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GOOD, BAD AND UGLY ABOUT NORRA M1K 2019

CHINOLAS

Well-Known Member
that is because they were using GPS only !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Road books should be mandatory if you use GPS they should get MAX Day Penalties +5 hours added to there time.
At NORRA we do allow the use of GPS units for safety but with moto´s we certainly have the biggest challenge, they just do not use roadbook rolls or readers, some of them do but not all, also if you look at all the accidents and fatalities since we started the rally in 2010 all of them are bike riders chasing dust with no idea on what is coming up ahead.

We do our best to have the tools available to all riders like Roadbook Rolls, Leadnav Files, Garmin GPS Files etc, but there is simply no interest to improve or be safe, that really disappoints me, how do you think we can really get all the riders to use the tools and really be safe.
 

rustyb

Well-Known Member
Bottom line is it's a race and racers are going to do what they think is fastest, regardless of safety. I think most of the bike guys that use the roll charts are going at it more as an adventure than an all-out race. If you want to make everyone use the roll charts then you're going to have to make it slower to NOT use them, whether it be bigger penalties or something else.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
baja motorcycle racers are plumb loco, penaltys???, they are too busy watching out for a 'cow in the road penalty...
 

LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
baja motorcycle racers are plumb loco, penaltys???, they are too busy watching out for a 'cow in the road penalty...
I agree, I think some of the guys on bikes are bucket lister's that have not race in Baja and don't really know how dangerous it can be. I think the safest way to race NORRA on a bike would be to use LeadNav with the voice prompts in the helmet. Use the GPS map to stay on course, listen to the LeadNav chick call out every way point in the road book and don't race what you cannot see. This is the approach we use in our single seat car and it seems to get us home each year alive.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
good ole' day story, tj to lapaz95 we followed a bike for at least 5 miles, one line narrow , honking horn, tossing water bottles, nothing , blinders on , going at maybe30% speed, we think he- she was one of those japanese riders, you think??
 

rustyb

Well-Known Member
I agree, I think some of the guys on bikes are bucket lister's that have not race in Baja and don't really know how dangerous it can be. I think the safest way to race NORRA on a bike would be to use LeadNav with the voice prompts in the helmet. Use the GPS map to stay on course, listen to the LeadNav chick call out every way point in the road book and don't race what you cannot see. This is the approach we use in our single seat car and it seems to get us home each year alive.
I would certainly be open to that. I have LeadNav on my phone but didn't use it; I just carried it in case my GPS failed. I'm not that techno-savvy; would it be as simple as loading the file with voice prompts on my phone, sticking it in my pocket, and put in the ear buds? Do you have to buy the voice prompt file or is it provided?
 

LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
I would certainly be open to that. I have LeadNav on my phone but didn't use it; I just carried it in case my GPS failed. I'm not that techno-savvy; would it be as simple as loading the file with voice prompts on my phone, sticking it in my pocket, and put in the ear buds? Do you have to buy the voice prompt file or is it provided?
I don't race on a bike but the best setup for a bike might be an iPhone (plus size) in a life proof case mounted on your handle bars. It is best to have a charger plugged in so that your phone doesn't go dead or have an auxiliary battery that can be connected. blue tooth earbuds would be great because iPhones don't put out enough volume on their own to power speakers in the helmet. speakers require an amplifier. LeadNav is an inexpensive App download in the Apple Store. NORRA pays to have the entire road book programed into LeadNav. Every waypoint and note is programmed in with voice. Regardless of your speed, you will hear the next way point notes spoken to you 15 seconds before you get there and again when you are just about on it. I believe listening is safer than reading while racing. Now if you are using a separate GPS, just through the iPhone in your pocket and listen to it. Last time I looked LeadNav only works on Apple products.
 

rustyb

Well-Known Member
Bob, thanks so much for the advice-I think this is the answer! I'll continue using my GPS on the bars, have the phone in my pocket for voice prompts (I'll experiment to see what works best as far as earbuds/speakers/etc). Eliseo, maybe when you start putting out the press releases, you could advise moto guys about the penalties and suggest that this could be a way to avoid them.
 

Baja Dad

Well-Known Member
At NORRA we do allow the use of GPS units for safety but with moto´s we certainly have the biggest challenge, they just do not use roadbook rolls or readers, some of them do but not all, also if you look at all the accidents and fatalities since we started the rally in 2010 all of them are bike riders chasing dust with no idea on what is coming up ahead.

We do our best to have the tools available to all riders like Roadbook Rolls, Leadnav Files, Garmin GPS Files etc, but there is simply no interest to improve or be safe, that really disappoints me, how do you think we can really get all the riders to use the tools and really be safe.

First this is NOT a SCORE RACE.. it is a fun RALLY trip down Baja with a bunch of crazy people !!
If Road books were mandatory for all BIKES and 4-wheel competitors and the GPS was used only as a tracker . You would have less accidents .
For the fact you have to slow down to go faster.........
It is about the adventure not the Results !!!

