Future state of UTV Classes

NIKAL

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Dave, why do we have to even consider or entertain the idea of an unlimited class with open engine displacement?

As mentioned before. ROVHA who created the standards of a ROV, which is a UTV, had these standards made into laws that say a UTV may not have more then 1000cc. There are only 6 requirements to be listed as a ROV/UTV, and displacement is one of them. CVC 500 in the vehicle code book. This is the standards the industry wanted.

If a manufacture chooses to build a vehicle with more then 1000cc, that’s great! But it’s not a UTV by the standards the UTV industry set.
 

Big Hock

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But how much adderall is consumed? That seems to be the most important thing in all of desert racing right now.
 

Dave Cole 4454

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The challenge was to come up with rules that everyone could build to and promoters would plan around.

Where and when they race is a different story.

Unlimited UTVs (as defined here) are a small 4400 car in my mind and will race heads up with the big cars.

SCORE has a different approach, and that is fine.

I am very, very aware of the California Vehicle Code and how/why the 1000cc designation came about.

I almost want to buy a 'big motor' UTV just for the fun of dealing with the helmet police.
 

nimrod

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Isn’t there some guy that I should look up and know his name that generally pulls top 15 finishes in a UTV in the 4400 KOH race?
 

Bro_Gill

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"Unlimited UTVs (as defined here) are a small 4400 car in my mind and will race heads up with the big cars"

As it should be. You don't have to run a V8 in class 1 to be a class 1.
 

michael.gonzalez

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But you DO have to run a 4cyl to be in class 10.

This only further cements the fact that UTV's will outpace class 10 car's in the future.

Imagine taking the winning class 10 car and:
-removing the transaxle and Ecotec (~250hp, ~400lb)
-replacing with UTV trans (300hp+, ~200lb)
 

Bro_Gill

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But you DO have to run a 4cyl to be in class 10.

This only further cements the fact that UTV's will outpace class 10 car's in the future.

Imagine taking the winning class 10 car and:
-removing the transaxle and Ecotec (~250hp, ~400lb)
-replacing with UTV trans (300hp+, ~200lb)
But that isn't 10 legal, so it goes no where but to class 1.
 

Dave Cole 4454

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I acknowledged it in the rulebook so it didnt somehow get shoehorned in later.

Who cares if the new Unlimited UTV beats a class 10. By that perspective, youd be bummed TTs and Class 1 exist.

If you are in a C10, you are racing against your class, not the overall.

If C10 rules are so ambiguous that this unicorn is a concern, I would say you need to worry about C10 rules and not the UTV section of the rulebook.
 

michael.gonzalez

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I would say you need to worry about C10 rules and not the UTV section of the rulebook.
That is kind of what I am getting at. Neither class needs a major rule overhaul. I actually like the freedom that Class 10 gives.

Leave class 10 as ecotec only.
Leave UTV as 1000cc only.

It seems you are wanting the same, but are leaving a catch-all class to avoid ticking off the top-dollar guys making these baller "Unlimited UTV"s. I see the business side of not turning away racers.
 
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NIKAL

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I acknowledged it in the rulebook so it didnt somehow get shoehorned in later.

Who cares if the new Unlimited UTV beats a class 10. By that perspective, youd be bummed TTs and Class 1 exist.

If you are in a C10, you are racing against your class, not the overall.

If C10 rules are so ambiguous that this unicorn is a concern, I would say you need to worry about C10 rules and not the UTV section of the rulebook.
Dave I don’t think anyone is thinking or saying run a UTV in class 10. But what you could do in theory do is take a class 10 car and put a UTV trans with any CC engine and become a UTV Unlimited class car. How does that help or support the manufactures? What motivation do they have to stay in the sport if you building class 10 style cars with any engine and just a UTV trans and calling it a UTV. Your rules and Score’s don’t even state it needs to be 4wd.

Because this is all about keeping the manufactures and the aftermarket UTV industry involved. As soon as they leave the UTV class it just becomes another class that dies off.

Look at the Sand Show. It’s 90% UTV’s. And 65% of those UTV accessories companies are in racing. Kill the UTV concept in racing and they will invest their money somewhere else.
 

ltr450rider

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Seems smart to offer an Unlimited UTV class to allow others to "run what you brung" attitude that made off-road racing what it is, but keep the basic mechanics of production UTVs in place to prevent complete runaway of the class by any one overspending team.

Max width rule
Max wheelbase rule
Max 35" tire size rule
Must be production based engine block/head castings, aftermarket internals/power adders ok
Must be production based trans/diff castings/housings, aftermarket internals ok
Specific safety requirements on roll cage protection factors (tube diameters, wall thickness, gusseting, etc.)

