Getting a plate for a prerunner

Sheepdog

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AZ7000, no plates is a civil infraction- who cares.

Cloning a vehicle with a VIN plate and title from another vehicle, is a felony.

A felony criminal conviction would be life-altering. It would mean prison time, loss of voting rights, loss of gun rights, and so on.

The seized vehicle would go to the crusher.

And convicted felons can be permanently denied entry into Mexico.
 
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E.Hagle

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AZ7000, no plates is a civil infraction- who cares.

Cloning a vehicle with a VIN plate and title from another vehicle, is a felony.

A felony criminal conviction would be life-altering. It would mean prison time, loss of voting rights, loss of gun rights, and so on.

The seized vehicle would go to the crusher.

And convicted felons can be permanently denied entry into Mexico.
Why does that law carry such a heavy penalty if you are not a car thief? Seems pretty drastic for a guy who just wants to avoid dealing with a government entity (DMV) filled with incompetent employees that hardly see eye to eye with our type of community.
 
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Sheepdog

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I think you are mixing up race vehicles...and you don't understand that not all pre-runners are built from former street vehicles. I would imagine that the race vehicles you owned were either built by a major manufacturer or they started at street vehicles. All my "race" dirt bikes came with titles, because they were built by Yamaha, Honda, or Kawasaki. UTVs have titles too. I doubt a Mason or Geiser Trophy Truck comes with a title.

The pre-runner in question is really no different than an actual custom built race truck like Pyle owns in the eyes of the law. They are custom built, tube chassis vehicles, that were never designed to be registered or titled. These vehicles won't pass a smog test, do not have turn signals, mud flaps, or windshields (which are not a requirement in AZ)

And with the way the authorities are in Mexico I completely get the desire for a plated vehicle with registration. It is required to show registration at the border and sometimes they want to verify the VIN.

I understand all of that. I've asked Mike why his truck "never had a title", and he's never come out and responded by telling me that it's because it was built from scratch in a shop.

I personally have no issue with what Pyle did. I don't believe he is in any way trying to cheat the system in the US. In fact, Utah gets some fees from him every year and an insurance company collects money from him on a vehicle that never sees the street.

I have no issue with it either- he's a big boy, and can make his own life choices, and live with the consequences of those choices.

But this is a public forum, and folks reading this might read what he did, think it was a good idea, and do what he did, not knowing the consequences of doing that.

And again, I don't think that criminal activity (or condoning criminal activity) is healthy for the sport.
 

Sheepdog

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Why does that law carry such a heavy vehicle if you are not a car thief? Seems pretty drastic for a guy who just wants to avoid dealing with a government entity (DMV) filled with incompetent employees that hardly see eye to eye with our type of community.

I am with you on that too. I absolutely HATE dealing with the DMV.

But this isn't about avoiding the DMV- registering a vehicle fraudulently is still registering a vehicle, and still dealing with the DMV. The REAL reason, is to avoid complying with the law in the state one chooses to live in, which is simply a nicer way of saying "committing a crime".

Cloning is a method used by car thieves. And I think we probably all feel the same about vehicle thieves- I spent about 30 years of my life catching them.

California, like many states, including all three states that Mike owns property in, already have procedures to legitimately title and register "special construction" type vehicles with state-assigned "VIN" like ID numbers.
 

AZ7000'

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Our prerunner is a “race car” by every definition in the book other than it’s a 3 seater.
Some 3 seaters have been known to race!
 

Josh 8

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Social justice warrior, having to virtue signal to a crowd when know one wants it, asked for it or needs it. Disguising it as I am just trying to help and/or I don’t want anyone else making these mistakes.

Is there not enough of this in world now? Do we need more here?
 
