Interesting Finish at Blue Water

racer_dude

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Strictly here to get the cats to heard and the cows to buck......



Class 1's account for 5 out of the top 10 finishers at Blue Water. Harley Letner bringing home the "W" and 4th place overall about 10 minutes off Voss' pace whom had a 6+- minute margin of victory over the next TT. Immediately followed by Parkhouse, Thompson and Baily.


Did anyone die in the process of the final race? It seems to me that there are some TT drivers that are in fear of the cute little dune bug's lives, and that mixing the two (as we have done since, well TT's were just class ones back in the day) would be the end of desert racing as we know it. Period. (over exaggerated on purpose).


There are back markers in every class, including you country clubbers. I don't see the reason to compare the apples to oranges, and since everything seemed to go "ok" this weekend, please don't sit on your high horses and play the role of the sniper on the hill. According to a few gentlemen on here, whom didn't finish.... It is a very bad idea to play "nicely" together as TT's are far superior and will crush a 1 car by just looking at it wrong, endangering the occupants inside.

To us normal folk, it seems like you guys want to take your ball and go home to play by yourselves. Which may be your target, but its going to be tough to have 25 guys pay for your own race series. Permits and insurance are getting expensive these days.





Ready.... GO!
 

OldStroppeTeam

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We cleared out a 6 car pile-up at about RM11 that included both types of vehicles. NO ONE in that mess appeared to have any advantage over the other, They were all STUCK !
 

mgobaja

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Strictly here to get the cats to heard and the cows to buck......



To us normal folk, it seems like you guys want to take your ball and go home to play by yourselves. Which may be your target, but its going to be tough to have 25 guys pay for your own race series. Permits and insurance are getting expensive these days.





Ready.... GO!
Back when Trophy Truck 1st came around, they did race their own races, they raced on Fridays at select events, and also had a mandated pit stop that was filmed for TV. I think it was one of the LVDC cars that had a sticker " real racers racer on Saturdays "
 

PAB

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Kook statement in my opinion

It's about safety. Many of the 1 car guys agree 100% and most all TT's are on the same page.
 

racer_dude

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Kook statement in my opinion

It's about safety. Many of the 1 car guys agree 100% and most all TT's are on the same page.

I know it was a kook statement, just like the kook fact that many of the TT's think that they are untouchable and everyone should bow down.

At the end of the day, I treat 9 car guys who paid to race the same as I would a TT guy on course. Your life is not worth a trophy. Race accordingly


Kook out ;)
 

frozenh2o

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The handlebar classes have been dropped for next year to make way for separate TT and C1 races.
 

PAB

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I know it was a kook statement, just like the kook fact that many of the TT's think that they are untouchable and everyone should bow down.

At the end of the day, I treat 9 car guys who paid to race the same as I would a TT guy on course. Your life is not worth a trophy. Race accordingly


Kook out ;)
I treat everyone the same....I don't give a sheet what anyone drives.

Accidents can happen
 

McCredie A

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I don't have a dog in the fight. But don't most say that this is a sandy course? I believe class 1 would have an advantage in the sand due the HP to weight ratio. Do you think the results will be similar for the Parker 425?
 

racer_dude

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I treat everyone the same....I don't give a sheet what anyone drives.

Accidents can happen
Not arguing that fact at all.

I'm just arguing the fact of what you're considering grounds for safety.

I have heard reasons due to weight come up quite a bit. And the rebuttal to that is the fact that most of the big name 1 cars are now 2", the same as your TT.

A TT that is under control, can safely and quickly touch a 1 car rear bumper if need be and not leave a mark. And a 1 car that is out of control, can effectively leave a mark on a TT.

Dust maybe? That buggy can go just as fast thru the dust as a TT can. Now let's bring the "in control" factor back into play. Worse case scenario, a TT is making dust and a 1 car follows, followed by a TT. Common sense says the TT in 3rd should be the slowest due to being the most visibly impaired, then the 1 car being about the same speed +- 5mph.