The drivetrain rule would most likely be what keeps this class somewhat in check as it would be very expensive to develop a one-off trans and diff. It would also keep the max speeds in check as faster cars are harder on drivetrain through the rough. Who cares if someone wants to throw a $50k 400HP engine if the drivetrain is the limiting factor of making it through a race.

Turbo and N/A Production classes should be limited to production engines and drivetrains (after production prep should be allowed for longevity of parts), factory suspension points, 33" max tire size, factory width and wheelbase.

The fact is, any limited class will require a more in depth rulebook that also requires proper policing by the race sanctioning body. There will be certain parts that will need to require some aftermarket support to offer more strength and longevity to any items that commonly fail or need replacement more often, such as engine components, trans/diff gears, axles/CV's, suspension components, etc. The key will be only allowing aftermarket reproduction of parts that do not necessarily add any performance.

Dave says that he wants to not have to go in depth for any tech inspection, but I think that has to fall on the sanctioning body to police the racers and prevent any cheating. People will find a way to cheat in any type of competition, it is up to the promoters/sanctioning body's to prevent and catch those that try.
 

jon coleman

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new punishment for infractions of Daves new utv rules;
 

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Dave Cole 4454

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Ok, stupid thought. Is there any way to see fuel burn rate reading data from stock ecms?

My feeble brain keeps wrapping back to you cant make more power without adding more energy (fuel either quantity or quality)

Im trying to solve for bored and stroked motors.
 

MTPyle

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Too easy to trick the fuel consumption calcs. Only way to limit power is restricter plate and limit the intake air flow. That limits power but makes things get expensive fast. Haha

Just no easy way to stop cheaters. They have more time and money to put into cheating than you have to catch them. Haha all you can do is make them scared as hell of getting caught.

Mike
 

Bro_Gill

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Require a supplied pump gas with a max octane rating, like 91 octane for the class. Motors get expensive to rebuild when octane ratings are the issue higher up.
 

E motorsports

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Do any class 10's bore and stroke their motors for more displacement?
1600's?
9's?
Class 11's?
class 9 cannot bore or stroke and if you suspect a competitor of doing either you can claim his motor (short block) for $2500
so its self policing
you dont want to spend 5 grand on a cheater motor that can be claimed for $2500
 

ErickK

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class 9 cannot bore or stroke and if you suspect a competitor of doing either you can claim his motor (short block) for $2500
so its self policing
you dont want to spend 5 grand on a cheater motor that can be claimed for $2500
Not if you've already cleaned up on some of the fat Class 9 MORE and SNORE bonuses. lol
 

GageFamilyRacing

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I'd like to see these class rules implemented. Just a rough baseline but I think it would keep everyone racing and the manufactures making money. Sounds like the manufactures don't want someone with a bunch of money to build some crazy "UTV" to just dominate the sport and I get that. With 5 classes purely built to showcase what the manufactures are building with the help of aftermarket companies to get them race ready they should be good and only one of those 5 are letting people think outside the box. Leave an Open/Unlimited class to see what smaller shops can do with the manufactures help and to see what the aftermarket world to come up with to keep pushing the sport. The Open/Unlimited class should still be governed by a 1000cc engine, 33" tires, single shock per corner and you can only do so much with that combination.

Desert Classes

1. Pro Open - Open chassis, 80" wide, 33" tires, open engine 1000cc max Powersports engine (no car engine), open turbo/supercharger, single shock per corner, no air/hydro bump stops and the rest is open

2. Pro Turbo - Started life as a production UTV, 80" wide, 33" tires, stock lower frame, stock motor, stock turbo, stock suspension points, single shock per corner, no bump stops, hood and fenders required

3. Pro NA - Started life as a production UTV, 80" wide, 33" tires, stock lower frame, stock motor, stock suspension points, single shock per corner, no bump stops, hood and fenders required

4. Rally Stock Turbo - stock chassis with a cage and gussets, stock suspension with gussets or aftermarket stock replacement arms, stock motor trans and diffs, stock fuel tank or fuel cell not to exceed 12gal, all stock body panels required

5. Rally Stock NA - stock chassis with a cage and gussets, stock suspension with gussets or aftermarket stock replacement arms, stock motor trans and diffs, stock fuel tank or fuel cell not to exceed 12gal, all stock body panels required

Ultra4 Classes

1. Pro Open - Open chassis, Open width, Open length, 1000cc powersports engine, Open turbo/supercharger, 35" tires, portals ok, Basically everything is open with the exception of tire size and engine size.

2. Sportsman UTV - Production based stock chassis with a cage and gussets, 80" width and must retain stock suspension points, no portals, stock motor/trans and diffs, stock fuel tank or fuel cell not to exceed 12gal, all stock body panels required
 
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