Hearing Rumbling several Class 8 Trucks may run the Parker 425 and 2022 season?

Evans Motorsports

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Posts
259
Reaction
183
Location
Las Vegas Nevada
Recently I have heard some rumblings from a few racers that there are currently 8 to 9 Class 8 Truck owners who may run the BITD Season in Class 8? Starting with the BITD Parker 425 in 2022? Is there any truth to this. With so many class 8 trucks out there it sure would be nice to see this happen. Many thought the Class 8 trucks could be convert to 6100 trucks. That didn't work out due to the fact most Class 8 trucks don't have equal travel, the lower ride height, weight disadvantage and less suspension travel to be competitive. Especially when adding a spec motor LS 430 or the LS 525 then class 8s don't have a limit on HP. Anyone have any ideas that could revitalize the class? Spec motors, tire size maximums, fuel tank size or suspension travel limitations. Any ideas! Maybe the race organizations could come up with something?
 

Josh 8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Posts
623
Reaction
868
Location
Yucaipa, CA
I wish it were true. If 8 or 9 trucks (legal trucks) go to Parker, I would be one more added to the list.

I think the easiest, simplest and most cost effective way to pull the class together is to get all 8 truck owners on a message board where plans and ideas can be shared. Years ago (2003) when I got started in the class there was the class 8 coalition (c8c). Something like this could help. But it needs to be an active group of racers. No fans or b.s.ers. Just owners that want to get together and build a class by grouping together for competition.
 

kyle_pc_75

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Posts
466
Reaction
435
Location
Park City, UT
I'm no Class 8 racer, but love the trucks and honestly I think this goes for any class that's not seeing turnout.

I think Josh is right. Pick up the phone, call the owners and ask why they're not racing:
  • Life got in the way
  • Sold the truck
  • No prize money/sponsors
  • Nobody else is racing
  • Racing a different class
  • Series rules keep changing every year and I can't keep my truck competitive (is that an issue with Class 8, I don't know?)
Then see what can be done to address the issues and go from there. As someone who once ran a little race series, I can tell you I never got anywhere by begging classes to come race. The times we had big turnouts came from one "class rep" calling everyone out. If the series or a class sponsor can offer some incentive, that couldn't hurt but I always felt the movement had to start from within the class. They are the ones who should be dictating if any rule changes are needed, also.

Why has Class 11 seen a big resurgence lately? Not only old cars, but brand new ones being built? Maybe there's something there to learn from.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Posts
14,533
Reaction
9,890
Location
Big Bear, CA
Well, there is no alternative to class 11 where you can spend a ton to go slow, so they have that market cornered. In the case of Class 8, you can spend as much, more, or even less to go as fast or faster in a couple other classes, so that is the major obstacle. Build costs are the same as a TT (OK, maybe not a AWD truck) and a production company Spec TT will probably be slightly less with the crate motor, maybe. So there's that problem. Otherwise, if I had FU Money, I would own a Class 8 right now!
 

Evans Motorsports

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Posts
259
Reaction
183
Location
Las Vegas Nevada
At one time Danny at Locations Racing had a list of over 120 class 8 Truck Owners. Many were still built after that. There has to be 160 ton180 trucks out there. Most are very reasonably priced if for sale or the owner are willing to deal. Currently I believe there are 6 to 8 trucks for sale. Many trucks were purchased to Prerun race courses, some had cabs and steel doors added to run 1450. Some have tried the conversion to 6100 but none have been competitive against the full tube trucks. Others have been running Trophy Truck like the German Class 8, they have done pretty well in Vegas To Reno events, even placing 16th overall one year I believe. Most still have great parts and can be competitive racing today. If it's the cost of racing and prepping the trucks that is holding people back from racing them. It due to the weigh of the trucks I believe, the parts take a beating. We need to figure out how we can make it more cost effective the race the trucks. Personally I feel they fit best and should be able to race with the 1450 class. Thats the closest class they would fit in. They just need to drop the requirements of full cab with working doors and just allow full fiberglass bodies!!! Hell 1450 looks to be a dwindling class as well. So is the new class they developed 450, it never got off the ground so just combine all three. Most are owned or were built or by blue collar working class people. We did some research years ago on class 8 trucks frames. Most were built with one of 3 frames. They weighed 2400, 2800 and 3200 pounds approximately. Excluding a few trucks that were built with 1.5 tube, the majority were built using 1.75 or 2.0 tube, they have a finish weigh of 5400, 5900 and up to 6900 pounds. This is full of fuel and drivers, sitting at the start line. I say run 1450, Heavy Metal. 450 and Class 8 trucks together. Call it a pro class (award some cash) run the reduced laps for cost savings by reducing fuel consumption, reduced entry fee, limit tire size to 37 inch, limit fuel cells to 60 gallons, steel block motors only, no fuel injection, Carbureted motors only!!! This will in turn also reduce wear and tear. Just putting out some ideas. You have any share yours!
 

