In case of emergency...

ndvalium

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I've been racing for 25 years and I just learned here that a helicopter needs my weight to launch? How the hell is that not required on the entry form?
It is critical in certain altitudes and heat combination. Specifically obviously with heavier people. If someone is 150-175 ish that is considered a normal additional payload. Time of day, landing zone all play into it. Altitude where accident was sits about 5200 feet in the heat of the day. Just the worst case possible plus need to have well over hour of fuel on board for flight to Vegas. Extreme heat days we have had helicopters not able to lift for high altitude calls. It has improved but still a factor in the summer.

In some areas if they have a runway, they can use the long straight away to fly low, build speed and eventually generate lift. That is what they had to do in landing here. Rather than a hover and drop it on the spot they did a long approach above the course to the ground.

However to your question, with a multitude of drivers in every vehicle, and zero desire to broadcast which driver or even team is being flown out, it’s just simpler to get an estimate from the team on scene.

the pilot then goes through his weights, measures, balance and altitude calculations and determined if he can max fuel or needs to keep it close. They have to figure time to scene, time to circle assuming the scene is where they hope it is. Idle time on scene for hot load and transport time to hospital. In this case the helicopter came from Pahrump but would fly to Vegas with the patient, and still need enough fuel to leave hospital and go to north Las Vegas airport for fuel. So many factors come into play. On rare occasions, the medic or equipment is left at a scene to be retrieved later. (I’ve been that medic to be retrieved later).
 

paranoid56

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It is critical in certain altitudes and heat combination. Specifically obviously with heavier people. If someone is 150-175 ish that is considered a normal additional payload. Time of day, landing zone all play into it. Altitude where accident was sits about 5200 feet in the heat of the day. Just the worst case possible plus need to have well over hour of fuel on board for flight to Vegas. Extreme heat days we have had helicopters not able to lift for high altitude calls. It has improved but still a factor in the summer.

In some areas if they have a runway, they can use the long straight away to fly low, build speed and eventually generate lift. That is what they had to do in landing here. Rather than a hover and drop it on the spot they did a long approach above the course to the ground.

However to your question, with a multitude of drivers in every vehicle, and zero desire to broadcast which driver or even team is being flown out, it’s just simpler to get an estimate from the team on scene.

the pilot then goes through his weights, measures, balance and altitude calculations and determined if he can max fuel or needs to keep it close. They have to figure time to scene, time to circle assuming the scene is where they hope it is. Idle time on scene for hot load and transport time to hospital. In this case the helicopter came from Pahrump but would fly to Vegas with the patient, and still need enough fuel to leave hospital and go to north Las Vegas airport for fuel. So many factors come into play. On rare occasions, the medic or equipment is left at a scene to be retrieved later. (I’ve been that medic to be retrieved later).
wow, that is nuts to me, but so much great info for somebody that had no idea. i would have thought they would just fuel up and go lol. I get the altitude issues but wow. Thanks for all this info.
 

johndjmix

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Very good info there for many that don't understand how many things go into what seems like a simple op. I know back in NY, at the many car accidents we responded to, usually it was faster to just load the patient in one of our smaller ambulances and transport than wait for the helo....

--John

It is critical in certain altitudes and heat combination. Specifically obviously with heavier people. If someone is 150-175 ish that is considered a normal additional payload. Time of day, landing zone all play into it. Altitude where accident was sits about 5200 feet in the heat of the day. Just the worst case possible plus need to have well over hour of fuel on board for flight to Vegas. Extreme heat days we have had helicopters not able to lift for high altitude calls. It has improved but still a factor in the summer.

In some areas if they have a runway, they can use the long straight away to fly low, build speed and eventually generate lift. That is what they had to do in landing here. Rather than a hover and drop it on the spot they did a long approach above the course to the ground.

