• Forum membership has its advantages....

GOOD, BAD AND UGLY ABOUT NORRA M1K 2019

oldschool5er

Well-Known Member
Nothing is more satisfying to me than to have won races using intensive prerunning, your eyes and mind to follow a race course, even if that means making a few wrong turns or hitting a few drop offs. Having a myna bird talking in your ear the whole way? I can get that at home and in the family car trying to find a hotel. Too much tech allowed for guidence but too late to go back now. Something has been lost in what Baja racing was about in a small way short of valuable Sat phones and safety tech. I get it though, once tech moved into guidence it just changed the whole outlook of a Baja race with more people able to cross a finish line.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
ever watch in car vids of some offroaders?, look like those crazy closed coarse jet boat co pilots, it seems now u have Too much info to get in the way of a racers instincts, maybe That is really what caused 3 am blowed corner syndrome...
 
Last edited:

LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
Nothing is more satisfying to me than to have won races using intensive prerunning, your eyes and mind to follow a race course, even if that means making a few wrong turns or hitting a few drop offs. Having a myna bird talking in your ear the whole way? I can get that at home and in the family car trying to find a hotel. Too much tech allowed for guidence but too late to go back now. Something has been lost in what Baja racing was about in a small way short of valuable Sat phones and safety tech. I get it though, once tech moved into guidence it just changed the whole outlook of a Baja race with more people able to cross a finish line.
I know pre-running is a great tradition but I am glad NORRA doesn’t allow it. Just look what pre-running does to SCORE race courses now. By race day it is tore up so bad that everyone ends up stuck in a log jam. As far as the voice in the ear, NORRA does a great job calling everything out in the road book. LeadNav gives you option to listen instead of reading as everything in the road book is programmed in.

In a 1977 single seat Buggy I don’t have the option of reading so LeadNav is a great option. Regardless NORRA is a race. However the key to winning is not speed. It is having no downtime which is a big challenge. You can trail ride NORRA and if you have zero downtime you will probably be on the podium and maybe even win.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
not that i was trying to' keep it real', i woulda Luved to have gps- leadnav, ect., but i had a choice to make, entry fee or save for gps,,,, hmmmm, race !!
 

Ajam1

Member
For sure Mex1k is better/wiser for a new Baja racer to experience Baja before tackling another event, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Having been the biggest supporter of bikes in NORRA, we have taken many Baja-wanna-bes 1st to NORRA then to other events in Nevada or Baja.
Step by step.

I disagree that LeadNav is the safest for bikes.
Roadbook is safest.
Roadbook makes the rider slow down and think. Roadbook calls out almost everything possible.
Paper is reliable.

IMO we need to cut out the racers relying on technology (I don’t mean get rid of the racers themselves, you know what I mean).
Technology can fail and can not work correctly.
At this recent Mex1k there were a few people complaining and wanting time credit because “the LeadNav didn’t warn us about the bad curve”. Sheesh, really? Really.

I’ve made a few suggestions, even ways to better the LeadNav function, openly and to Eliseo.

IF roadbook for motos was made mandatory, even if I agree it should, IMO there would be fewer moto entries. I know there will be many who look at the event and the required parts to do roadbook and be, “nah, not interested”.
I wasn’t aware until this year that there are F2R real roadbooks that are manually operated. That’s a great start to getting them onto more bikes.
This was my 3rd NORRA but first on a bike. Our team are all seasoned Off road Moto guys and know how to race in the desert.
We were first bike on road (1st OA) for a good part of the week this year at the NORRA 1K. We ended up 2nd OA for the week. We chose to use LeadNav in our ear and a simple GPS on the bars. We did this for a couple reasons. #1. We felt it is faster then reading a roadbook and #2 cost of all the road book (motorized) equipment in addition to all that equipment on the handle bars. None of use relied completely on LeadNav, it wasn't always right on, sometimes it would be a little behind or a little ahead. As a bike guy you ALWAYS ride what you can see. We thought LeadNav was great however.

I agree that if the road book was mandatory it may discourage a few guys but for the most part once you decide to do the NORRA, guys are in no matter what. Especeally if they dont have options. It is what it is so you either commit or not.


I also agree that the roadbook would definitely have a safety factor to it. It does make you slow down, think a bit and plan for whats coming up. You can absolutely go faster just following the blue line. Ask Mark Samules and Ricky Brabec. They told me the exact same thing.

We are absolutely coming back, not sure if it's this year or next but we will run the roadbook. If for anything it's a bit more challenging and it's a bit of a bragging right to say we beat you and we only used the roadbook.