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BRINGTHERUCKUS

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After reading all of Sheepdogs posts.
the sandlot 90s GIF
 

This old rz

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Funny thread. Brings back memories...some good, some not so cool.
Been down that road do have friends. A friend built up a Lil Toyota way back in the 90s, he bought from as a salvage, changed VIN tags, didn't do a good job. Got it impounded, never got it back, cost him a couple thousand in fines.
Waaaay back in 93, I had a Mazda B2200Cab + pickup with a 383 stroker engine conversion, got sick of paying the smog guys $500.

Back then, illegal smog guys were going to prison if they were caught.

So I bought myself a little B2200 standard cab Stake bed in Glendale.. and when I needed to smog the fast truck I just swapped the vins with two cut dropped pop rivets and a dab o silicone.
Sure it was wrong but I do it again if I had the opportunity ....hell yeah!
Especially now that California has more than doubled registration fees.
I have eight motorcycles and three vehicles any idea how expensive that is here in California..? doesn't matter if your cars are 25 years old it's still freaking expensive.
F#ck this state.... Everybody gets a free ride and a handout but if you want to keep your father's old pickup truck you got to pay dearly....
It is what it is...I get it. I play by the rules I just don't have everything registered most are on Non Ops.

I think the only real problem is going to be by (whatever method you choose) is it if one files an insurance claim for compensation... Investigators get pretty savvy and you can't blame them.

Insurance fraud was absolutely RAMPANT in the 80s and 90s.
1.) I hung around with many off-roaders & motorcyclists who would buy brand new trucks or motorcycles.
2.) Then they would strip them and report them stolen.
3.) They would buy that vehicle back from the insurance company once it was recovered.
4.) Then they would reassemble the motorcycles or the trucks.

5.)PRESTO.. there they had it a brand new bronco Ford truck Toyota or any fast motorcycle of the day basically for free....
I knew guys that would use a fake driver's license and Nissan.... would give you a brand new truck for NO MONEY DOWN...& off you would go. guys would drive this brand new truck for over a year and then drop it like a hot potato...
The world was a better place then a lot more of the honor system was expected of its people...
I poop you not I probably knew two to three dozen people that had done this and that was just a relatively small group of people that I hung out with that's how easy it was for people to do stuff like this even a driver's license all you needed back then was a fake baptismal certificate or a birth certificate with a county seal stamp I had a friend that made many many thousands of dollars selling fake papers while he was going to college.
My friends weren't career criminals ..I am not kidding you they were veterans, police officers, firemen , and business owners.. sure we were young none of these guys that I still know would even think twice of doing that now and most of them would probably deny it out of embarrassment.
 
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dan200

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Frame was rusty so I repaired it lol. The nice lady at the state inspection station just laughed when I told her that. Not everyone that works for the state is as much of a buzz kill as sheepdog.

Hands Up Stop GIF by ION
 

JerryB

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You guys seem to be missing sheepdogs whole point. I've been following along here and find it funny we have no issues with spending 100k plus on a toy and then bitch and complain about having to spend a couple hundred bucks to register the thing. Like he mentioned, every state has a process to register just about anything, some cost more than others, some make the process easier than others, no one is disputing that. I'll speak for California, go get a bluetag if you need a vin number. If your car doesn't have all the accessories to be street legal, windshield, turn signals etc. then it's not going to be street legal but you can register it with a green sticker using the bluetag. It's not that difficult of a concept to understand.

The even funnier part is I guarantee everyone here, and I mean every one of you, would be screaming bloody murder to the officers who respond to a traffic collision you may be involved in, with some dirtbag who's car isn't registered and he has no insurance, "arrest him, tow his car, write him a ticket, on and on" I've heard it a thousand times. Yet here we are promoting doing the same thing.

Just don't be a hypocrite and if you are, don't be dumb enough to post your crimes on an internet forum.

And just for the record Mike, taking the vin from one car and putting it on your truck is cloning and it's illegal. Not judging, let's just be accurate here.
 

partybarge_pilot

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The problem with getting a new VIN from the CHP is it makes the vehicle the year it was issued, not the year it was constructed. For a special construction vehicle this raises a bunch of issues. This is why after getting a tag for my old glass car and dealing with the DMV, I removed the new tag, took the original paper work to AZ and registered it as a 1970 special construction as it should have been.