However to your question, with a multitude of drivers in every vehicle, and zero desire to broadcast which driver or even team is being flown out, it’s just simpler to get an estimate from the team on scene.

the pilot then goes through his weights, measures, balance and altitude calculations and determined if he can max fuel or needs to keep it close. They have to figure time to scene, time to circle assuming the scene is where they hope it is. Idle time on scene for hot load and transport time to hospital. In this case the helicopter came from Pahrump but would fly to Vegas with the patient, and still need enough fuel to leave hospital and go to north Las Vegas airport for fuel. So many factors come into play. On rare occasions, the medic or equipment is left at a scene to be retrieved later. (I’ve been that medic to be retrieved later).
 

Honda48X

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Dave, correct me if I'm wrong on this. In Washington State we require Fire Department on location (EMT or Paramedic) to confirm injuries before Dispatch will start a Helo to a location. This can also add time to a response because you dont want a Helo being taken out of service for EMT's and Paramedics to arrive and say the person is stable and can go by Ambulance. Lots of factors to be taken into consideration for a Medivac to be dispatched.
 

AZ7000'

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The honest truth is it is about $$$ a majority of the time. I was riding with the az state police helo as the private company was on a call and would have arrived at the scene after us. Since the state can not compete with private enterprise we confirmed they would be delayed, fueled and headed out. After flying for 12 min or so we saw their bird paralleling us and both landed on the highway at the same time. Their staff went running to the scene and told the patient they had an rn and a medic, we only had a medic and a non “flight” rn. The patient chose them, they left out the part about free vs $40k or so. We wasted a bunch of fuel, it was a beautiful flight though.
The air ambulance is one of the last non to minimally regulated healthcare entities. Their reasons to fly or not have a LOT to do with the bottom line…. They will fly a broken ankle, and they are really good at leins and foreclosures!!
 

Big Whitey

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The honest truth is it is about $$$ a majority of the time. I was riding with the az state police helo as the private company was on a call and would have arrived at the scene after us. Since the state can not compete with private enterprise we confirmed they would be delayed, fueled and headed out. After flying for 12 min or so we saw their bird paralleling us and both landed on the highway at the same time. Their staff went running to the scene and told the patient they had an rn and a medic, we only had a medic and a non “flight” rn. The patient chose them, they left out the part about free vs $40k or so. We wasted a bunch of fuel, it was a beautiful flight though.
The air ambulance is one of the last non to minimally regulated healthcare entities. Their reasons to fly or not have a LOT to do with the bottom line…. They will fly a broken ankle, and they are really good at leins and foreclosures!!
When I got flown it cost $1000.00 a loaded mile approximately,I’m sure it’s more now with fuel costs. I can’t say I enjoyed the flight, I had a window bed but didn’t do much in the sightseeing part. Thanks to David and his crew I was on time for the flight though.
We would be in a huge world of fly food without him doing his thing. More of us need to thank him instead of making him explain that the guy that got hurt was a …………………
 

ndvalium

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Dave, correct me if I'm wrong on this. In Washington State we require Fire Department on location (EMT or Paramedic) to confirm injuries before Dispatch will start a Helo to a location. This can also add time to a response because you dont want a Helo being taken out of service for EMT's and Paramedics to arrive and say the person is stable and can go by Ambulance. Lots of factors to be taken into consideration for a Medivac to be dispatched.
We are fortunate specifically in the Vegas to Reno that we contract ahead of time with Careflight. Best in the Desert covers fuel costs to relocate the hospital to areas that are normally hour responses. If we have credible information for an injury, we will launch in hopes that we meet them there at the same time we get there to provide ground resources. We have been very lucky to build this relationship with them. In 99% of other events however that does hold true. Unfortunately in this event we had way to many flights. Broken backs, punctured lungs and shattered pelvis all got rides within a few minutes. First time we have run into this situation with so many depleted at the same time.