Evans Motorsports

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Posts
259
Reaction
183
Location
Las Vegas Nevada
At one time Danny at Locations Racing had a list of over 120 class 8 Truck Owners. Many were still built after that. There has to be 160 ton180 trucks out there. Most are very reasonably priced if for sale or the owner are willing to deal. Currently I believe there are 6 to 8 trucks for sale. Many trucks were purchased to Prerun race courses, some had cabs and steel doors added to run 1450. Some have tried the conversion to 6100 but none have been competitive against the full tube trucks. Others have been running Trophy Truck like the German Class 8, they have done pretty well in Vegas To Reno events, even placing 16th overall one year I believe. Most still have great parts and can be competitive racing today. If it's the cost of racing and prepping the trucks that is holding people back from racing them. It due to the weigh of the trucks I believe, the parts take a beating. We need to figure out how we can make it more cost effective the race the trucks. Personally I feel they fit best and should be able to race with the 1450 class. Thats the closest class they would fit in. They just need to drop the requirements of full cab with working doors and just allow full fiberglass bodies!!! Hell 1450 looks to be a dwindling class as well. So is the new class they developed 450, it never got off the ground so just combine all three. Most are owned or were built or by blue collar working class people. We did some research years ago on class 8 trucks frames. Most were built with one of 3 frames. They weighed 2400, 2800 and 3200 pounds approximately. Excluding a few trucks that were built with 1.5 tube, the majority were built using 1.75 or 2.0 tube, they have a finish weigh of 5400, 5900 and up to 6900 pounds. This is full of fuel and drivers, sitting at the start line. I say run 1450, Heavy Metal. 450 and Class 8 trucks together. Call it a pro class (award some cash) run the reduced laps for cost savings by reducing fuel consumption, reduced entry fee, limit tire size to 37 inch, limit fuel cells to 60 gallons, steel block motors only, no fuel injection, Carbureted motors only!!! This will in turn also reduce wear and tear. Just putting out some ideas. You have any share yours!
I have listed my truck for sale due to needing neck surgery. I have had it completed and my neurosurgeon has indicated there is a chance I could possibly race. I have to weight 6 to 8 weeks to find out if this is possible. I'm hoping for the best and may pull my truck from the classifieds.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Posts
9,707
Reaction
5,913
Location
sandiego
that is a lot of trucks, if you could get 30 per race, that would put on a heck of a show, booming v8s pounding on each other , need an association , to get a rules pakage that makes it cheap& fun, and have a series that evens out the points , so if a guy is going for points& dosent do baja, he wont get penalized, like count your top 5 out of a 7 race series, maybe a double points race in the states & Mexico, but you can only count one or the other, mix it up, do inverted starts as per last races results., oh, &pump gas only...
 

Josh 8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Posts
623
Reaction
868
Location
Yucaipa, CA
I shake my head at these threads most of the time. This thread like the class 6 thread are good examples. And yes, I do realize that I am a common factor in each.

