In case of emergency...

Lcheeney

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you are the one slinging the 3 hour helocopter response time and putting mistruths out, you clearly want to hurt or create drama, because you started these posts. The balls in your court, enough people know me and my background to know I dont have a agenda in these situations. I can say you are a liar and just creating drama.
This is the perfect example of why there is never a full panel debriefing of situations. We can only learn from these things when we open our minds to understand things from all angles. You, whoever you are, are in my prayers.
 

ndvalium

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What was the time of accident? Approximately 1:12pm. What was time of death? Approximately 4:20pm. The bird landed several minutes after a pulse was lost and compressions started. Were on the ground Approximately 20 minutes before they called time if death. Now, you tell me that's not about 3 hours. I realize it had a lot to do with the initial call reporting the wrong race mile as 8 instead of 11.4. Your team did not fail, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying thete is room for improvement on everyone's part. And that does not happen when folks get defensive or when they place blame. Both Nye and Esmerelda dispatch centers seemed to have no clue where Lida junction and Scott's junction were. They also didn't seem to know there was a race. Sounds like there is room for improvement in those agencies and between them and BITD. Racers and race officials need to be better at radio communications. I'm not blaming, I'm thankful for your service. But there is room for improvement going forward for everyone. There needs to be a way to examine what happened and make adjustments. That's all I'm saying.
Lori,

Your timeline among other things is off significantly. First off you are associated with T993 and not 2993. That is kinda important in this situation to remember.

I don’t have an actual time of accident but what I have is a medical alert time stamped placed from the scene by a team and then cancelled. I have another medical alert time stamped 1321 followed by radio traffic from Cory to an incident at mile 8. The closest medical team was at the start and went on course at that time and responded- they reached mile 8 and continued on down the course.

The helicopter was not requested right away as we had zero information on what was going on. That doesn’t change even at the next race. We need viable information to launch a helicopter. On this situation we already had 3 helicopters on responses associated with this event. As helicopters are assigned they come from further away. That will always be the case. If we had one sitting in the start line they would have already been deployed to other incidents.

When requested they had a 38 minute flight time. That is different from a response time and involved pre- flight of the aircraft and fuel. That will regularly add 15-18 minutes when fuel is involved. Weights and balances along with heat and altitude are very challenging and in fact even the weight of Darren was needed prior to launch to determine fuel levels or if they would refuel in transport.

The helicopter arrived in the area at 1440. On first approach they had to abort for redline. The aircraft was at limits of operation. They circled and burned off more fuel and ultimately landed several minutes later. Darrin had gone into Cardiac Arrest during this time. Resuscitation efforts continued for 35 minutes after the helicopter arrived until 1518 at which time they were discontinued under Doctors Orders.

I will agree that agencies from Nye and Esmeralda were confused. Our own BLM units could not locate the incident until I marked the turn off and sent a member of my team to lead them in. That however does not play into the response or situation in anyway. All those agencies responses simply added extra unnecessary resources to the area and deprived them from other incidents.

Our team is out there to reduce the impact on these areas with special trained, equipped and experienced in off road races. Many of the rural responders are not. Some are and often members of our team. We, BITD and Motorsports Safety will be working to make sure agencies don’t send useless resources and teams are educated with who what where why and when to call for what. Calling 911 from the start line got a fire truck and helicopter there. Calling 911 from cottontail had resources headed that way. None of which helped this incident.

feel free to contact me directly if you need to:

David Nehrbass
Motorsports Safety Solutions
BITD Rescue Director
702-278-0895
Racesafely@gmail.com
 

johndjmix

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Being a former firefighter from NY, I can understand the issues communicating between the agency’s. They do need to be (and I’m sure will be) worked out.

On 9/11 the biggest problem faced was communicating with other agency’s on scene. There was so much fire apparatus and man power on scene - well backed up in miles of other fire apparatus, police, and other agency’s. There was very little to no communicating with other departments. Add to that the communications systems that depended on the infrastructure damaged by the situation, and it was a mess.

We lost a lot of good people that day. We did learn a lot from it, as I hope we will all from this incident.

—john
 

Lcheeney

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Lori,

Your timeline among other things is off significantly. First off you are associated with T993 and not 2993. That is kinda important in this situation to remember.

I don’t have an actual time of accident but what I have is a medical alert time stamped placed from the scene by a team and then cancelled. I have another medical alert time stamped 1321 followed by radio traffic from Cory to an incident at mile 8. The closest medical team was at the start and went on course at that time and responded- they reached mile 8 and continued on down the course.

The helicopter was not requested right away as we had zero information on what was going on. That doesn’t change even at the next race. We need viable information to launch a helicopter. On this situation we already had 3 helicopters on responses associated with this event. As helicopters are assigned they come from further away. That will always be the case. If we had one sitting in the start line they would have already been deployed to other incidents.

