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God Bless America

Catawampus

Well-Known Member
Woa ! What ever happened to freedom of speech and expression? I thought voicing opinions is what made America great. To begin with, I am not a pacifist. I believe if we send our American brothers and sisters off to fight a war – it better be based on the highest of moral and ethnic principals, and not based on the greed and ambition of our “leaders”. America has never, in its history, lead a preemptive strike against a sovereign country. I have a problem with this and I have not been convinced it is the right thing to do. I see it opening up opportunities across the world for other countries to achieve their own objectives.
It is my patriotic duty to question the motives and ambitions of our “leaders”, they take an oath to represent the people of the United States and defend the constitution. Bush and his administration has not done this, in fact Bush and the administration are actually defying the constitution of the United States.
I don’t know about having all the correct answers. . I am just voicing my opinion as I see it. I study politics, not just from the media, but also from history, and from the minds of brilliant people from Howard Zinn to Noam Chomsky. I am very concerned for our country and our civil liberties. I won’t get into details (and boy I have many) but the trends are disturbing.
Bryan-D I read your posts with utmost respect and attempt to understand your viewpoint. I hope we can continue to discuss issues rationally.
Lastly – BajaWaldo make an excellent point, “ … please do not rely on the media to inform you of the facts that are of interest to you.” Much of the media has become the voice of the government and of the controlling interest – even movies like “Black Hawk Down” receive instruction and support from the government to provide the positive aspects of war. The general media is good for one side of an issue, but there are many other sides.

Understand - I do not want to see our great servicemen and women, often the young and poor, come home with American Flags draped over their coffins unless it is for the most honorable and just cause. They deserve the utmost respect for their ultimate commitment

Kim
 

Bryan_D

Well-Known Member
Actually Australia is great. I went there for 10 days in in 97 it was amazing and there werent that many people bitching about stuff either. And yes there was plenty of open desert, the only thing would be hitting those damn kangaroos. They were on the sides of the roads like a cat or bird here in the states. Thats why companies like ARB have such huge bumpers, I think since they are an Australian company.

Cat: hey truse, I was stressed when I wrote that message and was out of line to you, I apologize. There is way to much organic chemistry in my head when I wrote that message.

Jr. You on the other hand as far as I am concerned can kiss my ass. Everthing I say you argue even if it has nothing to do with you. No matter if it is dealing with the enviro stuff or what. So whatever you have to say I could care less about your opinion as well I am sure you think the same of mine. So I wont comment on your thoughts.
 

JrSyko

Jerry Maguire
Don't get all pissy and start name calling just because I asked you to write in complete sentences and use spell check, which you obviously failed to do. I have only ever disagreed with with about some environmental issues and this. We obviously both agree on our love for the desert.

I thought that we could both respect each others opinions and have educated debates about them without resorting to name calling. However, I guess you showed that you can't.

P.S. Sorry to everybody else for having to endure this little "arguement"

See ya in the dirt!
 

Bryan_D

Well-Known Member
On a serious note with you Jr, what are your views on desert racing? Since the fact that you are an environmentalist how do you justify racing in the desert? This is not an arguement either I was just curious on this point.
 

Klaus

Administrator
Environmentalist doesn't mean you have to be opposite to desert racing. Actually ever since I follow desert racing I started appreciating our open deserts and outdoors overall.

Being an environmentalist for me means that I conserve resources more conservatively. I don't trash the places I love.
 

Catawampus

Well-Known Member
I would also like to reply if I could. I think it is a misunderstanding and a disservice to the off-road and desert racing community to assume because we race and off-road that we are abusive towards the environment. I have been around off-roading for many years, and only lately with desert racing, but I have always found the people I associate within the community having deep respect for the environment and take great steps to restore and preserve the resources we value. Granted - there are some who abuse, but the off road community is quick to point this out to the individuals. I have seen a "gang" of desert racers and their pit teams insist that individuals haul away their trash and belongings. I believe most leave the desert in better condition then when they arrived.

Kim
 

JrSyko

Jerry Maguire
Please see Klaus and Kim's post as I think that they have explained my position perfectly. Thanks guys!
Additionally, are you implying that it is not possible to be both an environmentalist and a desert racer?

See ya in the dirt!
 

Bryan_D

Well-Known Member
No I am not saying that it is impossible to be both a racer and an envoronmentalist at all. Hell I am an ecology major this is what I will do as a living. And I understand that when you are in the desert you pay more attention to it, kinda like if you drive a ranger you seem to see more rangers on the road. Its that once something is in your life you pay more attention to it no matter what it is. Seriously I didnt mean to piss everyone off on this site at all, well maybe Jr but that was a couple days ago and not anymore. SO yes I am an evrionmetalist also but not an extremist in any sense of the word and yes you can be a racer and an environmentalist at the same time. As long as we take care of whats ours and not let the extremists take our deserts, which we all agree on, then we should be fine. Just a question if this could be one of the oddest posts for starting on one subject and ending on something completely different?
 

Waldo

Safehouse
That happends all the time...BTW...How about them Angles?

BRAAAAAAAAP!
 

Tom_Willis

Well-Known Member
I think this buildup, and threat of war may be just a threat. If the US does not go in at the last minute, and inspections are carried out so we are confident that nobody over there is building NBC weapons, then everybody wins. The Bush administration says "WE made the bitch comply, WE are safe, and WE can take credit right before re-election". The United States Armed Forces prove that , once again, when absolutely necessary, they are capable of crushing Hussein (or anybody else that wants to play chicken with America). And Hussein can say "look, this time, I had no choice, they were gonna vaporize me!"... I really hope this is what transpires, none of us want to see military action unless there is no choice, but this is the way global politics work. Not every king, or president for life, (or whatever he calls himself) is honest, or rational, or even reasonably smart. Sometimes, to get their attention, and force them to do what you want, you have to make it personal. During the 80's, a nightclub in West Germany that was clearly a hangout for American servicemen was bombed, killing Germans citizens as well as Americans. The investigation pointed to Momar Ghaddafi, who provided refuge in his country for the suspected bombers. He was told to hand them over, he decided he would rather not, so President Reagan picked up the phone and said "BOMB HIS HOUSE". That one incident educated him quicker than all the diplomacy and "world opinion" ever did.
 

JrSyko

Jerry Maguire
Not to re-kindle a huge argument, but I just read an interesting article in the Saturday addition of the San Diego Tribune (an extremely conservative paper) about how part of Bush's insatiable hunger to take down Iraq is personal, resulting from Hussein's attempted asasination of Bush Sr. during the Gulf War. Luckily, that attempt was uncovered by the Kuwaites (SP?) and prevented. I thought it to be quite an interesting take on why Bush is so adament about taking down Hussein's regime.

See ya in the dirt!
 

drtdevil93

Well-Known Member
http://www.williamcooper.com

he has some interesting points of view on all this. some consider him crazy, but at the least a lot of it makes sense, and his book "behold a pale horse" will leave you in a sense of despair. believe him or not, its interesting either way.

erik
 
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