So, hummm. Where to start? First off, we don’t need more classes. If we could figure out how, (and it won’t happen) to make off-racing straight again and only have the classes from say, 1990 we would be in a better place. I talked to Dick Lanfield about this probably 4 years ago. For those that don’t know he’s a behind the seances legend in off road racing. I asked him if tt class has helped the sport? He looked at me laughed and said, “Are your stupid, hell no it has not!” In my opinion this where it all began to go wrong. Cost got out of hand and spiraled upwards out of hand. Then there was protruck next. That was supposed to be affordable too. Remember that? Then it became rock racing, but that’s a different venue and promoter group all together. But it’s still a form of off road racing. Just a different flavor. Each time a new class emerges because some one has a new better idea then the classic idea we have been using the classes are diluted across the board in every class. IMHO, for class 8 to even have any recognition at all today I think it means there is a huge love and respect for the class. Kind of like 11 but “potentially” bad ass with a possibility of making dreams come true with long shocks and v8’s. This why we still talk about it. It’s why it’s the only class I have ever had an interest to be in. I don’t want to lose this or mess it up by changing rules.

This brings me to rule changes, I would stick to the classic score rules and don’t change them. Possibly the only exception would be to limit tire size to 37. The most important to me is to keep the trucks identified as production trucks that drove off a dealer lot when new. This is what makes it so great. To realize that some old 1/2 ton short bed sitting under a tree can be be morphed into a full assault race truck inspired(s) me and a lot others I think. And frankly, I like the frame rails. They don’t get in my way. I think people that think clipping the frame rails makes them faster, do not know how to tune and adjust shocks.

Regarding joining classes, like a heavy metal bash, I am all for that. I have no problem with racing pro 1450 or a heavy metal class. I just don’t want to change the class rules for 8 to blend with them to some new and improved version that losses it’s history and becomes something that is not identifiable any more.

Maybe what class 8 needs to look like in the future for new builds is my truck. It’s 8 legal, has the 1450 legal doors, 540 pump gas engine making 700 hp, a top speed on the hiway of 135 leaving a Mexican fishing town and a Montana plate on it to drive to the local home town 4th of July car show. Hooray! Viva Classico Ochoa and God Bless Merica!

DACFE762-1EC4-443F-BDB8-564E48475AE4.jpeg
36B02FB7-120B-43A9-8F74-32E3ABFF5D46.jpeg


Parting thoughts:
The truth is, there is nothing affordable about racing. Even the way I do it. It doesn’t matter what class your in it cost everything you have, can barrow and or beg for! It’s like making money. The more we earn = the more we spend. At the end of the day we are still broke and trying to find a way to justify what we do. Don’t fool yourself about anything in racing being affordable. We screw that up at every opportunity.
 
Last edited:

tapeworm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Posts
588
Reaction
557
Location
Big Bear, CA
Parting thoughts:
The truth is, there is nothing affordable about racing. Even the way I do it. It doesn’t matter what class your in it cost everything you have, can barrow and or beg for! It’s like making money. The more we earn = the more we spend. At the end of the day we are still broke and trying to find a way to justify what we do. Don’t fool yourself about anything in racing being affordable. We screw that up at every opportunity.
This is probably the best answer anyone has ever written to explain “affordable” racing and should be permanently plastered somewhere on this website so every time a new “affordable” racing class is talked about and every time a new person asks for the most “affordable” racing class they can read this.

Class 8 was always way cooler than Trophy Trucks in my opinion because it was a production vehicle. Limit the tire size to 37 inches and pump gas motors only and you might start to see a resurgence at the smaller racing series. Create your own coalition like the class 5 dudes where you race inside of some other class and just hold your own prize winnings and rules enforcement outside of the sanctioning body. This way you aren’t worried about anything other than payout, rules, and points and pay the sportsman fees to the race organization to put on the races.
 

