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Glen Helen

blazersracing

Well-Known Member
Heres an idea.... Glen Helen raceway has put on some of the best short course racing ever. That was just on a 1.5 mile course. Imagine if they used the 4 mile endurance course, and then ran the desert trucks and cars on a 4 hour endurance race with driver changes and pit stops. They can run the course through the river bed too if they need to open it up some more. Then they can have saturday with just desert cars on the 4 mile course and sunday with just short course cars on the 1.5 mile course. They can level an access road up in the hills and then add a set of grandstands there. And they can charge everyone cause there is no way to watch for free when the SAN BERDO sherrifs are right around the corner with their helicopter. Wouldnt that be totally bittchen?
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Kind of on this subject…….. Does anyone know why SCORE seems to have no interest in a short course-racing format. They get close with the multi-lap races but never a full on short course race. Does it have anything to do with CORR racing back east? Maybe SCORE should go back to its roots for at least one race during the season and put on a short course, say 3 to 4 miles long, race on a track suitable for desert trucks with little more than tire and suspension setting changes to the vehicles. I don’t think that there is a need for another sanctioning body to do this. What would really get it going is for one of the more prominent existing sanctioning bodies to embrace the idea and run with it. It would make great TV and live spectating. Look at the turnout they get back east and that is from a crowd that thinks of off road as BigFoot jumping over cars.





Shaun
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
glen helen would be fine with the right promoter. also, the track could be a little rougher, so the rally cars can't race on it at the same time!
as dor score promoting short course- they used to! riverside was great. too bad they turned the track into a half empty mall. why they never pursued a real replacement is beyond me. they went to pheonix, they went to willow, they never went back...maybe the promoter didn't like sharing gate revenue with track owners...

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

scott

Well-Known Member
SCORE is intrested in the short-course program, thats why Laughlin Loops are getting shorter and shorter.......I'm sure next year it will go from a 11 mile loop to probably a 9 or 8 mile loop........
 

Greg

Well-Known Member
Here's an idea, why don't we all just support the people who ARE promotiong short-course racing and do our best to watch it grow. Just got back from Estero Beach and it was great. And Havasu had more racers than spectators, what's that all about?? Everyone is talking about how we need a closed-course race but when we have one nobody shows up. I must not understand why the short-course stuff hasn't taken-off. I mean when I go to a desert race I find the biggest jump/bump and watch the cars hit it, it's like that multiplied by 10 at a shortcourse race. Do people just not want to spend money on gate fees? People come to our gatherings/ meetings just to see people hit jumps, I know there is a demand for this stuff. What needs to be done first, bring the big names here (to the west coast), then people will come or will big crowds attract the big names? I believe this to be the future of high-dollar off-road racing and I dont wanna have to fly all the way to wisconson just to see it.

Greg
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
greg-big names? they are all here on the west coast...big races? riverside, mickey thompson...those were big shortcourse races. why does it work in the midwest? because the fans don't have to pay 25 bucks to watch a race. the tracks are fan friendly and the racers don't have to mortgage the house to race 15-20 miles total. people on the west coast are spoiled into thinking they should be able to watch any racing for free because they can at the desert. as for score and laughlin, if score wanted to promote a shortcourse race, they have had the oppurtunity and place available. laughin, or primm would be excellent places to promote a true riverside style shortcourse race. i think one reason it doesn't happen is core doesn't want to see gate monies go away with the hill people. one thing that made sure the promoter made money at riverside or mteg was the fact that there weren't any spots to watch for free. so the promoter could charge a reasonable price and not try to get rich off the racers as they drove through the gate. he had a captured market that guaranteed hs pocket was happy.
the crowds now want to rip down fences, or hop over them, or try to get a freeride in some way, shape or form. the crowds have changed also. there is definitely a rogue group of fans who set a bad tone and light on the offroad community. they have driven some of the families away from spectating races. now those families go to the desert on non-race days to do their riding, etc... these are the people who don't mind paying for a good show, but don't want to expose young children to some of the garbage that goes on in the desert now. this all has an affect on why shortcourse and desert racing are seeing lower numbers than in previous years.

