewhat work on goggles? Sorry to interrupt the thread.
 

M.Harvey1600

Well-Known Member
This was the secret in case I am NOT the only guy who did not know about these before. They get your glasses the cleanest they have ever been and the anti static keeps them that way in the dust all day. I bet it works great on helmets also......

http://www.discountofficeitems.com/s... Lomb, Inc


Do you think this would somewhat work on goggles? Sorry to interrupt the thread.
im sure they wood work on goggles.... im gonna try them out on my helmet visor and also the rock sheilds for my HELLA's... they always get dust under them and we eventually have to take them off.... tried siliconing them up to seal them completely and it worked great but looked like crap.... willing to try n e thing at least once...

my bad OKAY back to the fueling thread...:D
 

Chase 2

Well-Known Member
...and against SCORE Rules.
Would you please provide the specific rule, perhaps cut & paste it here? You do realize that a tower is technically a system that is pressurized hydrostaticlly, right?
 
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