scottm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Posts
1,884
Reaction
560
Location
scottsdale AZ
Website
www.cemaz.com
Ok I can finally contribute something relevant.. My truck was a prerunner I built up for 8-open with used everything and homemade everything else. I raced small events in az and Snore laughlin from 08-18. When I built it from 2005-08, my take home pay was barely $2K a month. For the first 2 years, I ran a used 350 taken from my old dually! Over time I got it working pretty well - I got 12th out of 50-something in 1450 in Laughin in 2017. But technically it was not legal for 1450 without working doors, AND it still would not have been competitive with Score caliber 8 trucks like Nick Vanderwey's cow truck, Todd Wyllie's Frankenstein, and of course the Pappas and Beer Geiser truck that got the rules rewritten in 2007. Still it was fun, and just entering a race at all made it a contender. Then I scuffed it up pretty bad on an 80 ft pine tree in a 'dezert race' in Flagstaff in July 2018. I don't blame the promoter at all for holding the race in a forest, it was actually a fun course and we are lucky to have any racing in az. I was pooped from 3 straight days of prep in 115F, and just got lazy.

Now it's been 3 years of rebuilding. I have redone the cage with 2 inch in the cab to pass Score rules. I notched the frame over the axle, but not back-halfed, as is now Bidt legal. It will have a steel cab and working doors for 1450. The idea is to be as versatile as possible but still faithful to the original class 8 rules. I could have 'tubbed' the cab, where the floor of the cab is flush with the Underside of the frame, (Score legal as of 07) but I didn't want to. Whatever performance gains may come from it just aren't worth the extra work.

So this thread is really exciting. I have been looking forward to real class 8 coming back, so I was bummed when Evans put his truck up for sale. Terry I have confidence you will be able to race by Parker next year. My own navigator and racing partner Ed had a health scare a couple years ago, but he is now cleared for me to beat on him again. I was tentatively hoping to have my truck going by the end of the year, but this gives me inspiration to double down on the effort. I know of several in az that could be prodded into racing again, and maybe we can encourage Mike Doherty (Old School 8) to finish his 13 year build to come play!

Edit: How could I forget these..
 

Attachments

  • 350329.G0010049.jpg
    350329.G0010049.jpg
    26.5 KB · Views: 0
  • 350330.GOPR0046.jpg
    350330.GOPR0046.jpg
    786.6 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Posts
14,533
Reaction
9,890
Location
Big Bear, CA
Class 8 was cool even when it wasn't vying for overall wins in the desert. Everyone, even us true air cooled lovers and racers always loved the feeling we got when a Class 8 rolled by and vibrated our groins with sweet loping music. Then it got so crazy that all those Walker Evans built class 8 used Dodges disappeared from the racing scene and some guys decided that tube frames would be cheaper to build than fab'ing around a factory frame. I think 1450 should open the door to 8 trucks in this way- 8 trucks can run in 1450 as long as they maintain true class 8 rules, i.e.- you can run fiberglass as long as the unmolested factory frame is still there, no back halfing, no removal of frame from the rear of the cab, etc... If you run a fiber glass body, you have to run the full frame. If you want to clip the frame, you have run steel cab and working doors. I think that would be fair.

As far as a new class 8 that would cost less, I think class 2000 is pretty close. Limit tire size to 37" and make a rule where body and engine have to match by manufacturer, i.e.- Ford body, Ford Motor, Toyota body, Toyota motor. Make it full size only and limit it to pump gas and 370"s cubic inches max. F150s, C1500s, Ram 150s, Tundras, Frontiers, yeah, they could all play just fine with the rear leaf springs and it would be cheaper, but not cheap.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Posts
14,533
Reaction
9,890
Location
Big Bear, CA
Ok I can finally contribute something relevant.. My truck was a prerunner I built up for 8-open with used everything and homemade everything else. I raced small events in az and Snore laughlin from 08-18. When I built it from 2005-08, my take home pay was barely $2K a month. For the first 2 years, I ran a used 350 taken from my old dually! Over time I got it working pretty well - I got 12th out of 50-something in 1450 in Laughin in 2017. But technically it was not legal for 1450 without working doors, AND it still would not have been competitive with Score caliber 8 trucks like Nick Vanderwey's cow truck, Todd Wyllie's Frankenstein, and of course the Pappas and Beer Geiser truck that got the rules rewritten in 2007. Still it was fun, and just entering a race at all made it a contender. Then I scuffed it up pretty bad on an 80 ft pine tree in a 'dezert race' in Flagstaff in July 2018. I don't blame the promoter at all for holding the race in a forest, it was actually a fun course and we are lucky to have any racing in az. I was pooped from 3 straight days of prep in 115F, and just got lazy.