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

John Bitting

Administrator
Greg, I think one of the big reasons is distance. For any MDR race or Glen Helen, I can spend the day watching races and be home for dinner with my family, For Estero beach or Havasu, that is not happening, you have to make a weekend out of it, then you have to budget for hotel rooms and food. This is tough for me when I have my normal Laughlin, San Felipe, Primm races that I already budget for as in Vacation from work and financially, Now they are adding 3 more short course races into the equation that know one knows who is going to show up, if they were guarenteed to have the guys from back east then it is worth driving four hours and getting hotel rooms. But to think there will be one big name truck in each class does not make it worth it for "me" right now. I speak only for myself though. As far as everyone wanting Glen Helen back, I remember the last two seasons I was there, no one showed up to those races. I could park anywhere ride my little quad around the pits it was real nice, but not some huge venue. The only time Glen Helen was packed was for the winter series when they had them in December and the big boys came out... Now from a financial standpoint I dont think it would be smart for Glen Helen to open its doors to short course unless CORR was coming out here or they struck a deal with Score, I just dont think many people will show up otherwise. My 2 cents
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
If anyone cares to know. Cal. speedway can be rented for 15k (per day) and they take $0 of the gate. They are willing to hold a short course race there. Food stuff is already contracted out. But you might be able to strike a deal with the guy that does it to buy him out for that event. It is close and has enough seating to actual make some money for THE RACERS!!!!!! I know I haven't covered all the details but I believe it could work. I think it would be great if SCORE or somebody already putting on races did it. And Martin the last Mickey Thompson race I was at I think the tickets were going for $50. But I could be wrong. I got in for free because the desert truck I was working on was on display there.

Tony
 

Gabe Lara

Well-Known Member
How about a race @ Irwindale Speedway? Its up here at the 210 and 605 Fwys.
Smaller venue, but it could eventually grow into the Cal. Speedway.....?
 

Klaus

Administrator
I went to Havesu and it was good racing. A good show. I'll go again if they run a similar show. It was a long and expensive trip though. I believe that Havesu was not promoted big enough. Their webpage was poor (actually I think Eric with go-des put something together just to help them out) we ran a free banner to plug it as well. I was a little disappointed by the spectators. A small showing. But it demonstrated that there is some form of interest to watch short course/stadium racing. No idea what the admission was.

I see Johns point....it would be nice to go to your local race park on a Saturday and be home at night. Just like what we do with oval racing. Irvindale, Perris etc.

I just hope some promoter reads this thread and picks up on it.
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
i went to the mteg races and never paid more than 10-15 bucks for a seat, and they weren't nose bleed either. lets look at cal speedway for a second. 15 k to rent. if you average 12 bucks a seat from the gate, thats only 1250 peopel to pay the rent for the day. you still have to pay for the emergency services( last time i looked, the guys who own medevent are living large and driving big suvs and not worrying about gas prices) i would guess that the cost for the day would be between 2k and 2.5k. so you need anothe 209 people at the gate. you still have to make a track (and they aren't going to let you tear up the infield) and back then, mickey was spending about 250 k to lay down plastic, drop a couple layers of plywood, then truck in the top soil and construct the course, then take it back down to pristine asphault racing surface. maybe 250k now...that adds another 20,834 folks to the gate...for the promoter to break even. you still haven't covered your liability policy, advertising, costs of track workers salaries, etc...how many people signed that petition? mteg had 40,000 + at his events, usually twice that amount. he had it down to a science. started samll and moved up as the market would support it. the midwest doesn't have to tear tracks down and build at every venue. who is going to chance that kind of money on the fans of offroad? 25,000 people to break even. nothing for the racers pockets yet. it seems so easy to say that the fans and racers will support it, but a promoter can only lose money for so long before they have to call it quits. they say if you want to make a small fortune in racing, start with a large one...same goes for promoting if you don't hang on the back of the racers.

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

billymanfroy

Well-Known Member
I had a REALLY good time racing the '97 CORR race there. It's the best track by far that I've ever driven. (I even met Klaus there)

Since I like cans of worms so much, is there ANYONE on this board who knows who to contact there to talk about what it would take to hold another race? I used to think it was Bill Bowles (?!?) who was the main guy there, but I never talked to him. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Anyone have any real knowledge of why they don't race there anymore?

Thanks in advance,

Billy Manfroy
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
Billy- you talking about Glen helen? If so, I believe Bud Feldkamp(an accomplished offroader himself) is the guy in charge.

martin

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

Klaus

Administrator
What happened to Glen Helen anyways ? Why aren't there any more four wheeled vehicle races ?

I heard different stories over time. Not sure what to believe.
 

billymanfroy

Well-Known Member
Martin - yes I'm talking abouit Glen Helen. I went to their website and left a message and email for Lori Yarnell and Bud's name was also there.

