Interest in Possible SCORE Baja 1000 Vinatge Event

[burro8]

To All Vintage,

Unfortunately like some others in the Vintage off road world, I will not be able to participate in the Great NORRA event in April. I did the event in 2010 and had a blast! Have always wanted to come back down but for one reason or another have not been able to. I really wanted to participate in the 50th event but unfortunately can't make it down in April : (

That got me thinking about SCORE in November and would they possibly have some type of event for the Vintage folks at the SCORE event.

I contacted them a couple months ago and they said they would look into it. I provided some info they had asked for.

Had seen anything on their website or heard back from them so I sent a email to them this morning. They are still looking into it. I through out the idea of a exhibit at Tech, a 250-500 mile run down part of the course and etc.

Christine Wait at SCORE would like to here from any possible interested vintage owners of all types. Please contact her by phone or email and provide her with your interest and ideas.
1 (702) 407-3059
christine@score-international.com

Some Vintage owners may be interested in doing NORRA & a possible SCORE event.

Thank you,
Steve

 

[TRAVISD]

Christine called me this morning after I sent an email last week about the same thing. She basically said they are looking into it and researching all the rules from BITD and NORRA for classes and such. I expressed my interest in running the whole 1300 miles to LaPaz, and with that she was asking about my truck if it was a past racer and could keep the average speed.

She has had some interest in a vintage class, however not much interest in people racing the whole 1000. If you are interested or even kicking around the idea, call or email her and lets get this ball rolling.

Like I said, I am interested in going the distance for the 50th.

 

[LantanaTX]

I spoke to Christine and told her we would be interested if we were allowed to run the whole race. She asked me if we could keep up and I asked if they still allow Class 11 to race which we are much faster than. I think the stickiest issues might be vehicles not complying with SCORE current rules. Maybe we will run both 50th anniversary races this year! I wonder how their tech director will like my outboard Harmon fuel cells? I hope this happens and that the lawyers don't kill it.

 

[Bro_Gill]

There has been a grandfather clause in the rules about previous SCORE racers, do't see why it should not apply to any previous desert racer. The cars were legal when they raced and there were few deaths and deadly crashes back then, I believe. As to speeds, any old 1,2, 10 or 1600 race car can easily run a better pace than the 5-1600 cars today and probably faster than the 5s. I find it interesting that they are worried about the minimum speed. Has it really changed? Sal kept the 25mph minimum and I think for the most part it still applies. Many of the 'old' race cars that have been restored lately easily maintained 40-50mph averages back then and should be able to do it today.

 

[LantanaTX]

We will enter two vehicles if they do this, a Chenowth 1000 and the quarter elliptic class 8 truck. If anyone hears anything, let us know.

 

[Bro_Gill]

We will enter two vehicles if they do this, a Chenowth 1000 and the quarter elliptic class 8 truck. If anyone hears anything, let us know.

I believe they are working on it, Bob. I have heard some rumors.

 

[burro8]

Please contact Christine at SCORE. Contact info is in the original post.

Thanks

 

[retroblazer]

There has been a grandfather clause in the rules about previous SCORE racers, do't see why it should not apply to any previous desert racer. The cars were legal when they raced and there were few deaths and deadly crashes back then, I believe. As to speeds, any old 1,2, 10 or 1600 race car can easily run a better pace than the 5-1600 cars today and probably faster than the 5s. I find it interesting that they are worried about the minimum speed. Has it really changed? Sal kept the 25mph minimum and I think for the most part it still applies. Many of the 'old' race cars that have been restored lately easily maintained 40-50mph averages back then and should be able to do it today.

Today's race courses are, on average, much rougher today than they were even ten years ago. With forty TT's , plus almost the same number of 1's, by the time the limited cars run the course is really chewed up. You don't need many delays before you start worrying about a 25mph average.