In order for the TT to cause reckless damage and harm to the 1 car (or other TT) it would need to be driving way above its head and more than likely slightly out of control. I know this is desert racing, and driving they the dust is part of the deal. But the age old saying, driving off your GPS is getting to be common place.

Blue Water is a great race and provides lots of passing areas. Mixing two "like" classes was not as a dire situation as some made it out to be.

My topic was intended to stir the pot and get some juices flowing. Goal accomplished

I don't have a dog in the fight. But don't most say that this is a sandy course? I believe class 1 would have an advantage in the sand due the HP to weight ratio. Do you think the results will be similar for the Parker 425?
Yes, very sandy but by Sunday the jokes favor the TT's

Parker 425 let's both the trucks and bugggys have their areas of expertise and stretch their legs a bit. Class 1's can top 5 OA
 

deano

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Not arguing that fact at all.

I'm just arguing the fact of what you're considering grounds for safety.

I have heard reasons due to weight come up quite a bit. And the rebuttal to that is the fact that most of the big name 1 cars are now 2", the same as your TT.

A TT that is under control, can safely and quickly touch a 1 car rear bumper if need be and not leave a mark. And a 1 car that is out of control, can effectively leave a mark on a TT.

Dust maybe? That buggy can go just as fast thru the dust as a TT can. Now let's bring the "in control" factor back into play. Worse case scenario, a TT is making dust and a 1 car follows, followed by a TT. Common sense says the TT in 3rd should be the slowest due to being the most visibly impaired, then the 1 car being about the same speed +- 5mph.

In order for the TT to cause reckless damage and harm to the 1 car (or other TT) it would need to be driving way above its head and more than likely slightly out of control. I know this is desert racing, and driving they the dust is part of the deal. But the age old saying, driving off your GPS is getting to be common place.

Blue Water is a great race and provides lots of passing areas. Mixing two "like" classes was not as a dire situation as some made it out to be.

My topic was intended to stir the pot and get some juices flowing. Goal accomplished



Yes, very sandy but by Sunday the jokes favor the TT's

Parker 425 let's both the trucks and bugggys have their areas of expertise and stretch their legs a bit. Class 1's can top 5 OA
How could you say you're "not arguing the fact", then in the next sentence you say "I'm just arguing the fact" -- This whole thread is as reckless as your "stir the pot" intention - Off-roading as a whole does not need any more negativity, how about just keep it positive so we all could keep enjoy it ...
 

ACME

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Good, relevant thread for the sport, classes, promoters and sponsors involved in both classes as well as the other classes.

The pot needs to get stirred occasionally or it'll go stagnant and besides, only a few CC'rs and minions seem to get tweaked anyway. What else is there to talk about other than more spec classes and the next promo that the media will run. What if it was stated/asked this way:

"Would the "Off Road Culture" be better off if TT's had their own sandbox to play in?!?!".
 

Jorge Rodriguez

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He quoted what he was not arguing and he said, "I'm not arguing THAT fact." He then went onto stating what fact he IS arguing.

Also, why does everyone always demand for things to stay positive? Why can't someone voice their opinion or dislike for someone's point of view in a respectable manner and have an adult discussion about it?

Why is everyone always so afraid to insult someone?
 

racer_dude

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How could you say you're "not arguing the fact", then in the next sentence you say "I'm just arguing the fact" -- This whole thread is as reckless as your "stir the pot" intention - Off-roading as a whole does not need any more negativity, how about just keep it positive so we all could keep enjoy it ...
See @Jorge Rodriguez comment Deano,




What is reckless is TT guys saying that for our safety (class 1's) that WE need to be off of their ball field while they play.


