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Helmet fresh air...no more filter

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
So what happens to the centrifuge fan when the front tire kicks up, or the vehicle in front of you roosts massive quantities of fine to medium sand directly into the intake of the particle separator? Does all this sand then pass through (or need to pass through) the centrifuge fan to fully and completely exit the unit?
Good question! If the PS is located where you are going to get rocks in it, then you should put a screen over the inlet tubes. Rocks could knock out a fan blade like they could on a radiator (rocks flung forward by the rear tire). But most mount in such a way that this is not an issue and sand is no problem, nor is snow.
 

_

Well-Known Member
Where do most guys put the intake? How would this be different than a traditional parker pumper? Seems that they would be the same.
A traditional Helmet Blower filters the air prior the air passing though the Blower Motor. You can throw all the sand at it you want, and no sand will impact the fan blades. This is extremely critical when your blower motor has plastic blades.

Good question! If the PS is located where you are going to get rocks in it, then you should put a screen over the inlet tubes. Rocks could knock out a fan blade like they could on a radiator (rocks flung forward by the rear tire). But most mount in such a way that this is not an issue and sand is no problem, nor is snow.
So if I understand correctly, the "Centrifuge Fan" as it was described here, is in fact not a formal Centrifuge, it is an "Exhaust Fan" intended to not only increase the speed at which particles pass through the unit by creating closer to zero atmospheric pressure than the single fan supplying air to the helmet is capable of producing, it is intended to exhaust all foreign particles which enter the unit (ie: dirt, sand, rocks, etc.) If I am correct in my understanding of how this units works, this "Exhaust Fan" has potential to see significant abuse with the potential of total failure under the right conditions.

Am I not correct..??
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
A traditional Helmet Blower filters the air prior the air passing though the Blower Motor. You can throw all the sand at it you want, and no sand will impact the fan blades. This is extremely critical when your blower motor has plastic blades.



So if I understand correctly, the "Centrifuge Fan" as it was described here, is in fact not a formal Centrifuge, it is an "Exhaust Fan" intended to not only increase the speed at which particles pass through the unit by creating closer to zero atmospheric pressure than the single fan supplying air to the helmet is capable of producing, it is intended to exhaust all foreign particles which enter the unit (ie: dirt, sand, rocks, etc.) If I am correct in my understanding of how this units works, this "Exhaust Fan" has potential to see significant abuse with the potential of total failure under the right conditions.

Am I not correct..??
ESL not withstanding, you are incorrect. Did you go on the S&B website to at least try and understand the blatantly obvious information. Lol
 

_

Well-Known Member
ESL not withstanding, you are incorrect. Did you go on the S&B website to at least try and understand the blatantly obvious information. Lol
I'm not laughing...!!! Yes, I have read every page on the S&B website. If I missed something, please explain what I missed. This was my very simple and sincere request which I made very politely. I did not request a sarcastic response with "NO" added value.

Here is a quote from the website "as long as it is mounted horizontally level with the scavenge exhaust fan pointing straight down. " Whether I refer to this "Scavenge Exhaust Fan" as an "Exhaust Fan" or as the manufacture calls it a "Scavenge Exhaust Fan", the concept is the same as I described. Please explain to me where my understanding of this fan operation is unlike what I have posted to understand.

From the Website: "the vortexes spin the air throwing the dust particles to the side wall of the vortexes where it is ejected by the scavenge fan"
If the larger than "Dust" debris separated from the air intended to enter the helmet does not exhaust through this Scavenge Exhaust Fan, where and how does this debris exit the unit?

Your words posted read "FYI...there is two separate electrical motors working on this unit; one for the centrifuge to swirl out dust". Here is the definition of Centrifuge. Per Wiki Definition: The "Scavenge Exhaust Fan" is "NOT" a Centrifuge. The velocity the air moves through the 1st half of the unit is what forces the debris to separate from the air. As the air/debris reverses direction more than once and at a high velocity, the heavier particles in the air are unable to respond to the change in direction resulting in the separation of debris from air. The combination of fans creates the required velocity for separation.

Your words posted read: "If the PS is located where you are going to get rocks in it, then you should put a screen over the inlet tubes. Rocks could knock out a fan blade". Is this not what I posted to have I understood..?

Again, I'm happy to read where my understanding for the operation of this unit is different from what I posted to understand. Thank you....


Your responses lead me to believe you are somewhat invested in this product outside of being a customer. And with that, I have additional questions you may be able to answer:

1) With this unit having two fans, what is the total amperage draw for this unit @ 13.8V, under normal operation at stated 54 CFM capability..?

2) What is the inH2O air pressure capabilities of the air supply into the helmet..?