 

[LantanaTX]

Today's race courses are, on average, much rougher today than they were even ten years ago. With forty TT's , plus almost the same number of 1's, by the time the limited cars run the course is really chewed up. You don't need many delays before you start worrying about a 25mph average.

Yes it will chewed up but we are still faster than class 11 and 5/1600. I would expect a pace similar to the 1/2 1600.


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[bajaxp]

Most 11's and 5/1600's time out in the 500 and 1000 now.

 

[LantanaTX]

Most 11's and 5/1600's time out in the 500 and 1000 now.

We're not gauging our speed based on those two classes. I only mentioned them because Score was worried we couldn't do minimum speed and I pointed out they still let the 11 cars race! And we are much faster than they are. They really need to show the vintage class more respect. At last years mint they started vintage behind class 11. Peter Alesi in a Funco similar to ours passed all the 11 cars in the first 8 miles. I wonder how far out he would be in 1300 miles?

How do 12 cars do? We run a class 12 engine in what would would a 12 car if we used bypass shocks. I spoke to Christine again today and she seems much more positive than she did at the beginning of the week. If you would commit, she would love to hear from you.

Just to be clear, we intend to run the Chenowth and not the Funco at the Baja 1000. The Chenowth has much more travel but still legal for 82 and older.


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[bajaxp]

Whoa...decaf; I only mentioned it as a reality. I have been racing Pro UTV in SCORE since the beginning so I know the speeds and cut off times. Education is key...

 

[LantanaTX]

Whoa...decaf; I only mentioned it as a reality. I have been racing Pro UTV in SCORE since the beginning so I know the speeds and cut off times. Education is key...

Sorry if it seemed I Was reacting to your post negatively. I wasn't at all. I just thought it was funny that Score thought we might be slower than class 11 and apparently BITD is sure we are slower. It will be interesting to see where they starry them next week at the Mint.


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[Bro_Gill]

No, I think every Baja race in the last 5 years has had a finisher or more in 5/1600. Many times, the 5/1600s beat the 5s. Just like the 1600s regularly beat the 12s and sometimes the 10s. We are talking about cars that averaged between 40 and 55 mph when they were state of the art. They won't be that much slower toady, many buggies are still on 33" rear tires and running less hp than many of the vintage cars will be.

 

[burro8]

No, I think every Baja race in the last 5 years has had a finisher or more in 5/1600. Many times, the 5/1600s beat the 5s. Just like the 1600s regularly beat the 12s and sometimes the 10s. We are talking about cars that averaged between 40 and 55 mph when they were state of the art. They won't be that much slower toady, many buggies are still on 33" rear tires and running less hp than many of the vintage cars will be.

When I spoke with Christine we discussed possibly having a shorter route for the vintage participates, that way if some did not want to beat their cars up over 1300 miles or be worried about timing out. Possible option.

 

[Retro Francis]

My 2 cents,, I have spoken to Christine about this and I also spoke to Roger Norman at the Lucas Offroad Expo.
Something Major to think about... I was told that the Baja 500 and 1000 have a finishing rate of around 30 -35 % with modern race cars. I am not saying that our cars can not finish,because at BITD races we have more that a 60% finish rate. But with that said. I have about 50k in each one of my 3 cars. 2 of which are Historical un replaceable cars. Also I have raced a lot of SCORE races down south from 77-91. These are a lot of the courses that have been run on since the 70s. Add to that that the Vintage class would be starting at the rear of the field and the course will be a real hand full for even the best vintage cars and most of the race would be run in the dark. Also the Grandfather claus may not cover all vintage cars. There could be Insurance issues. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good Idea. I just want everyone to also see some of the cons.
I hope they can pull it off, I hope the entry fee is not the 3k+ that has been thrown around,as that would bring the total cost of going to the tip to approx. 10k. and I really hope they can find a way around the currant rule book and the (imo) stupid $250.00 Tech fee per car. No way do I want this to sound Negative as I do not mean it to be. I know just how hard it is to get a Vintage class put together. And this is not to start any kind of argument.