I wouldn't complain if the roadbooks were mandatory fro motos but you would have to have a GPS as emergency back up in case you got lost. Not sure how you would police that.

Eliseo! Don't change a thing! It's awesome the way it is!
 

Baja Dad

Well-Known Member
Listening to the leadnav IMO is the way to go for bikes and single seat cars. You don't have to look at anything as long as you can hear it. You can either use bluetooth earbuds if they are comfortable enough or hardwire into your helmet. The annual subscription level for leadnav that lets you hear the audible markers is about 40 bucks I think.

NO thank you !!!!
I will never have talking in my ear
You need to hear your bike

TOO much crap going on to that **** is your ear.
 

Zambo

Well-Known Member
Whatever man. You can still hear the bike or car fine. It’s just another tool to have. If people don’t want to use it then don’t.
 

Baja Dad

Well-Known Member
I would have No problem setting up rental road book units for anyone that wants them
Or I can put a Bolt on Package together and sell you what you will need.

Step 1
I would have to have your order 30 days before the event.
I would send you a email telling you what you would need to use it. ( 12 volt power supply )
There are lots of ways in doing this on anything
** Last week before race Rental units will be a much higher fee ( RUSH FEE will apply )

Step 2
You would pay a rental fee : ($ TBD )
and have option to buy Insurance ($ TBD ) or pay full retail cost after event for any damage
also leave a CC as deposit

Step 3
I could ship you the unit with a detailed diagram for mounting ( 1- plug and 4-bilts and Velcro)
Or I could install it for you after tech ( for a Small fee )

Step 4
You return unit to me at the finish line
If you DNF you have 48 hour to send Photos via Email or Text to me showing me the unit is not Damaged
then YOU ship it back to me in California

Step 5
After unit is returned I will assess the unit for damage then hand / send you the final statement


If interested contact me at ( Bajadadraceprep@Yahoo.com)

Mark Vanscourt
Bajadad Race Prep
 

atvrcr88

Well-Known Member
I have a question. When I raced in the 70s, 80s and 90s we had none of that stuff. You followed course marking like ribbons, arrows, and sometimes lime. You went as fast as you could see and I dont see a problem with that. Everyone relies on all the new tech. Why not do it old school and bring the costs down or rental for all this new tech.
 

Baja Dad

Well-Known Member
I have a question. When I raced in the 70s, 80s and 90s we had none of that stuff. You followed course marking like ribbons, arrows, and sometimes lime. You went as fast as you could see and I dont see a problem with that. Everyone relies on all the new tech. Why not do it old school and bring the costs down or rental for all this new tech.
In a Rally they do not mark a course at all . NO ribbons, arrows,or lime. ( No pre running )

The point of a rally is to Navigate off your mileage and Cap headings
that is the Best part !! Testing your self

( Any MONKEY can follow a GPS line or listen to Lead Nav in their ear )
 

lyhoftom

Member
This was my 3rd NORRA but first on a bike. Our team are all seasoned Off road Moto guys and know how to race in the desert.
We were first bike on road (1st OA) for a good part of the week this year at the NORRA 1K. We ended up 2nd OA for the week. We chose to use LeadNav in our ear and a simple GPS on the bars. We did this for a couple reasons. #1. We felt it is faster then reading a roadbook and #2 cost of all the road book (motorized) equipment in addition to all that equipment on the handle bars. None of use relied completely on LeadNav, it wasn't always right on, sometimes it would be a little behind or a little ahead. As a bike guy you ALWAYS ride what you can see. We thought LeadNav was great however.

I agree that if the road book was mandatory it may discourage a few guys but for the most part once you decide to do the NORRA, guys are in no matter what. Especeally if they dont have options. It is what it is so you either commit or not.


I also agree that the roadbook would definitely have a safety factor to it. It does make you slow down, think a bit and plan for whats coming up. You can absolutely go faster just following the blue line. Ask Mark Samules and Ricky Brabec. They told me the exact same thing.

We are absolutely coming back, not sure if it's this year or next but we will run the roadbook. If for anything it's a bit more challenging and it's a bit of a bragging right to say we beat you and we only used the roadbook.

I wouldn't complain if the roadbooks were mandatory fro motos but you would have to have a GPS as emergency back up in case you got lost. Not sure how you would police that.