Klaus - That's exactly what I'm trying to find out. I know they still race bikes there a lot, and supposedly the MX track took over the old off-road course with Animal's Leap on it. I just want to know if it's possible to ever race there again, and if not, why. I'll let you all know what I find out.

Billy
 

hoeker

Well-Known Member
i think i have to agree with greg on this one. i have only been racing CORR for 3 years and have already seen many failed venues. CORR is succesful because of the stability of shortcourse racing at tracks like Crandon and Bark river for the last several decades. CORR also has a good contingency package. i got into CORR becouse of the TV package, i could not conceive of getting a good sponsor without the TV.
so now we have 3 key ingredients. one is fan base, sponsors, and the other is TV. i will not drive out west for a race that isn't televised, doesn't have a good purse, or isn't for points.
The fan base takes time to build. years and years of resonable gate fees, and good close competative racing. some of our new races have tried to sock the guests 50 bucks for a weekend pass, with poor results. why not drop the gate to 20 bucks for the weekend or 15 a day and get 4 times as many people. i think this is why new york had a poor turnout last year. the fans will pay 50 bucks for motocross, because they know what their going to get, for short course in a new venue, the fans have no idea what to expect and won't refinance the house to go. This year the new york race is after the motocross, and they are going to get a couple teams to bring their trucks out to show the fans that a truck can take that table top, just like a bike. hopefully they are succesful, hopefully they drop the gate fee just to get people in the door.
once the fan base is developed, the TV and contingency sponsors will most likely come in time. short course is great for TV, and everybody that watches wants to see more. they love watching us destroy out trucks and keep racing, they love to watch 4 wide through the first turn with everybody leaning on the guy next to him. but as racers you have to keep in mind how expensive short course racing is. lots of body panels, extremely high rpms on the engines for the entire 15 minutes, lots of broken wheels, shocks etc.

you guys look at CORR and may not see how much CORR is struggling. CORR is struggling to add succesful venues, struggling to get decent purse money for the racers. CORR tried to race out west and the race was a failure, i hear the promoter didn't do his job, but who knows for sure. as racers most CORR teams are not equiped to travel cross country to race. i think in the future they will have to be, but it will take time. i am confident CORR will succeed, and we may have a winter series out west, but most likely it will be CORR combining with an already successful venue, or series of venues to make it happen.

i have looked into some of the shortcourse racing out west and at the advice of a CORR racer that runs them have not persued it. maybe if you guys support the races you have the venues will be successful enough to start drawing racers in from across the country.

one thing i haven't mentioned is the rules package. CORR realizes the need to restrict the classes, without it the guy with the most money wins. if the rules get away from you, you won't have enuf racers in a class to make it fun to watch. CORR has been slowly adding restrictions to make our racing more competative. PRO-lite is a good example, by leveling the feild with the spec chassis, the feild is large and competative. stock truck is going the same way. for next year they made major rule changes in sporty -2 for the same reasons. PRO-4 is a perfect example of what you don't want. 8 trucks is barely enough to be exciting, but no one can afford to get out there and race with those guys, so that's all we have. one of the best PRO-4's out there is for sale right now, and nobody will buy it becouse they can't afford to keep it on the track.

i suppose i blabed enuf, and hope it make sense to some of you. but the bottom line is that this is way more complex than the initial post even hinted at. it will take time and dedication from several organized groups of people to make short course racing into the winston cup of off-road. but i for one believe it is possible, and will happen in time. just look at how many people drive trucks these days- they don't want to watch circle track racing, they just don't know any better. it's our job to show the world the future of truck racing.

as far as the monster truck comment, we'll let that one go.

LIGHTS RIGHT
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rosshoek.com>www.rosshoek.com</A>
 

RacnCPA

Well-Known Member
What do you guys want to know about Glen Helen? And yes they have used the full Grand Prix course for off-road races in the past. The main course was connected to the back hills via that wash that someone mentioned. Bud Feldcamp is still the leasee of the park and would be the one to talk too. But its been made pretty clear why there are no longer off-road races there. So you'll probably be wasting your time.

Sc
 

dezerts10

BANG!! BANG!!
Klaus,
\like i told billy glen helen is possibly one of the premier MX tracks in the world. withthe MX scene in socal goin off they do so much in the motocross thing that its probably just not something they want to get back involved in yet unless they can see a good reason to. I heard that the glen helen national got like ithink the number was like 100k spectators for the national event they hold there.everymay. that number may not be correct thopugh i just thought thats what i heard. hope short course comes back though cause it awsome and much closer to home then all the other type of 4 wheel off road racing.

Gregg
 
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