 

[LantanaTX]

My 2 cents,, I have spoken to Christine about this and I also spoke to Roger Norman at the Lucas Offroad Expo.
Something Major to think about... I was told that the Baja 500 and 1000 have a finishing rate of around 30 -35 % with modern race cars. I am not saying that our cars can not finish,because at BITD races we have more that a 60% finish rate. But with that said. I have about 50k in each one of my 3 cars. 2 of which are Historical un replaceable cars. Also I have raced a lot of SCORE races down south from 77-91. These are a lot of the courses that have been run on since the 70s. Add to that that the Vintage class would be starting at the rear of the field and the course will be a real hand full for even the best vintage cars and most of the race would be run in the dark. Also the Grandfather claus may not cover all vintage cars. There could be Insurance issues. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good Idea. I just want everyone to also see some of the cons.
I hope they can pull it off, I hope the entry fee is not the 3k+ that has been thrown around,as that would bring the total cost of going to the tip to approx. 10k. and I really hope they can find a way around the currant rule book and the (imo) stupid $250.00 Tech fee per car. No way do I want this to sound Negative as I do not mean it to be. I know just how hard it is to get a Vintage class put together. And this is not to start any kind of argument.

"Baja is not for wusses", Sal Fish. I know about a dozen racers have committed, including us. We would run our Chenowth which is basically a 1600 car with twice the power.


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[TRAVISD]

I know I would be in if this went forward. I am pretty sure i could out run a few classes with my truck.

 

[Rory]

My 2 cents,, I have spoken to Christine about this and I also spoke to Roger Norman at the Lucas Offroad Expo.
Something Major to think about... I was told that the Baja 500 and 1000 have a finishing rate of around 30 -35 % with modern race cars. I am not saying that our cars can not finish,because at BITD races we have more that a 60% finish rate. But with that said. I have about 50k in each one of my 3 cars. 2 of which are Historical un replaceable cars. Also I have raced a lot of SCORE races down south from 77-91. These are a lot of the courses that have been run on since the 70s. Add to that that the Vintage class would be starting at the rear of the field and the course will be a real hand full for even the best vintage cars and most of the race would be run in the dark. Also the Grandfather claus may not cover all vintage cars. There could be Insurance issues. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good Idea. I just want everyone to also see some of the cons.
I hope they can pull it off, I hope the entry fee is not the 3k+ that has been thrown around,as that would bring the total cost of going to the tip to approx. 10k. and I really hope they can find a way around the currant rule book and the (imo) stupid $250.00 Tech fee per car. No way do I want this to sound Negative as I do not mean it to be. I know just how hard it is to get a Vintage class put together. And this is not to start any kind of argument.

Norm makes some very good points here. I also think Norm is looking more at the older Vintage race cars (mid 70's and earlier type cars) than the cars that were built in the early 80's and later. The Baja 1000 is a different animal than the NORRA Mexican 1000. NORRA was made for the Vintage cars because they want to help preserve them and not tear them up. The Baja 1000 will beat you, and your vintage race car, no question. Now, if I owned the DirTrix, I wouldn't hesitate on entering the Baja 1000 in the Vintage class because that car really isn't that far off from a more modern car. A Funco SS1 on the other hand would be a different story.

SCORE is talking about trying to make it more Vintage friendly by cutting out some of the rougher sections and the big silt beds south of Insurgentes which would make it a lot easier on the Vintage AND class 11 cars. Like I said, Kudos for SCORE for looking into trying to include the Vintage cars at the Baja 1000, it will be interesting to see what they can come up with.

 

[Retro Francis]

"Baja is not for wusses", Sal Fish. I know about a dozen racers have committed, including us. We would run our Chenowth which is basically a 1600 car with twice the power.


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Just remember Bob, the 1000 isn't NORRA, you can't put your car on the trailer for the day... LOL...