How did all the Vintage cars at the 1000 do?

51rcr

Well-Known Member
We made it all the way in the V511 jeep scrambler but with some work. Took us 58:31 so we were out of official time. at 1013 our time was up so we did some extra repairs to make sure we made the end. The chop was horrible and was every where. The whoops for miles I sure wish we could have some speed in them but no way.
We cought back up to the buggy that sounded like it was hardly running and shortly after had to pull the drive slugs since frontend was making noise from loosing most all diff cover bolts and fluid from smashing so many rocks. We changed how we did its mounting, will go back to the other way where we only lost a few bolts before. Wasted time in the one silt bed bypass trying to find the vintage by pass, Only road we found was right into a rock quarry, Damn near went in it. No luck so just went back to the course after that. Had steering issues with pitman arm and splines, Mag 7 and BFG pits had welders so from half way point it would keep getting worse till we rewelded it every few hundred miles. At the end I forgot the team which I will add later lent us a gen and welder for the last repair. I drove it a few hundred miles with a full turn of slack in it. Oddly enough the asphalt was the worse to drive on with the slack. Over on the west coast fish camp area at a deep water crossing the fan got the radiator and it was patched, then bottom 5 leaf springs broke out of one side at halfway point. Fixed them. radiator wasn't leaking so left it in. Oil dip stick broke loose. 500 miles later the other sides same leafs broke so fixed them. Put drive slugs in and out for some silt beds, got stuck cause didn't have them in and bad line choice. Warn winch and pull pal made stuff easier especially later once the front end was junk and not more option for 4wd. One brake line which was probly from the winch cord going around the tire. No flats, one popped off bead from landing sideways wo that's impressive. Thanks BFG for amazing tires and support
So all in all it was really rough course for us by the time we got to it. 6" wash boards everywhere to whoops and accerlation whoops out of every corner got old subce we feel everything and there is not smooth. Good suspension would have been such a good ride.
That's just a quick jumbled mess tidbit of our experience.
 

LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
We made it all the way in the V511 jeep scrambler but with some work. Took us 58:31 so we were out of official time. at 1013 our time was up so we did some extra repairs to make sure we made the end. The chop was horrible and was every where. The whoops for miles I sure wish we could have some speed in them but no way.
We cought back up to the buggy that sounded like it was hardly running and shortly after had to pull the drive slugs since frontend was making noise from loosing most all diff cover bolts and fluid from smashing so many rocks. We changed how we did its mounting, will go back to the other way where we only lost a few bolts before. Wasted time in the one silt bed bypass trying to find the vintage by pass, Only road we found was right into a rock quarry, Damn near went in it. No luck so just went back to the course after that. Had steering issues with pitman arm and splines, Mag 7 and BFG pits had welders so from half way point it would keep getting worse till we rewelded it every few hundred miles. At the end I forgot the team which I will add later lent us a gen and welder for the last repair. I drove it a few hundred miles with a full turn of slack in it. Oddly enough the asphalt was the worse to drive on with the slack. Over on the west coast fish camp area at a deep water crossing the fan got the radiator and it was patched, then bottom 5 leaf springs broke out of one side at halfway point. Fixed them. radiator wasn't leaking so left it in. Oil dip stick broke loose. 500 miles later the other sides same leafs broke so fixed them. Put drive slugs in and out for some silt beds, got stuck cause didn't have them in and bad line choice. Warn winch and pull pal made stuff easier especially later once the front end was junk and not more option for 4wd. One brake line which was probly from the winch cord going around the tire. No flats, one popped off bead from landing sideways wo that's impressive. Thanks BFG for amazing tires and support
So all in all it was really rough course for us by the time we got to it. 6" wash boards everywhere to whoops and accerlation whoops out of every corner got old subce we feel everything and there is not smooth. Good suspension would have been such a good ride.
That's just a quick jumbled mess tidbit of our experience.
Wow! And I thought we had it rough. Although we were second as far as Race Miles go and did not finish we are generally very excited about the new car’s potential.