Now it's been 3 years of rebuilding. I have redone the cage with 2 inch in the cab to pass Score rules. I notched the frame over the axle, but not back-halfed, as is now Bidt legal. It will have a steel cab and working doors for 1450. The idea is to be as versatile as possible but still faithful to the original class 8 rules. I could have 'tubbed' the cab, where the floor of the cab is flush with the Underside of the frame, (Score legal as of 07) but I didn't want to. Whatever performance gains may come from it just aren't worth the extra work.

So this thread is really exciting. I have been looking forward to real class 8 coming back, so I was bummed when Evans put his truck up for sale. Terry I have confidence you will be able to race by Parker next year. My own navigator and racing partner Ed had a health scare a couple years ago, but he is now cleared for me to beat on him again. I was tentatively hoping to have my truck going by the end of the year, but this gives me inspiration to double down on the effort. I know of several in az that could be prodded into racing again, and maybe we can encourage Mike Doherty (Old School 8) to finish his 13 year build to come play!
Has it really only been 13 years that Mike has been building that thing? Seems like 20 years easy now!
 

Josh 8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Posts
623
Reaction
868
Location
Yucaipa, CA
I have always respected Scott M’s determination and style of building. He gets a 👍 from me. I am pretty much in the same same category as Scott but I would say I am probably better funded. But as I have said, the more you make = the more we spend so I am still broke. One day I hope to meet Scott. He is the type of man (p.i. on purpose) that in my book personifies the average man, racing the average American truck modified to the extreme to be come an off-road assault weapon. Because of this I want to make sure guys like him are not forgotten or left in the dust by hi rollers (and my self too).

So here is my idea. Actually some one said this earlier. They need the credit. I don’t know who it was but insert your name here______________.

The idea is this. We (8 racers) kick in to make a pot of cash and race the bitd Parker 425 in January of 22. This is actually Evens idea, the o.p. on this thread. But, the genius idea here is that we split the pot. Winner takes 1/2. Then the person who finishes on the clock closest to the 1/2 way point of all official finishers (under or over) gets the other 1/2 of the pot. (No taxes)

This means that the fast guys can race for a win 🏆. And the even if your racing for a win and loose a few hours to down time, you are not totally out of the chance to win something good. Plus, guys like Scott M, Mike D and lots of others don’t feel left out to the guys that have there program totally dialed in. Plus, I don’t think this will allow sand baggers to plan there win. Sure some will try, but there is not going to be any good way to estimate the first and last finishers time to estimate the best middle time. So much is going to happen that will cause plans to fall apart and know one is going know anything at the finish line. I bet the winners will be a surprise to every one! 👍.

So, how much should the pot be? I think no less then one G and no more then 2 G’s. I personally like $2k because that splits each entree to be a $1k to each winner.

And so it’s said, you have to pay in before the green flag to be in the pot.

Myself personally, my race plan will be to go for it, run hard, race for a win see how I do against the best. It would not be the first time I hit the big boys with a surprise over hand right that pushes there button!!! (Score Laughlin 04’).

I will post this also on the class 8 FB page to see if we can get this going.

Let’s do it!

Oh, I will donate the two trophies. That way there going to be something tangible to hold and wave for bragging rights!
 