Fork you Komifornia.
 

JerryB

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Yes you are correct, there's a lot of issues you can run into trying to register a SPCN. And the insurance can be expensive if you're looking to insure it. As for the year model they assign it, that only matters really if you're planning on plating (smog issues to deal with) or green sticker just to be able to show registration crossing the border. The latter being pretty simple process.
 
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MTPyle

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JerryB

I assure you I am not doing this to save money. There is no easy way to get a title for a tube chassis race vehicle.

And if this was for a street legal vehicle I would agree with you. What I did was not what the law is trying to combat with the laws of “cloning”

Either way I am not saying it’s 100% legit. In fact I know it’s gray area and if someone wanted to really be a jerk they could make a stink.

But the only time we use the title or show the VIN is when crossing the border. They could care less about UT state law. They just want a piece of paper so they can check a box.

The interesting thing is I got the Idea from a manufacturer of U4 race vehicles that does the same thing on all of their builds for the same reason.

I have zero financial benefit from this. I still pay sales tax on all the parts to build and prep the vehicle.

Mike
 

JerryB

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I realize that Mike, no way was I thinking any different, but this practice per the "statutes" are not gray areas so be careful what your doing. There is 100% a process of buying an old 70's truck, chopping it up, and turning it into a luxury pre runner, race truck, etc. But having an R8, and saying you (allegedly) went out and bought a junk Tahoe or Silverado, etc to use the vin is beyond gray.

Don't get me wrong, the whole process is stoopid. I compare it to i can buy an old ranch bunk house with property, tear it down but as long as I leave 2 connected walls standing, then turn it into a 5000 sqf mansion it's considered a remodel. I buy the same place, tear all the walls down and it's new construction with endless permits and fees. The whole thing is just dumb.
 

MTPyle

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There are thousands of laws that create paradoxical situations. These force people to do things that may not be legit. But the intent is there. I need a title to show proof I own my truck. That’s what I did and it works.

The reality is this is the fault of SCORE and Mexico. It’s easy to fix. They just use the SCORE tech tag to prove who owns the truck. That does not help pre runners but does help race trucks.

Although you could get a SCORE tag for pre runners also. No reason to make the racers jump thru impossible hoops to prevent others from stealing trucks and taking them to Mexico.

Mike
 

dan200

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Easiest way to not deal with any of this is to become friends wit Pat Dailey and just use his stuff. Several of us have done it this way. Easy and cheap and your stuff is always well prepped.
 

E.Hagle

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I realize that Mike, no way was I thinking any different, but this practice per the "statutes" are not gray areas so be careful what your doing. There is 100% a process of buying an old 70's truck, chopping it up, and turning it into a luxury pre runner, race truck, etc. But having an R8, and saying you (allegedly) went out and bought a junk Tahoe or Silverado, etc to use the vin is beyond gray.

Don't get me wrong, the whole process is stoopid. I compare it to i can buy an old ranch bunk house with property, tear it down but as long as I leave 2 connected walls standing, then turn it into a 5000 sqf mansion it's considered a remodel. I buy the same place, tear all the walls down and it's new construction with endless permits and fees. The whole thing is just dumb.
You should look up the Coastal Commission. Because of they’re psychotic rules, PEOPLE TEAR DOWN ENTIRE HOMES AND LEAVE ONE WALL AND ITS LEGALLY A REMODEL
 
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E.Hagle

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I’m not sorry I brought up this subject. It amazes me that some people lack the ability to read between the lines of the law. Mike, you didn’t do anything wrong. You’re trying to get across the border and have fun with your family, you’re not trying to scam anyone.

Oh but it’s against the law!

Well so is chewing gum in Singapore

The spirit of the law is what’s important. No one is trying to Fack anyone here. God damn, Wild West street justice is what we need.
 
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