Driving at about 75% we were the first vintage vehicle on the course with an 80 mile lead at RM360. Then things took a turn for the worse. At about RM 410 we sheared an inner tie rod end. The car continued on with the left front wobbling a bit until the nasty silt hole that opened up which jammed the left front at 90 degrees left. It took hours to get it to successfully 3 wheel. We went another 65 miles on three wheels until we could meet up with the team. The front end was reassembled and the Weber carburetor was fixed. The carb had a needle and seat that was not closing causing flooding and fuel finding its way out anywhere it could. By the time everything was fixed, the next check point was closed but we were going for it anyway. The car ran perfect and it was flying through the woops past El Arco when we sheared the same tie rod end. A wild ride through some cactus and and out of spare parts our race ended.

The car was restored like it last ran but we think the extra mass of the bead lock wheels is too much for the Ford Tie rod ends. The front end will be rebuilt with a double shear Heim setup. The carb will be dry sumped with a facet pump acting as a scavenge pump. We think with these changes the car could be good for the Baja 1000 and great for NORRA!


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Chris_Wilson

Well-Known Member
I think the Vintage results show that SCORE should not have Vintage classes. The SCORE race tracks just tear up Vintage machines. BTW, did Vintage run the same miles and course as the Pro classes?

The routes modern SCORE courses use are way rougher than what was run in the Vintage days. I think it's a shame for guys to update Vintage cars to run modern courses. Vintage cars should run on Vintage tracks IMHO.
 

Dirty Harry

Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing Shane, it looks like you guys had such an amazing adventure! What a great way to celebrate Jason’s birthday.


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LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
I think the Vintage results show that SCORE should not have Vintage classes. The SCORE race tracks just tear up Vintage machines. BTW, did Vintage run the same miles and course as the Pro classes?

The routes modern SCORE courses use are way rougher than what was run in the Vintage days. I think it's a shame for guys to update Vintage cars to run modern courses. Vintage cars should run on Vintage tracks IMHO.
Chris, what worries me is what will NORRA be like this year? A big percentage of this years Baja 1000 course was on what we raced on this year at NORRA. All the pre-running and over 400 entries tore the course up pretty bad.

There were two short cuts given to class 11 and Vintage although the mileage was still about the same. The first short cut was to eliminate the soft sand wash on the west side of the 1 south of Gonzaga. Although NORRA actually used this section. The other was to turn left onto the 1 at Visciano rather than cross the highway. The course and class11/vintage rejoined near the military checkpoint just before San Ignacio.

One thought I had on the long drive home was that maybe NORRA should have a max 37” tire size limit. With more and more unlimited’s showing up each year it won’t be long before the Vintage cars are looking for permanent homes in museums.


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51rcr

Well-Known Member
Having never had the jeep to Baja before we learned lots. With out front end issues and the steering and start with new leaf springs not used made packs would have made a huge difference. Just really rough ride. Who would think that that many springs would break. I think a blow out hole like at 460 ish is what got our steering also. The pit guys said that blow out big hole wasn't there when they came in. I cant imagine how smooth of a course all the good suspension and big tired cars got.
 

51rcr

Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing Shane, it looks like you guys had such an amazing adventure! What a great way to celebrate Jason’s birthday.


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Yeah after about 5 minutes at the end Brad said heres your tore up beat to sh-- jeep for a birthday present haha.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
I don't think you can discount most vintage buggies since 5-1600 and 1 half 1600 are not really too different from those days and they finish. Even 11 cars finished. Huge tires and monster horsepower are what are making these courses harder. I wish every promoter would have a max tire size of 37"s, but that is my opinion and I am not a promoter. For Lantana's team, I think if you had the shorter front arms in there, you guys would have been fine, but it is Monday Morning! You found a problem and will fix it and carry on and win. I also think it would be very tough for any first time team to try and run ANY straight axle 4x4 in a Baja race, regardless of class, and finish. To even attempt that is Badassery in my opinion. And you all have fantastic stories, regardless of how you did.
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
Been begging for a 37" tire rule for years as almost all the races are run over the same courses/general areas Baja or stateside. But all the promoters seems to care about is the bigger classes and the big class guys don't seem to care about the sport, just their interests.

BG makes a great point about the limited classes finishing but I can see the flip side as a Jeep is much different than a limited buggy...
 

