I wanna build my own uprights. . .

atomicjoe23

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I wanna build my own uprights for a 2-seat, 2WD, mid-engine desert buggy. . .built to Class 10 specs

where should I start???

I've heard the '86-95 Toyota uprights are good because they are forged so they can be easily welded to. . .I also heard about older Toyota bolt-on spindles. . .

Anyway. . .I would like to build my own uprights just because I have the welding capabilities and I prefer to build as much as I can as opposed to buying it. . .I have a little bit of experience designing/building off-road suspension systems (as in I designed and build the front and rear suspension for a single seat race buggy that me and 3 of my friends built together this past winter and that's it). . .so I'm familiar with the important terms and what effect different geometry characteristics have on a suspension (to an extent. . .I'm not a pro!!!), and I have read what I can get my hands on, but most of it is for road going vehicles and not all of it is applicable. . .I've already noticed that off-road vehicles run way more KPI than road going vehicles do (12-14*) resulting in more scrub radius. . .something that should be kept to a minimum on road race cars. . .

. . .anyway if I wanna do this what should I shoot for for numbers??? I know that I will probably be running 35"-37" tires and the wheels will be 15-16" and I'm gonna shoot for somewhere around 20" of travel in the front (more is better. . .to an extent) and I would say an overall weight of no more than 4000 lbs.

Suggest a spindle to start with and I think I can figure the rest out from there. . .if you wanna suggest caster, camber angles at ride height that's cool (explain why you are suggesting your numbers vs. other numbers please though) and if you wanna explain why such a large KPI I woul appreciate that as well. . .

I know that I want my tie rods to be double shear using rod ends, I wanna uniball UCA & LCA mounts. . .I can fab these for way less than I could buy them (I'm seeing a couple of grand for actual cost), granted it would take me way longer, but right now I have way more time than money. . .

Thanks for your help
 

atomicjoe23

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OK. . .since posting this I have done a whole lot more looking (in like 5 minutes right. . .) and I think what I really need to know is where can I get 1-pc. snout plate/clevis assemblies???

I see that ProAm has upright assemblies, but I don't know if they sell just the snout plate/clevis?

Who else makes these besides ProAm. . .I looked at BMS uprights and I like them a lot, but can't afford anything like that. . .I could CAD the clevis snout plate myself (very proficient at CAD. . .getting there with SW) but I'm sure that it would cost me almost the same to have a set machined as it would to just buy them ready to go. . .the school has a lathe and a Bridgeport mill, but although I do have some experience using them I think that I wouldn't know exactly where to start to make my own 1-pc. snout plate/clevis nor do I know all the exact dimensions that I would need

I guess it doesn't really matter if the spindles are bolt on or weld-in. . .

Thanks again for the help!!!
 

atomicjoe23

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Hey. . .Thanks Big Fish. . .I don't know how I missed them on the site before. . .

. . .they are PRICY though!!!
 

Blitzkrieg Motorsports

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Dezertpilot

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Hey. . .Thanks Big Fish. . .I don't know how I missed them on the site before. . .

. . .they are PRICY though!!!
You get what you pay for almost 100% of the time. Building a buggy or truck is not cheap by any means, I gave up and got a bike. Even those are 'spencive!:eek:
 

atomicjoe23

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Those are the ones that I was referring to as pricy. . .$1300 is probably a fair price for 4130 billet snout clevis including uniball high misalignment spacers, but that is also out of reach of a double full-time college (I'm averaging ~20 credits per quarter!!! trying to complete an ATA's in Welding Technology and Technical Design and somehow squeeze an AS in Engineering as well) student living off of the GI Bill (all those classes doesn't leave me anytime to hold down a job, but I did spend the last 9 years in the USN so I don't feel bad taking a small break from work). . .I am a HUGE fan of BMS' parts though. . .I spend a lot of time on the website just looking at the pictures of the parts trying to learn as much as I can just by looking at quality craftsmanship. . .