Thanks,
 
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Bricoop

Well-Known Member
Thanks for clarifying. From the pictures it’s difficult to tell the moving components. I assume there is a vortex created inside each of the tubes (V) and the dust then exits through the discharge slots(D). Am I in the ballpark @bajaxp ?

1550332710325.png


If this thing works as advertised and lasts, they could make it a bit larger and sell it as aftermarket filter or “pre-filter” for UTV engines.
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
You realize that's where this was derived from?
Farm equipment originally then in by combining multiple, miniaturized particle separators, they developed and used the system on military helicopters. I will try and see if I can find out how many amps the thing draws and how much pressure it created measured in inches of water. But I suspect it will be quite a range depending obviously on fan speed, but also whether one or two helmets are hooked up. No I don't work for the company.
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
Yep. There’s all sorts of applications. But has anyone actually manufactured this for utvs? That market is huge.
Yes the UTV pre-filtration for engine air was S&B's first application. They have kits for virtually all of the top selling sport Utes. These Particle Separators are used before the stock or aftermarket air filters and it eliminates 94% of the dirt before it gets to the air filter. This is the system that Wayne and Kristen Matlock run on their championship winning Polaris RZRs in SCORE. S&B just introduced a much larger system like this for pick up trucks, which will make the air filter last a very, very long time before it experiences any drop off in efficiency, but obviously that amount of time/miles depends on driving conditions. They came out with the helmet fresh air system which I think different and pretty cool...thus the reason I started this thread. S&B also just came out with a UTV clutch air intake system that filters the air via particle separators to keep sand, silt, dust, etc from destroying the CVT all without any restriction like the stock frog skin (outerwear) fine mesh thingy does when it gets dirty. The S&B website is pretty thorough ----> Best Air Filtration System For Your UTV, Truck or Jeep
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
This is the info I was able to get so far....



Helmet Noise Comparison

S&B’s Helmet Particle Separator keeps you cool with a minimal amount of “air noise,” so you can stay focused on the trail. S&B’s Variable Speed controller Knob (standard equipment) allows you to adjust the cfm rate if you want an even quieter ride. Sound was measured using an Extech model 407764 sound meter with the microphone in the ear pocket of an Impact Air Draft OS20 Helmet (Size XL) worn by a mannequin head.



Manufacturer
Part #

Decibel Level
S&B Filters
Model: 76-6000 Helmet PS
Hose: HP1608-00
Hose Length: 75”
79 dBA​
F.A.S.T.
Model: FA1130
Filter: FA1172
Hose: FA1131
Hose Fitting: FA1141, FA1142
Hose Length: 69.75"
73 dBA​
P.C.I. Race Radios
Model: RaceAir Max Dual 584
Filter: RaceAir Filter 882
Bonnet: RaceAir Bonnet 578
Hose: RaceAir Hose 576
Hose Length: 73.25"
73 dBA​
Rugged Radios
Model: MAC3.2
Filter: BLOWER-FILTER-3
Pre-Filter:BLOWER-PREFILTER-3
Hose: MAC-X-HOSE
Hose Length: 68"
79 dBA​





Pressure Comparison

The best way to evaluate systems is to compare the CFM rate as the system ingests dusty air as shown above. That being said, our competition likes to refer to pressure, so we have included those numbers as well. Using a digital manometer, we have measured the max air pressure produced by fresh air helmet blowers. Max air pressure is measured when the air flow is 0 and the blower pushes the air in an enclosed chamber. The pressure is then measured in the enclosed chamber.



Manufacturer
Model

Max Air Pressure
(inH20)
S&B Filters
Model: 76-6000 Helmet PS
Hose: HP1608-00
Hose Length: 75”
3.03​
F.A.S.T.
Model: FA1130
Filter: FA1172
Hose: FA1131
Hose Fitting: FA1141, FA1142
Hose Length: 69.75"
1.89​
P.C.I. Race Radios
Model: RaceAir Max Dual 584
Filter: RaceAir Filter 882
Bonnet: RaceAir Bonnet 578
Hose: RaceAir Hose 576
Hose Length: 73.25"
2.09​
Rugged Radios
Model: MAC3.2
Filter: BLOWER-FILTER-3
Pre-Filter:BLOWER-PREFILTER-3
Hose: MAC-X-HOSE
Hose Length: 68"
2.56​
 

_

Well-Known Member
@bajaxp,

Excellent breakdown, thank you...!!
I wish these numbers were available in past. Did you have success in obtaining current draw comparison for all these units? Current draw and weight is the last bit of data which would complete a viable comparison of the more popular helmet blowers.
Thanks...
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
I completly believe in S@Bs products, 1500 pre run miles on my xp4 and filter still looked new and have 750 on my xp4 turbo and filter does not need to be touched. If they say it works I believe them
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
@bajaxp,

Excellent breakdown, thank you...!!
I wish these numbers were available in past. Did you have success in obtaining current draw comparison for all these units? Current draw and weight is the last bit of data which would complete a viable comparison of the more popular helmet blowers.
Thanks...
No problem. Happy to help!