51rcr

Well-Known Member
yeah Class 11s are amazing and run the same course, and are really vintage. Practice and knowing where and how to hit what. Luck and when to replace a part. I think some of them bring 3 whole front beams and replace them during the race. Either way there unbelievably amazing and impressive. Theres a reason they have a following and fans out there till the end of the end. True Grit
 

retroblazer

Well-Known Member
Great stories. 58+ hours of leaf spring fun/torture. Too bad about the buggy breaking, but it sure looked good.


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LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
I don't think you can discount most vintage buggies since 5-1600 and 1 half 1600 are not really too different from those days and they finish. Even 11 cars finished. Huge tires and monster horsepower are what are making these courses harder. I wish every promoter would have a max tire size of 37"s, but that is my opinion and I am not a promoter. For Lantana's team, I think if you had the shorter front arms in there, you guys would have been fine, but it is Monday Morning! You found a problem and will fix it and carry on and win. I also think it would be very tough for any first time team to try and run ANY straight axle 4x4 in a Baja race, regardless of class, and finish. To even attempt that is Badassery in my opinion. And you all have fantastic stories, regardless of how you did.
Yes, Martin you are correct, the original Wright arms probably would have made it. We had a choice of running the original +1 1/2 Wright arms with no spares or move up to class legal readily available Woods +2 1/4" arms and have spares. We chose to have spares. Our Wright rack has a straight fairly thin blade where the rod ends attach to it and the car was beat pretty hard at Barstow in testing. We also are running a heavier beadlock wheel. We believe the longer arms increased the leverage and the extra mass and angle on the rod end didn't help.

After the race we were looking at some spare Wright racks we have in the shop and noticed one of them has a much thicker blade on the bottom with the tie rod attachment holes angled back for longer arms. When we fix the front end, we intend to use that rack with 3/4" Heims and misalignment spacers that will allow a 5/8th's bolt. We think these changes should make it bullet proof. It's a bummer we DNF'd but this was its first race and we are thrilled with the car's potential.
 

luvbaja2

Well-Known Member
Bob, I saw your car at the shop and in Ensenada. You guys did an outstanding job! Looks FAST just sitting there! After hearing your story regarding the front end I'm a little concerned about my car. The longer 21/4" arms I bought were for stock link pins. (5/8"). I have the King Kong link pin set up. (7/8"). I ended up cutting off the ends of the new arms and having the larger 7/8" (King Kong) ends put on. My new longer tie rods will be made with 1" x 1/4" wall tubing. The ends are threaded for 3/4" International rod ends. Looking for any input from your experience or anybody else
 

oldschool5er

Well-Known Member
Yes, Martin you are correct, the original Wright arms probably would have made it. We had a choice of running the original +1 1/2 Wright arms with no spares or move up to class legal readily available Woods +2 1/4" arms and have spares. We chose to have spares. Our Wright rack has a straight fairly thin blade where the rod ends attach to it and the car was beat pretty hard at Barstow in testing. We also are running a heavier beadlock wheel. We believe the longer arms increased the leverage and the extra mass and angle on the rod end didn't help.

After the race we were looking at some spare Wright racks we have in the shop and noticed one of them has a much thicker blade on the bottom with the tie rod attachment holes angled back for longer arms. When we fix the front end, we intend to use that rack with 3/4" Heims and misalignment spacers that will allow a 5/8th's bolt. We think these changes should make it bullet proof. It's a bummer we DNF'd but this was its first race and we are thrilled with the car's potential.
I have been using the Chinese rack in my old Wright rack housings using the Wright pinion when it is still good. They fit. I take a mill cut on the housing rack bed to tighten the pinion clearance if it needs it. Depends on the ratio though as only 1 ratio fits. Wright made two ratios I believe. The Chinese rack has a heavier blade and better Tie rod angles. I have not lost one yet in the 3 I have done.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
On Bob's car, they switched to longer front arms, but didn't move the rack mount. My guess is the rack was just a bit too far forward for the angle when the arms were at their mid point of travel and put the tie rod at the rack just passed its safe spot. They are already figuring out the fix. Car is beautiful and if they could just not stop to pee on the sides of freeways, I would think they weren't broke down on the way to races!
 
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