. . .I was finally able to save up enough money for a Millermatic 211 (and now the penny pinching for a Miller Dynasty 200 and a Thermal Arc Cutmaster 82 start!) so I don't have the kind of cash to spend a grand on a single component of an upright. . .

. . .that being said I think that I'm gonna have to go with scrounging the junkyard for some mid '90's forged Toyota uprights from a V-6 4x4 pickup/4-runner and converting them to double shear tie rod mounts, and uniballs for the upper and lower control arms. I like the idea of the '79-85 bolt on spindles but I'm not sure about what those spindles would bolt onto or fabricating my own snout clevis. . .
 

Blitzkrieg Motorsports

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Those are the ones that I was referring to as pricy. . .$1300 is probably a fair price for 4130 billet snout clevis including uniball high misalignment spacers, but that is also out of reach of a double full-time college (I'm averaging ~20 credits per quarter!!! trying to complete an ATA's in Welding Technology and Technical Design and somehow squeeze an AS in Engineering as well) student living off of the GI Bill (all those classes doesn't leave me anytime to hold down a job, but I did spend the last 9 years in the USN so I don't feel bad taking a small break from work). . .I am a HUGE fan of BMS' parts though. . .I spend a lot of time on the website just looking at the pictures of the parts trying to learn as much as I can just by looking at quality craftsmanship. . .

. . .I was finally able to save up enough money for a Millermatic 211 (and now the penny pinching for a Miller Dynasty 200 and a Thermal Arc Cutmaster 82 start!) so I don't have the kind of cash to spend a grand on a single component of an upright. . .

. . .that being said I think that I'm gonna have to go with scrounging the junkyard for some mid '90's forged Toyota uprights from a V-6 4x4 pickup/4-runner and converting them to double shear tie rod mounts, and uniballs for the upper and lower control arms. I like the idea of the '79-85 bolt on spindles but I'm not sure about what those spindles would bolt onto or fabricating my own snout clevis. . .
Ok... I got ya!
Yeah, I personally know how college life was. Pinching every penny trying to save up for the next 6 pack haha jk

We also have Ranger and Chevy snout blocks. Which I'm sure you've seen.

Good luck with the project! Make sure to post pics of the progress so we can check it out.

_Dennis
 

atomicjoe23

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I will be sure to post pic's. . .I'll start a new thread for it. . .

. . .right now I'm just trying to figure out what parts I'm gonna use and accumulate all the parts so that I can start putting stuff into SolidWorks and BendTech. . .one thing that I learned building a single seat race buggy with my buddies was that you really need to have all your parts ahead of time (or at least know all the dimensions) otherwise you'll be spending more time figuring out how to creatively make things fit/get rid of interference issues than you will actually building anything!!!
 

spi6616

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You were asking about KPI and to put it bluntly, It is never a fixed dimension for any car period! To achieve proper KPI you need to start with all your components from the wheel, (for offset) tire, (for the diameter dim. needed) hub, (for offset of your kingpin/balljoint centerline). from there you simple draw a line through the kingpin centerline with all dimensions together and land it somewhere (only because of dirt track/desert racing) from the inside of the tire patch on the ground not to exceed the centerline on the tire patch. The closer to the inside patch the scrub radius will create a stronger steering feel (power steering even!). To achieve akerment (a bell crank mechanical steer radius) you need to point the steering arm to the centerline of your differential (again never "one part fits all" differing greatly with different wheelbases) Good luck in your build.
 

atomicjoe23

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I learned this the hard way with the last project. . .3 of my buddies and I built a single seat STV (sport terrain vehicle) and we designed and built the frame and A-arms before we had stuff like the steering rack, shock absorbers, etc. and we ran into all sorts of problems. . .

. . .so lesson learned is that I will get all the parts I plan on using before I even build a single thing! I'll go ahead and get some desing stuff into CAD and SolidWorks (just learning SW) because that is actually really easy to modify, but I won't actually build anything until I have it all and can get all the dimensions to make sure that I don't end up with clearance and interference issues. . .

. . .it takes way less time to wait for parts to show up than it does to try and figure out how you are gonna make a square block go in a round hole!!!
 
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