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inspecting eco's

B-Dub 1020

Well-Known Member
#1
I put this here because its up to the class 10 racers IMO and no one else. I talked to few people at Parker this weekend and in the past. It was a story thats all to familiar. eco-tec motors that have total seal rings, different cam grinds from stock. Ported polished heads etc etc. They know who they are and thats not the issue here.This was about other races not this last Parker 425. The issue is that we really need to figure out how promoters can inspect these motors for compression, lift and duration of cams and any head work etc. If cheating is found it needs to be severe like that race car driver ,owner, builder ,fabricator responsible party involved should be out of this class forever.This must be done to deture cheaters. This stock sealed engine is what has revived class 10 and allows many low budget teams to race and will keep entries up and allow fairness. Its a shame that you can do anything you want ANYTHING but modify the engine to a class 10 with the sealed engine and some are willing to do this. What does the majority think we should do and how we go about it. Lets look to the future and not dwell on the past its not impotant. Please just suggest how we can get BITD, SNORE, HDRA and MORE to have the tools to inspect this stuff and implement these banned for life rules. Thanks and many have said this I just am stupid enough to put it in writing here.
 

B-Dub 1020

Well-Known Member
#3
Only problem with that I M O is some are buying new crate engines and others running $800 used. Not fair to claim an engine for less than what a stock new one cost. Many dont have $5000 to claim. If the group is bringing 20-40 class 10's to a race we should be guaranteed by ALL promoters that they will not tolerate sealed stock engine cheaters and randomly check engines for these things no matter where they finish.What would it cost to buy the tools. Maybe we could pay for someone out of entry fees to do this, just a suggestion. I think I made my point for some and class 10 racers lets hear your suggestions. Thanks P-Diddy not a bad idea.
 

M.Harvey1600

Well-Known Member
#4
Only problem with that I M O is some are buying new crate engines and others running $800 used. Not fair to claim an engine for less than what a stock new one cost. Many dont have $5000 to claim. If the group is bringing 20-40 class 10's to a race we should be guaranteed by ALL promoters that they will not tolerate sealed stock engine cheaters and randomly check engines for these things no matter where they finish.What would it cost to buy the tools. Maybe we could pay for someone out of entry fees to do this, just a suggestion. I think I made my point for some and class 10 racers lets hear your suggestions. Thanks P-Diddy not a bad idea.
I posted in the Desert section that we had ran 2 prior junkyard EcoTec motors in #1069. the first engine blew up 2 days before our MORE class 10 championship race so CBR gave us a newly TAGGED Junkyard Eco that we ran for that 1 race. the old engine blewup after 4 races. the 2nd Junkyard engine ran good and got us the championship. But PJ and Eric at ES Motorsports agreed that we should buy a BRAND NEW EcoTec crate motor for this season... Let me tell you there is a HUGE difference between a USED Junkyard engine and a BRAND NEW engine... it had far better torque than the 2 previous engines.

we were pulling speeds that use to take a while to get there in half the time. very happy with the EcoTec. I agree it is not fair to go in and make engine changes. I have been hearing RUMORS of certain builders doing this very thing.
 

Andy4

Well-Known Member
#5
If people are that suspicious then why doesnt anyone use the protest rule that has been around forever?? Are the racers that are potentially cheating winning any races?
 

B-Dub 1020

Well-Known Member
#6
Yes and I wish the ones that seen the head work or cams done would call them out but thats not the point here Andy. No racer wants to be the one that protests.The point here is How do we get organized to make promoters really enforce and show they wont put up with it. Many think they should provide the tools and manpower to inforce the engine rules. Its the only rule in class 10
 

Andy4

Well-Known Member
#7
You can do what Savage does to me. Random teardowns. Isnt it the job of the engine sealer to make sure the engine is legit? Thats why Casey appointed Turn Key for that. He doesnt want to deal with enforcing the sealed engines. So I would say if the racers supsect foul play make the engine sealer aware so he can do his job and investigate it.
 

B-Dub 1020

Well-Known Member
#8
On the seal thing, It needs to be a unbias party teching and especially inspecting these things in engines. Not anyone that seals or does business with a fabricator or builder etc. Thats why some say banned for life if caught. Nip this in the butt and let the potential cheaters know. A dq does not detur some. Example $25 of each entry , thats $750 with 30 cars $500 with 20 at a race to check some engines. Not a bad days pay and the only overhead is the tools you need and transportation to the race for a class 10 engine inspector. This is not a bashing thread as lets not dwell on the past but handle the future to make it fair for all. Toyota, Honda and VW racers as well.
 

Andy4

Well-Known Member
#9
So SCORE is the only one doing this right. Now we go full circle again with all the organizers need to get on the same page with engine rules and enforment. This is a HUGE flaw in the sealed engine route and only allowing 1 engine.
 

craigincali

Well-Known Member
#10
IMO you are totally over reacting. Why would we want promoters to check engines that are sealed? It is the enigine sealer that should be accountable for this. Once the engine is sealed there should not be any reason for a tear down (in a perfect world). What is with this "banned for life" thing, really? Way off base on that one, suspensions, points taken away are fine but, banned for life give me a break.
 

B-Dub 1020

Well-Known Member
#11
If promoters cant even enforce one sealed engine why would you have more types. Yes banned for life. You cheat get the F out and stay in an unlimited class. Most everyone is and will play fair in this stepping stone class to unlimited. The ones that dont should have major consequences period. Zero tolerance!! We racers need to enforce this with hiring an outside party through the promoter to randomly inspect engines.This should not be done by builders and fabricators that when their product wins they sell more. Simple lift and duration test if possible, compression test (within specs of stock) and look inside the head for porting or polishing work would be a start for eco's and just cc the vw , honda and toyota's. I agree this is BS but we need to get these rules enforced. Oh craig I have heard several stories of tags being put back on by other parties than the sealer. If you have nothing to hide why would you be against this. Protest will be coming in the future I have a feeling and can the promoters check engines , do they have the tools and what will be the penalties.
 

SicRic

Well-Known Member
#12
I again, agree with u Bill. If u are not cheating then u have nothing to worry about.
If u cheat u should be banned for the entire season.
I think it should be upto the promoter to train their tech guys on how to measure compression, etc. And the engine builder (sealed) along with the racer should be held accountable
 

craigincali

Well-Known Member
#14
So why have the engines sealed I'm the first place? Why would I pay $250.00 dollars just to have some promoter rip my tag off and make me spend another $250 bucks to get it tagged again???
 

B-Dub 1020

Well-Known Member
#20
Point taken , everyone just protest and hope or pray someone has the tools so they can catch these things.Oh and who would check these things after a race if not the promoter. Class 10 has no one like trophy lite does and the cheaters know this. No biggie the engine everyone talking about only won 1 race I heard.
 
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