When requested they had a 38 minute flight time. That is different from a response time and involved pre- flight of the aircraft and fuel. That will regularly add 15-18 minutes when fuel is involved. Weights and balances along with heat and altitude are very challenging and in fact even the weight of Darren was needed prior to launch to determine fuel levels or if they would refuel in transport.

The helicopter arrived in the area at 1440. On first approach they had to abort for redline. The aircraft was at limits of operation. They circled and burned off more fuel and ultimately landed several minutes later. Darrin had gone into Cardiac Arrest during this time. Resuscitation efforts continued for 35 minutes after the helicopter arrived until 1518 at which time they were discontinued under Doctors Orders.

I will agree that agencies from Nye and Esmeralda were confused. Our own BLM units could not locate the incident until I marked the turn off and sent a member of my team to lead them in. That however does not play into the response or situation in anyway. All those agencies responses simply added extra unnecessary resources to the area and deprived them from other incidents.

Our team is out there to reduce the impact on these areas with special trained, equipped and experienced in off road races. Many of the rural responders are not. Some are and often members of our team. We, BITD and Motorsports Safety will be working to make sure agencies don’t send useless resources and teams are educated with who what where why and when to call for what. Calling 911 from the start line got a fire truck and helicopter there. Calling 911 from cottontail had resources headed that way. None of which helped this incident.

feel free to contact me directly if you need to:

David Nehrbass
Motorsports Safety Solutions
BITD Rescue Director
702-278-0895
Racesafely@gmail.com
Dave, you have my respect. I get it.. i'm not blaming you, your team, or BITD. Im glad you guys are out there. I would just like to see a standard protocol to include all involved in debriefing and identifying and implementing ways to improve. I truly believe everyone did the best they could. But that does not mean we can't use this to make improvements.
Another thing I want to clear up. Neither the driver or codriver of T993 were walking on the course. They were at least 30 yards off of it heading back to a manned road crossing until the driver, for whatever reason, decided to cross the track. We can guess, but we will never know why he made that fateful decision. It has been devastating for many. Please, let us all, racers, crews, EMS, BITD, BLM, etc, learn from this in all ways possible. I pray that you and I and everyone else never has to experience something like this again. I also pray that you and your team and all others impacted by this stay safe and are able to recover from this experience.
Best Regards,
Lori
 

MTPyle

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Lori

30 yards is nothing. These guys are racing blind. Would you get 30 yards next to a race course where blind guys are going 100mph? That’s basically what happened. Again 30 yards is nothing. It’s a shame that racers don’t know this.

I think the area of improvements need to be in education for racers. We need to teach these guys to stop when someone is down, stop if you think you hit someone, stay a safe distance from the course but by your race vehicle. Activate Racing trax and trust the system.

this is where I think BITD is struggling. Those things could have avoided this tragedy.

Mike
 

Lcheeney

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Lori

30 yards is nothing. These guys are racing blind. Would you get 30 yards next to a race course where blind guys are going 100mph? That’s basically what happened. Again 30 yards is nothing. It’s a shame that racers don’t know this.

I think the area of improvements need to be in education for racers. We need to teach these guys to stop when someone is down, stop if you think you hit someone, stay a safe distance from the course but by your race vehicle. Activate Racing trax and trust the system.

this is where I think BITD is struggling. Those things could have avoided this tragedy.

Mike
Agreed
 

MTPyle

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I was curious how many yards per second 100mph is. It’s 48 yards per second. At 62mph you go 30 yards per second. Think about that when figuring out how far to be from the blind racers going fast. 1 second isn’t much time.

obviously that’s not side to side but you still get the point. Not sure how to calculate how long it takes to veer off course 30 yards. But it not much time at those speeds.

Mike
 

Bricoop

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I was curious how many yards per second 100mph is. It’s 48 yards per second. At 62mph you go 30 yards per second. Think about that when figuring out how far to be from the blind racers going fast. 1 second isn’t much time.

obviously that’s not side to side but you still get the point. Not sure how to calculate how long it takes to veer off course 30 yards. But it not much time at those speeds.

Mike
Here’s a decent example of someone who knew they were in the wrong spot. Start at 7:45. Notice the urgency. Then working safely to get back up wind.

 

Lcheeney

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I was curious how many yards per second 100mph is. It’s 48 yards per second. At 62mph you go 30 yards per second. Think about that when figuring out how far to be from the blind racers going fast. 1 second isn’t much time.

obviously that’s not side to side but you still get the point. Not sure how to calculate how long it takes to veer off course 30 yards. But it not much time at those speeds.

Mike
Just to be clear. No one veered off course. The accident occurred on the course when the driver attempted to cross.
But I know what you mean about 30 yards being nothing when speeds are high. However, if you had seen the course in this spot you would understand why 30 yards seemed adequate. Im going to argue that it would have been plenty, if only it had remained 30 yards. Everything would have worked out fine if he had not tried to cross. That truly was the cause.
 