Eliseo! Don't change a thing! It's awesome the way it is!
what he said! Personally I think the GPS track should be dummied down to minimize blindly following the GPS if your vehicle or life insurance supports that, not usually an option for Moto or ATC. Plenty of fast cars and trucks on their lids at corner exit from just following the GPS line this year IMO. I understand the challenges of the roadbook and leadnav is a great compromise. As stated below, just another took in the toolbox!
 

lyhoftom

Member
I have a question. When I raced in the 70s, 80s and 90s we had none of that stuff. You followed course marking like ribbons, arrows, and sometimes lime. You went as fast as you could see and I dont see a problem with that. Everyone relies on all the new tech. Why not do it old school and bring the costs down or rental for all this new tech.
With the mix of vehicle capabilities in NORRA, that's not really an option. Closure speeds can be too great and Elesio's #1 goal is safety. The guy in the modern TT had a different definition of "fast as I can see" than a guy in a limited class. The roadbook minus the high res GPS track evens that field quite a bit.
 

atvrcr88

Well-Known Member
You should be aware of whats around you. I raced a quad in the nevada 500 with the buggies and trucks. You need to listen for them and if you hear them coming look to get out of the way. Its using common sense and not being stupid.
 

rustyb

Well-Known Member
( Any MONKEY can follow a GPS line or listen to Lead Nav in their ear )
This MONKEY is going to follow the GPS line with LeadNav in his ear, assuming I can work out the bugs for my particular application. Thanks to all who offered advice based on their experience with it, I really appreciate it.

This will never be completely safe. I very much appreciate the effort that NORRA is making to make it safer, especially separating us from the cars: it is safer and so much more fun to ride without turning to look behind every 15 seconds. But what happened to reading terrain? Like Tim, I was astounded to hear riders complaining of the curve where several people went down the side not being marked as a danger. No disrespect to the guys who went over, I don't know how they were navigating and we all screw up sometimes, that's racing, but to those complaining about the lack of danger marking in the roadbook, seriously? We were in a section of curves with drop-offs before the big curve, the rider must adjust his or her speed accordingly.

I agree with Ajam 1, leave it alone and let each competitor decide what works best for them. That being said, if NORRA decides to just go roadbook, I will adapt to that.

Baja DAD, just a friendly suggestion, people will be more open to your ideas if you tone down the pomposity a bit. Read Tim's post for a good example. :cool:
 

TrophyBurro

Well-Known Member
Some advice to anyone using leadnav is be sure you have the right amp usb plugs. We had 1 put in the dash so it was nice and close to the ipad but it could not keep up to charge it even with the screen brightness turned down. WE ended up getting it to work with a cigarette lighter adaptor.
We were using bluetooth puck and bluetooth to put the audio into the rugged intercom.. With the lighter it would work perfect and keep charged. We would have been bummed if we did not have that lighter plug
 

bajabird

Well-Known Member
After all the feedback.

1 major item that has not been made clear.

HITTING A VINTAGE CAR.
Sure, racers will be racers, but what about a clear cut rule?
Like was stated at the drivers meeting and not honored.

I got reamed by a TT type truck trying to "catch up" 3,000 in damages,
they did not get a penalty,
and my car was inches from being dead on the road in nowhere land.
 

LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
After all the feedback.

1 major item that has not been made clear.

HITTING A VINTAGE CAR.
Sure, racers will be racers, but what about a clear cut rule?
Like was stated at the drivers meeting and not honored.

I got reamed by a TT type truck trying to "catch up" 3,000 in damages,
they did not get a penalty,
and my car was inches from being dead on the road in nowhere land.
Our vintage Funco got slammed by a black modern class 1 car a couple of years ago. Car was hurt and injured the driver. I filled out the incident report and NORRA tried to ID the car but was unable to. We didn’t get a car number because our car was punted off a 3 foot berm and flying into a pile of boulders. I have heard others may have also been hit by the unknown black Buggy.
 

bajabird

Well-Known Member
Our vintage Funco got slammed by a black modern class 1 car a couple of years ago. Car was hurt and injured the driver. I filled out the incident report and NORRA tried to ID the car but was unable to. We didn’t get a car number because our car was punted off a 3 foot berm and flying into a pile of boulders. I have heard others may have also been hit by the unknown black Buggy.
If it was the black pre-runner he hit my car also; funny part is he was rolled over the next day.
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
If it was the black pre-runner he hit my car also; funny part is he was rolled over the next day.
I got hit by a black four seat pre-runner in the 2018 MX1K. It had AZ plates. I found the guy at the hotel next to ours in La Paz. He was WAY gnarlier than me. I said 'dude, you hit a 35 year old vintage car.' He blew me off until I said...'apologize and shake my hand...plus state you will never do it again.' He said...'or what?' I said....'I will go to NORRA and have you DQ'ed...and I am not phucking kidding.' He puffed up and looked like he was going to take a swing at me then stuck his hand out and said 'sorry' and walked away. But never said he wouldn't do it again. Dick!

Never...EVER hit a vintage car.
 
Top