The honest truth is it is about $$$ a majority of the time. I was riding with the az state police helo as the private company was on a call and would have arrived at the scene after us. Since the state can not compete with private enterprise we confirmed they would be delayed, fueled and headed out. After flying for 12 min or so we saw their bird paralleling us and both landed on the highway at the same time. Their staff went running to the scene and told the patient they had an rn and a medic, we only had a medic and a non “flight” rn. The patient chose them, they left out the part about free vs $40k or so. We wasted a bunch of fuel, it was a beautiful flight though.
The air ambulance is one of the last non to minimally regulated healthcare entities. Their reasons to fly or not have a LOT to do with the bottom line…. They will fly a broken ankle, and they are really good at leins and foreclosures!!
One of the issues that continues to plague is in some rural areas is often you have just one rural volunteer ambulance that serves hundreds of miles. Often something that would be a normal ambulance ride in many communities is a flight solely so they don’t take their ambulance to far from their community to serve their residents. We had 2 this race that I personally would not have flown. They got the same treatment that they would have gotten riding in a seat with their team. On the opposite we also had one that should have flown, was recommended to be flown and fought it every step of the way.

Bike riders sure are an interesting breed…
When I got flown it cost $1000.00 a loaded mile approximately,I’m sure it’s more now with fuel costs. I can’t say I enjoyed the flight, I had a window bed but didn’t do much in the sightseeing part. Thanks to David and his crew I was on time for the flight though.
We would be in a huge world of fly food without him doing his thing. More of us need to thank him instead of making him explain that the guy that got hurt was a …………………
Very few know how close I was to closing down Motorsports Safety Solutions in the days before you died! We were very discouraged and challenged by the lack of support from promoters and racers. This is not a cheap operation. It takes constant support and improvements to allow us to help people. My right hand guy William and I had discussed giving up in the days before Parker. We both looked at each other as we sent you down the road and knew that was why we did this. We made a difference in at least one life. We were out in a place for a reason. Since then on days we struggle, I look through a handful of thank you notes. I scroll through my phone at all the new friends I’ve met by “accident” and know I’ll go as long as I can.
 

paranoid56

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i wonder if that rider knew the costs and would have to pay for it lol. i bought that coverage for Reach Air for our local desert moto racing, i figured at 65 a year it was kinda worth it lol
 

SN8KE

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i wonder if that rider knew the costs and would have to pay for it lol. i bought that coverage for Reach Air for our local desert moto racing, i figured at 65 a year it was kinda worth it lol
I believe by law you have to be notified of the cost associated with a whirly bird flight before hand. Not the case with ambulance rides though (which ain't cheap either).
 

AZ7000'

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Not from a scene
 

ndvalium

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I believe by law you have to be notified of the cost associated with a whirly bird flight before hand. Not the case with ambulance rides though (which ain't cheap either).
25 years associated with Helicopter EMS - Have never had that done in EMS. Ambulance or Helicopter. Care is for the patient in what is the best for their condition. Not their wallet.
 

Bricoop

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25 years associated with Helicopter EMS - Have never had that done in EMS. Ambulance or Helicopter. Care is for the patient in what is the best for their condition. Not their wallet.
Are there any helicopter insurance companies which will cover a ride from a desert race? A few buddies annually purchase helicopter insurance for their backpacking trips.
 

jon coleman

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its in the fine print of the policy, a lot of ins. does Not cover organised motorsport competition , ive been told..
 

ndvalium

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Are there any helicopter insurance companies which will cover a ride from a desert race? A few buddies annually purchase helicopter insurance for their backpacking trips.
Most for profit services, Air Methods being the largest, has had to adjust their policies for insurance reimbursement and therefore no longer offer individual subscription plans like they used to. Careflight however, is a non profit and still offers a subscription service to their program. They are the air ambulance provider for Vegas to Reno from Goldfield to Finish and are the only air provider in that area for VORRA, or other races in that area. They are different than Careflight in Havasu, Bullhead and Parker which is a air methods company now.
its in the fine print of the policy, a lot of ins. does Not cover organised motorsport competition , ive been told..
This is 100% true. I try and remind everyone they were out riding their bike for recreation when it happened. Competitive events null most personal insurance.
 
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