Horizontal Uniball vs Vertical Uniball

Tech Tim

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I know that this has been covered in a few threads already, but after reading all the threads that came up with the search Uniball, Uniball orientation, Uniball horizontal (and Vertical), I still have a few questions and would hoping some of you could enlighten me.

From what I read, the main advantages to running the Uniball horizontal is strength and travel. It is the shear load on the bolt, versus the load of the Uniball pushing up out of the cup and with the bolt running horizontal, the up/down travel is not limited to the Uniball.

Has anyone seen a vertical Uniball failure?
 

Tech Tim

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That makes sense, but I am real curious if there has been vertical Uniball failures?
 
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rojodiablo

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That makes sense, but I am real curious if there has been vertical Uniball failures?

Yes. Toyota Tacomas have the vertical uniball, and the socket has been deformed due to excessive topping out. And, spindles can break if there is a hydro bump that hits the top of the uniball. As for totally shearing off, I have not seen that except when the entire arm got torn off the truck- and the uniball was the least of the problems on that one. It's a pretty good design for most moderate use rigs.
 

Bulldozer

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Yes. Toyota Tacomas have the vertical uniball, and the socket has been deformed due to excessive topping out. And, spindles can break if there is a hydro bump that hits the top of the uniball. As for totally shearing off, I have not seen that except when the entire arm got torn off the truck- and the uniball was the least of the problems on that one. It's a pretty good design for most moderate use rigs.

Exactly what he said.

I like vertical uniballs but there must be some reason trophy trucks use horizontal, and I presume the is the added strength.
 

Tech Tim

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Thanks for the input guys.

I like the strength of the horizontal mounting, but the max amount of angle I've found from uniball spacers is only 37 deg and would really like to squeeze a bit more steering angle. It's one of those cake and icing too things. Want the ultimate steering and the ultimate strength. :rolleyes:
 

Tech Tim

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So here is an interesting question. Has anyone ever tried to use a Johny Joint or similar like the Alcan Orbit Eye in place of a Uniball?

Stolen from Alcans site:

orbiteye%20003a.jpg


orbiteyetwist4a.jpg


I realize it couldn't be done in a verticle application, but how about in a horizontal position. Alcan says their O Eyes will pivot 46 degrees, that would give me more than I want for steering angle.

I would guess the weak points would be the aluminum spanner nuts?
 

151fab

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That's going to depend on your application. Depending on their strength, those might be a good idea for the street because they will reduce the noise and vibrations sent to the frame. In a more aggressive application I would think the poly would deform too much and might overheat or wear too quickly. Also, some of those units use a hollow bolt (big no-no) to lube the ball and almost all of them use a bolt that, in my opinion, is too small of a diameter for anything more than light prerunner usage. It might be hard to package that unit into your spindle at the lower pivot, those tings are huge, and still end up with reasonable scrub while keeping the a-arms nice and long..
 
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Tech Tim

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That's 46 DEG total, 23 per side....... Want to buy some........

Yikes... nope.

I was hoping to find 45 degrees. The closest I've found were some Uniball spacers that have 37 degrees, maybe thats the closest I'll be able to come without designing my own Timmy Joint with all new Ultra-high misalingment spacers. :D :D :D
 

partybarge_pilot

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Yikes... nope.

I was hoping to find 45 degrees. The closest I've found were some Uniball spacers that have 37 degrees, maybe thats the closest I'll be able to come without designing my own Timmy Joint with all new Ultra-high misalingment spacers. :D :D :D


Well, theres always the Cone ball joints, scroll about halfway down the page. http://www.coneindustries.com/partsgallery.php
 

Tech Tim

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If it's strong enough the Geiser built trucks I'm sure it will be strong enough for your application.
http://www.geiserbros.com/events.htm

Thanks for the link Teeny, lot's of neat ideas there.

Rumor over is that the Teeny car is going IFS? Thinking KOH for next year???? :D

Well, theres always the Cone ball joints, scroll about halfway down the page. http://www.coneindustries.com/partsgallery.php

I forgot Sandy did those, cool thanks for the link. :cool:
 

Tech Tim

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37 degrees should be more than enough for making tight turning radius'... Unless your building a Zamboni.

Yep, you guessed it, living up here in WA, we don't get much desert time, so I figured a long travel Zamboni would be just about right for these long cold winters.... :D



Seriously though, we're designing up a long travel IFS rock racer and would use every bit of 45 degrees if we can get it. We want the IFS for the fast sections, need to be able to turn sharp as possible in the tight sections, but also need the most strength so we can hammer it hard through the medium rock sections that slow down the live front axle rigs. Alot to ask I know, just trying to eat the cake and have it too.
 

Jerry Zaiden

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I know that this has been covered in a few threads already, but after reading all the threads that came up with the search Uniball, Uniball orientation, Uniball horizontal (and Vertical), I still have a few questions and would hoping some of you could enlighten me.

From what I read, the main advantages to running the Uniball horizontal is strength and travel. It is the shear load on the bolt, versus the load of the Uniball pushing up out of the cup and with the bolt running horizontal, the up/down travel is not limited to the Uniball.

Has anyone seen a vertical Uniball failure?

What are you building?
 

Tech Tim

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What are you building?

A rock racer buggy.

Long travel IFS
Rear live axle
37" tires
Tube Chassis
Front engine V6, set back and low
Manual trans
Dual T-cases
Going for as light as possible without sacrificing strength.

I talked with Scott Z at the ORI show a couple weeks back and was asking about your kits on display, the 4wd susp had the vert UBs and the 2wd susp had the horz UBs.
 

Tech Tim

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I wheel in the desert so it just makes sense. How are you guys doing it? I'm still trying to decide on cv or u-joint.

We're planning on running CVs for the smooth action, we're just worried about finding something stronger enough to work the way we want it. So we are kind of thinking Longfield CVs. They'll turn 45 deg and stand up to way bigger equipment than we are planning on.

Did you ever see Jeremy Pariot's (BFE Films) rock racer with IFS and u-joints? I'll try to dig up a pick or two.
 
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