Last edited:

TRichards

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2002
Posts
1,064
Reaction
374
Location
El Cajon, CA
i would be in for that. Racing class 8 was my dream. I have had a full size fast 1450 truck in the past but i raced mostly mini trucks. I finally have the class 8. it is not as fast on paper as some of the others but it will be fun. People are spending 150k to 300k on a 6100/spec TT and huge money in TT to pray they finish on the podium. i cant find a logical reason why class 8 isn't more popular. 120k will get you a top of the line class 8 (You're welcome Tony). and it was pointed out that there are about 8 trucks for sale now. That is a class in itself.
 

Dave Shoppe

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2021
Posts
1
Reaction
17
Location
Lake Havasu City Arizona
I recently bought back from Mike Colman the Class 8 that Kevin Built for me in 1991. I ran class 8 from 1974 to 1991 9 of those years without sponsors . I have lived both sides of it .It would be a dream come true for me if Class 8 came back .I have to believe that Class 8 could be a great class again . No big time sponsors , just fun! I have really missed the THUNDER
 

Josh 8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Posts
623
Reaction
868
Location
Yucaipa, CA
Guys. I just put a Facebook page together called the “Class 8 Coalition”. It’s for current owners of 8 trucks that want to discuss joining forces and resources at specific races.

If your a prominent personality in off road racing such as a promoter or a off-road hall of famer, you will be granted entree to the group for your knowledge that could help us on a collective level.

Sorry, but this is not for fans, crews or drivers. Just owners that have a drive to actually go to races, pay entree fees and want a say in where the class goes in the future.
 

Gritt

New Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2021
Posts
4
Reaction
1
Location
Cody,Wyoming
At one time Danny at Locations Racing had a list of over 120 class 8 Truck Owners. Many were still built after that. There has to be 160 ton180 trucks out there. Most are very reasonably priced if for sale or the owner are willing to deal. Currently I believe there are 6 to 8 trucks for sale. Many trucks were purchased to Prerun race courses, some had cabs and steel doors added to run 1450. Some have tried the conversion to 6100 but none have been competitive against the full tube trucks. Others have been running Trophy Truck like the German Class 8, they have done pretty well in Vegas To Reno events, even placing 16th overall one year I believe. Most still have great parts and can be competitive racing today. If it's the cost of racing and prepping the trucks that is holding people back from racing them. It due to the weigh of the trucks I believe, the parts take a beating. We need to figure out how we can make it more cost effective the race the trucks. Personally I feel they fit best and should be able to race with the 1450 class. Thats the closest class they would fit in. They just need to drop the requirements of full cab with working doors and just allow full fiberglass bodies!!! Hell 1450 looks to be a dwindling class as well. So is the new class they developed 450, it never got off the ground so just combine all three. Most are owned or were built or by blue collar working class people. We did some research years ago on class 8 trucks frames. Most were built with one of 3 frames. They weighed 2400, 2800 and 3200 pounds approximately. Excluding a few trucks that were built with 1.5 tube, the majority were built using 1.75 or 2.0 tube, they have a finish weigh of 5400, 5900 and up to 6900 pounds. This is full of fuel and drivers, sitting at the start line. I say run 1450, Heavy Metal. 450 and Class 8 trucks together. Call it a pro class (award some cash) run the reduced laps for cost savings by reducing fuel consumption, reduced entry fee, limit tire size to 37 inch, limit fuel cells to 60 gallons, steel block motors only, no fuel injection, Carbureted motors only!!! This will in turn also reduce wear and tear. Just putting out some ideas. You have any share yours!
 

Gritt

New Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2021
Posts
4
Reaction
1
Location
Cody,Wyoming
Agreed. I am always bouncing around in vintage, sportsman or 1450. Plus I just built a profy I would like to race due to no pro-truck class (there is no way I am going to race in jeepspeed). Anyways, great ideas. The Legends series is open to suggestions etc. Maybe we could put class 8’s, pro-trucks, sportsman and 1450’s in one class! One suggestion would be to allow KR3’s..more steerable. I run 39’ kr2’s on the rear and 3’s on the front. Try it.DDB
 
Top