The first rule of Rally DO NOT JUST CHASE DUST!!! you must follow your road book



I feel Myself along with Tim Morton could help make it safer and bring in more moto competitors if given a chance to work with you

just my 2 cents
 

rustyb

Well-Known Member
Yes, Baja Dad, the NORRA Mexican 1000 is far from a SCORE race, but it is a race nonetheless. It is billed as a race, it has timed sections, results are posted, and trophies awarded. You may say it is about the adventure, not the results, and lots of people ride it that way, but not everyone. If NORRA wants to make it an adventure ride, I think they will lose a lot of people who want to race in Baja, but without the staying up several nights in a row, risking the lives of their crews on the highways, and all the crazy logistics that come with SCORE.

Unfortunately racing motorcycles and quads is dangerous and people will get injured and die. That being said, I agree that if reasonable changes can be made to increase safety without changing the nature of the Happiest Race on Earth, then go for it. I also agree that NORRA should take advantage of yours, and Tim's, experience and knowledge about Baja racing.

Viva Baja, and viva NORRA!!!
 

Zambo

Well-Known Member
I would certainly be open to that. I have LeadNav on my phone but didn't use it; I just carried it in case my GPS failed. I'm not that techno-savvy; would it be as simple as loading the file with voice prompts on my phone, sticking it in my pocket, and put in the ear buds? Do you have to buy the voice prompt file or is it provided?
Listening to the leadnav IMO is the way to go for bikes and single seat cars. You don't have to look at anything as long as you can hear it. You can either use bluetooth earbuds if they are comfortable enough or hardwire into your helmet. The annual subscription level for leadnav that lets you hear the audible markers is about 40 bucks I think.
 

TrophyBurro

Well-Known Member
Listening to the leadnav IMO is the way to go for bikes and single seat cars. You don't have to look at anything as long as you can hear it. You can either use bluetooth earbuds if they are comfortable enough or hardwire into your helmet. The annual subscription level for leadnav that lets you hear the audible markers is about 40 bucks I think.

only issue we had was some danger alerts were late ..
 

CHINOLAS

Well-Known Member
First this is NOT a SCORE RACE.. it is a fun RALLY trip down Baja with a bunch of crazy people !!
If Road books were mandatory for all BIKES and 4-wheel competitors and the GPS was used only as a tracker . You would have less accidents .
For the fact you have to slow down to go faster.........
It is about the adventure not the Results !!!

The first rule of Rally DO NOT JUST CHASE DUST!!! you must follow your road book



I feel Myself along with Tim Morton could help make it safer and bring in more moto competitors if given a chance to work with you

just my 2 cents
Guys, NORRA is fully open for help and contributions, we are a family and need to take care of all as we are humans, call me anytime +52 1 646 1371283
 

TrophyBurro

Well-Known Member
We used the puck but now Im thinking about it I bet there is a setting on how soon it gives you the audio alert.
Was first time using the lead nav.
 

RedRide

Well-Known Member
That might have been because you are using the internal GPS of your Ipad or iphone and not the DUAL Puck Antenna for faster position updates.
They are actually late if you don’t get the premium subscription. Someone told me while we were in San Felipe and it worked fine for the remainder of the race. Kind of lame and dangerous on Leadnav’s part.
 

BajaboundMoto

Well-Known Member
I agree, I think some of the guys on bikes are bucket lister's that have not race in Baja and don't really know how dangerous it can be. I think the safest way to race NORRA on a bike would be to use LeadNav with the voice prompts in the helmet. Use the GPS map to stay on course, listen to the LeadNav chick call out every way point in the road book and don't race what you cannot see. This is the approach we use in our single seat car and it seems to get us home each year alive.
For sure Mex1k is better/wiser for a new Baja racer to experience Baja before tackling another event, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Having been the biggest supporter of bikes in NORRA, we have taken many Baja-wanna-bes 1st to NORRA then to other events in Nevada or Baja.
Step by step.

I disagree that LeadNav is the safest for bikes.
Roadbook is safest.
Roadbook makes the rider slow down and think. Roadbook calls out almost everything possible.
Paper is reliable.

IMO we need to cut out the racers relying on technology (I don’t mean get rid of the racers themselves, you know what I mean).
Technology can fail and can not work correctly.
At this recent Mex1k there were a few people complaining and wanting time credit because “the LeadNav didn’t warn us about the bad curve”. Sheesh, really? Really.

I’ve made a few suggestions, even ways to better the LeadNav function, openly and to Eliseo.

IF roadbook for motos was made mandatory, even if I agree it should, IMO there would be fewer moto entries. I know there will be many who look at the event and the required parts to do roadbook and be, “nah, not interested”.
I wasn’t aware until this year that there are F2R real roadbooks that are manually operated. That’s a great start to getting them onto more bikes.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
all my racing& co riding was with No gps & no intercom,( intercom co riding only to point out any immediate hazards,) only used radio if broke- comming into pit.its baja,you gotta have an extra sence in your gut to be up there w the really fast guys, so ive heard. 'the gizzmo tech thiningy didnt point out the rain rutt crater i slammed into after dodging the cow that wasnt on the race notes' ....,man, i would Not use that excuse if i was the only guy blowing an ' unmarked' turn, there should be an old skool class, all the ' tech' your allowed is pre running& a cheap cb radio, the younger set would be in a pickle
 
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TrophyBurro

Well-Known Member
It would not surprise me. leadnav loves the upsells. Im still baffled why they dont include a basic map like the PCI baja for lowrance.
 
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