• Forum membership has its advantages....

Grounding your vehicle while fueling???

PaulW

Well-Known Member
#21
10-4 Tower is grounded with a stake in the ground (earth) and not wired to the truck. Bonding of the fuel line from the tower at the truck fuel inlet eliminates static discharge.
No science to validate a ground wire from tower to truck or from truck the earth.
 

PaulW

Well-Known Member
#24
Airplane fueled with a Jerry can and a funnel is guaranteed to burn the plane and nothing will be left but ashes. Reason - the fuel flows with no bonding by splashing into the funnel. Funnel is usually bonded to the plane and the Jerry can is not bonded to anything. Static discharge always occurs in that situation.
Same thing will happen by using a funnel & Jerry can for your car. Jerry cans must have a spout that fits the car tank inlet. If you need a funnel make sure the spout touches the funnel and funnel touches the car fuel inlet. Never splash the fuel into a funnel.
 

JDDurfey

Well-Known Member
#25
I understand the need to "Bond" when using a metal container, funnel, or fuel nozzle. But most gas cans these days are plastic. Plastic is not conductive as far as I know. So is all this "bonding" necessary when using a plastic can?

By the way, when on an airstrip hacked out of the Amazon jungle and you need to fuel your bush plane and the only option is a jerry can and funnel, you do it. Never burnt a plane down in the many times I have seen it done. Maybe we just got lucky.
 

Bricoop

Well-Known Member
#26
I understand the need to "Bond" when using a metal container, funnel, or fuel nozzle. But most gas cans these days are plastic. Plastic is not conductive as far as I know. So is all this "bonding" necessary when using a plastic can?

By the way, when on an airstrip hacked out of the Amazon jungle and you need to fuel your bush plane and the only option is a jerry can and funnel, you do it. Never burnt a plane down in the many times I have seen it done. Maybe we just got lucky.
Plastic can carry a charge. Think of rubbing a balloon or a comb on wool and then bringing it up to your hair.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
#29
Plenty of plastic jugs have caught fire when filling them in lined beds of pick-ups. Been to more than a dozen in my lifetime in the fire service. It isn't that they are conductive, it is that fluid passing through plastic, metal, even rubber, creates enough static charge to allow a discharge to occur. Spark and flammable vapors is all it takes. Doesn't even need to be at the filling spout. Cell phones being opened or turned on near fueling have cause ignition. You cant see the vapors, but they are there. Take all the precautions when fueling.
 

Bajades

Well-Known Member
#30
So if you have to fill a HDPE drum in the back of a pickup at a fuel station, then the trick is to make sure that the fuel nozzle is in contact with the drum during filling?
 

PaulW

Well-Known Member
#33
I guess we need a more clear message?
Plastic jugs : When filling the nozzle must contact the jug inlet. To be more safe put the jug on the ground as well.
However, I and the rest of us support guys fill the plastic dump cans in the truck bed all the time. Just put the nozzle in the jug and let it rest on the side of the jug. Do NOT hold the nozzle in the air and let it squirt into the container.
BTW, Metal Jerry cans follow the same rules as above.
 

Bajades

Well-Known Member
#34
Thank you Paul, yes it was a serious question that needed clarification. I need to fill two 30 gallon plastic (HDPE) drums in the bed of a pickup for transport, and they are too heavy to lift back into the truck once they are full.
 
#35
Many teams use these dry break "redheads" with towers, pressurized systems and dump cans. They are a combination of plastic and metal. You take them off when filling the dump can up but the same "static" worries should be there when fueling a race car, right?




These are what I see most people using on dump cans. Its a vinyl hose but the tip is galvanized metal. (these are by Hunsaker). Does the metal tip on these make a difference danger wise?


I was always taught to put any gas can (plastic or otherwise) on the ground when filling it.

The internet has made me hyper aware of how sketchy fueling is, even at a gas station. In Baja at the 500 we watched some guys fuel in flipflops and shorts. The vehicles fuel cap was duct tape and the same for the dump cans. I have seen some unsafe stuff before but these guys made my top ten list. They spilled fuel everywhere and then later stood in the same spot while smoking cigarettes. Not a fire extinguisher in sight either.

Thank you all for participating in this thread. I think a lot of us have a lot to learn about how to do what we do in the pits in a safer manner.
 
#36
Some of the procedures listed may be "overkill" according to science, but at the end of the day the lives of our friends/family are at risk while fueling. A couple of extra seconds to clamp on a ground clamp won't be the difference between winning and losing. There should always be a person standing by with a fire extinguisher in hand, so just assign them the task of grounding (whatever method you chose) and there will be no decrease in fueling speed.

I always make a point of grabbing a fire extinguisher if the pit next to us has a car coming in. You can never be too alert when it comes to fires.
 

PaulW

Well-Known Member
#37
Dan,
Yes, a conventional dump can we all use. Some have a plastic closure, some are metal. Sometimes I end with both kinds. The material at the dump can opening does not matter. What matters is direct contact with the fill nozzle. That is called BONDING.
Be aware that fueling towers are a different subject and they have their own design and cautions. I have watched a lot of these towers being setup and taken down and they look pretty complicated and extremely well though out.
The dry break nozzle is a good thing as it wont even work unless it is bonded. Inside that device is a check valve the only opens when it correctly engages the trucks filler = Bonding. Dry break units are expensive and required for a high pressure setup like a tower. It is a proven design. We use them for aircraft filling and in many aerospace and missile systems. We call those connectors "Make before brake".
Dump cans for NASCAR and dry break for Indy and F1. And both for off road.
I would like to see a video of NASCAR dump cans being filled. Oh well - to lazy to search.
 

PaulW

Well-Known Member
#39
Trouble with using a ground strap is it has nothing to do with bonding. Thus it will not prevent fires caused by improper filling of portable containers filling the off road truck.
If you do not understand grounding vs bonding please re read the posts on this thread.
 

PaulW

Well-Known Member
#40
Offspring,
Thanks for the video.
Please note no grounding dump cans and all are on rubber tired carriers. Fill nozzle in contact with dump can inlet during filling. All the guys in the have fire suits - just like the BFG pit fueling crew - not like most of the team fueling crews !!
Looks like a gas station. Nozzle has its place when not used.
I bet that tanker is grounded just like a proper off road dump tower.
Evaluate my comments and report.
 
Top