Sorry, I don't have a weight comparison. but the weight of the S&B PS fresh air system is listed below. I think the weights are all pretty comparable. Here is the additional info I was able to acquire....

· Variable Speed Control Knob included to adjust outlet airflow.

· Amperage Draw: 8 amps average, 9.3 amps max (amperage can be reduced with variable speed knob)

· Weight of Unit without mounting brackets: 2.8 lbs

· Weight of Unit with mounting brackets and straps for 1.75” dia roll cage: 3.8 lbs

· Efficiency Rate 99.36%, ISO Coarse Dust, Testing conducted to the ISO 5011 Standard with one hose.

· Wire harness includes ring terminals, quick connect fittings, protective sleave and illuminated rocker switch for easy and clean installation.

· Durable injection molded body with glass reinforced nylon.

· High flow, high static pressure fans built to withstand testing to the IP55 Standard and are for use in harsh conditions including dust, rain, and snow.

· Three (3) Manufacturer Limited Warranty

· The Helmet Particle Separator does not require any maintenance since it doesn’t use a filter. That being said, you can carefully clean it with compressed air (max (x) pressure) or with a pressure washer. Disconnect electrical connections and hoses prior to cleaning. Run unit for 5 minutes without hoses connected prior to use. Learn more at How to Clean your Helmet Particle Separator (link to video). Use proper personal protection including eyewear.

· Dual port outlets are 1-⅝” OD and are used with S&B’s 1.5” ID hose. Dual rubber caps utilize integrated rubbers straps to prevent loss and are included with each system.
 

_

Well-Known Member
ProAIRE 1.2:

Dimensions: 4.5" x 5"
Weight: 14.5oz (with mounting bracket)
Max CFM: 31.8
Max Press: 2.29 (inchH2O)
Rated Current: 1.4 A
Variable Speed Capable: Yes
Motor Housing: Aluminum
Outputs: Single 1.25" Hose Barb
"Patent Pending" US Patent Office

ProAIRE Image.jpeg
 
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_

Well-Known Member
A question was posed regarding decibel level. The blower motor manufacture specs the blower motor at 62dBA.
 

novaman64

Well-Known Member
Has anybody done any real world testing on this S&B forced air? Setting up my new race UTV and interested in this vs the tried and true PCI/Rugged setups. Also, curious on the size, trying to figure out where to fit it.
 

retroblazer

Well-Known Member
Nice to see some comparisons, but the pressure reading isn’t really very useful. I’m looking for an apples to apples comparison. First, all hose lengths should be the same. The measurement would be Cfm out of the end of the hose, at the helmet . If it’s a dual outlet blower, then let’s see the numbers when both hoses are being used.
 
Seven months since OP: anyone seen a user review yet?
 

cbh82v

New Member
I ran one of these in the rally class at the UTV worlds in Laughlin. It worked well. We had the flow turned all the way up for two of us. there was plenty of air flow. It is a bit noisey with out ear protection. I usually wear ear plugs. So with ear plugs in I had no problem hearing the radio and intercom and couldn't hear the pumper. someone mentioned size. its not huge and the included hardware has lots of mounting options. the only thing is that the bottom has to be level.
Someone else was questioning what happens if roost or large particles enter and destroy the fan. We ate plenty of roost during the race. It has stator fins in the inlet holes that do not allow large particles to enter. Ours was caked with roost and mud spray from the watered sections. It didn't affect the performance at all.
I'm mostly into trail riding with a race here and there. So not sure how it will do under constant hard racing conditions. But so far I'm happy with it.
 

Dezertpilot

Well-Known Member
Yes the UTV pre-filtration for engine air was S&B's first application. They have kits for virtually all of the top selling sport Utes. These Particle Separators are used before the stock or aftermarket air filters and it eliminates 94% of the dirt before it gets to the air filter. This is the system that Wayne and Kristen Matlock run on their championship winning Polaris RZRs in SCORE. S&B just introduced a much larger system like this for pick up trucks, which will make the air filter last a very, very long time before it experiences any drop off in efficiency, but obviously that amount of time/miles depends on driving conditions. They came out with the helmet fresh air system which I think different and pretty cool...thus the reason I started this thread. S&B also just came out with a UTV clutch air intake system that filters the air via particle separators to keep sand, silt, dust, etc from destroying the CVT all without any restriction like the stock frog skin (outerwear) fine mesh thingy does when it gets dirty. The S&B website is pretty thorough ----> Best Air Filtration System For Your UTV, Truck or Jeep
If they will have these for gen2 Raptors I'll be buying one ASAP!
 
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