Rcamp99

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Here’s a decent example of someone who knew they were in the wrong spot. Start at 7:45. Notice the urgency. Then working safely to get back up wind.

that would be me and my girlfriend. the dust switched directions all day there. I’ve raced long enough to know the siltbeds get to be 1/4 mile wide sometimes when people are avoiding dust.
 

joshmx88

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Just to be clear. No one veered off course. The accident occurred on the course when the driver attempted to cross.
But I know what you mean about 30 yards being nothing when speeds are high. However, if you had seen the course in this spot you would understand why 30 yards seemed adequate. Im going to argue that it would have been plenty, if only it had remained 30 yards. Everything would have worked out fine if he had not tried to cross. That truly was the cause.
When you say the driver attempted to cross.....what do you mean by that?
 

steve0we

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After racing last weekend at the Knolls 250, we realized the ongoing trend in desert racing will continue to be the influx of UTV teams which is great and terrifying at the same time. Every single pit member in our pit last weekend has been racing 10-20 years and has a vast amount of knowledge and experience. Many of the new SXS teams have a much thinner pool of experience to learn from. They have the ability to finance a car, bolt everything on and go. These cars are insanely fast, and the mistakes that happen are incredibly expensive. Costly both in equipment and injury.

Are we setting ourselves up for compete failure as a sport allowing non-qualified people to continue to have horrific accidents based on this strategy? Do drivers and Co-drivers need to show proof of medical insurance? Do we need some form of licensing to move up from stock UTV? Do we need to make fueling violations a 1 years suspension? Competition race insurance is expensive and will continue to get more difficult to purchased based on UTV statistics as time goes on.

Thoughts?
 

jon coleman

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it just roll$ along until Lucerne night race, then its no more.A tier system should be the deal, gotta race a minimum of small local races, pass, get signed off by a rda committee of some sort, then you can race the Premier big races.but, money always trumps safety
 

Rcamp99

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After racing last weekend at the Knolls 250, we realized the ongoing trend in desert racing will continue to be the influx of UTV teams which is great and terrifying at the same time. Every single pit member in our pit last weekend has been racing 10-20 years and has a vast amount of knowledge and experience. Many of the new SXS teams have a much thinner pool of experience to learn from. They have the ability to finance a car, bolt everything on and go. These cars are insanely fast, and the mistakes that happen are incredibly expensive. Costly both in equipment and injury.

Are we setting ourselves up for compete failure as a sport allowing non-qualified people to continue to have horrific accidents based on this strategy? Do drivers and Co-drivers need to show proof of medical insurance? Do we need some form of licensing to move up from stock UTV? Do we need to make fueling violations a 1 years suspension? Competition race insurance is expensive and will continue to get more difficult to purchased based on UTV statistics as time goes on.

Thoughts?
i see plenty of other classes breaking rules also. We need more experienced teams to help educate instead of just stand there and watch. And this is across the board. More education in drivers meetings and more experienced crews helping the newbies out. We are all in this together!!
 

JerryB

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That's been a problem for years and will continue to be a problem. Not just the utv's. "All" classes are regular offenders of doing stupid things, whether due to a new guy with little experience or sheer arrogance. Any asshat who has the money can go buy a TT, or any other car, and pull up to the start line.

Orgs need to go to a tiered system of moving up in classes, season in a 9 car, 5-1600, 10 or utv, and so on, work your way up to a faster class. Unfortunate reality is "this will never happen".
 

dan200

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Out of curiosity, how many reading this post feel like they came into the sport at an "entry level" and then progressed into a faster class? Or did you build or buy the vehicle you wanted and then just jumped into the mix?
 

Rcamp99

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Out of curiosity, how many reading this post feel like they came into the sport at an "entry level" and then progressed into a faster class? Or did you build or buy the vehicle you wanted and then just jumped into the mix?
I started co driving in a 7200, then in a 1-2/1600, then in some faster stuff. We built a sxs to race as a family because it’s semi affordable to race and have some awesome sponsors helping.


I think more people need time helping experienced teams or riding with other drivers and then they can be better prepared. This year, One of my friends helped chase a few races for bigger teams, and made the transition into racing the bigger races himself knowing how the pits etc work. He then taught all the fresh guys he brought in about how it works. Seeing his videos from pits at v2r makes me proud because they are by the book.

While teams that are winning races overall in there class are still not even by the book…. Then have a ”Off-road” celebrity that was chasing with them go on IG and preach about how other teams are being unsafe… meanwhile the team he was helping was fueling without fire suits or a fire extinguisher anywhere in sight just one race before when they won….
 

Fourstroker

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Started in Sportsman after many years racing bikes. Worked our way up to Class 10 and 12 with a few temp stops along the way
 
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