I am all for safety, but give the people a reason that the TT guys feel that it is unsafe for the unlimited cars to play together. 99% of the time, the argument can lead back on the TT guy causing the unsafe conditions behind the wheel of their truck, not the 1 car holding his/ her line (or not sometimes, I understand). I can bet that most "contact accidents" (nerf) are actually caused from frustrated drivers in dust and adrenaline gets the best of their intentions, literally nothing to do with class.

The most notable, recent accident that I can think of did involve a TT on 1 car. Had nothing to do with class difference, but an "accident" that could have happened to TT on TT just as easily. I do believe that the injuries sustained would have been similar unfortunately if it was TT on TT, but that is just speculation on my part.


I have heard the gamut of arguments on why they shouldn't be mixed, most of which are fallacies and emotions that are thought to be facts. I'm just looking for something concrete is all, and starting talk that could lead to an intellectual debate instead of threads about what type of Knife you carry, or what type of steering wheel do you use.
 

NIKAL

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I do agree with PAB and others that having TT's and class 1's for that matter on a course with slower, lighter class vehicles is not safe. Even if the class weights are comparable, the rate of speed and impact can make that same sized & weight vehicle feel like 10,000 lbs of force crushing your slower car if hit.

So while I agree with the safety issues, I also think that when a TT or Class 1 car brake down or have enough down time to be mixed back in the field with these other slower class's, that those TT or class 1 teams should be told to park it and take the DNF. Cause you cant have it both ways!

If its not safe to be on the course at the same time with slower vehicles, then those faster more elite TT & class1 classes need to accept that even at 60% speed or after being down for repairs and back to 100% and trying to make up time, they are a safety danger to the rest of the classes that are racing competitively for a win or points position and having them on the same course is not safe.

How many TT & class 1 racers would be willing to accept that?
 

Tgraf

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I know it was a kook statement, just like the kook fact that many of the TT's think that they are untouchable and everyone should bow down.

At the end of the day, I treat 9 car guys who paid to race the same as I would a TT guy on course. Your life is not worth a trophy. Race accordingly


Kook out ;)
Not sure which TT drivers think everyone should bow down? I would not associate with a TT driver that I thought had this attitude. There are some egos in racing but I don't think that is limited to the TT class.
 

racer_dude

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Not sure which TT drivers think everyone should bow down? I would not associate with a TT driver that I thought had this attitude. There are some egos in racing but I don't think that is limited to the TT class.

Tracy, you are effectively not one of those TT guys. I also know that you and Curtis race like true gentlemen
 

racer_dude

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I do agree with PAB and others that having TT's and class 1's for that matter on a course with slower, lighter class vehicles is not safe. Even if the class weights are comparable, the rate of speed and impact can make that same sized & weight vehicle feel like 10,000 lbs of force crushing your slower car if hit.

So while I agree with the safety issues, I also think that when a TT or Class 1 car brake down or have enough down time to be mixed back in the field with these other slower class's, that those TT or class 1 teams should be told to park it and take the DNF. Cause you cant have it both ways!

If its not safe to be on the course at the same time with slower vehicles, then those faster more elite TT & class1 classes need to accept that even at 60% speed or after being down for repairs and back to 100% and trying to make up time, they are a safety danger to the rest of the classes that are racing competitively for a win or points position and having them on the same course is not safe.

How many TT & class 1 racers would be willing to accept that?

I agree, a TT and a 3000 car have no business playing tag on a short course, or multiple lap 100 mile loop race

Baja 1000, if your TT, or class 1 tags a "limited" class car that effectively finishes 10+ hours behind the overall leader with a perfect race? should be grounds for a year ban from the organization. This is a higher safety priority than two 800hp unlimited cars mixing it up and a TT driver complaining that a 1 car was the reason that his dust was the reason he couldn't win. (Again, a little less serious in my tone)
 

PAB

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Not sure which TT drivers think everyone should bow down? I would not associate with a TT driver that I thought had this attitude. There are some egos in racing but I don't think that is limited to the TT class.
But what do you think about mixing 1s and TTs...now that you have jumped in. Is it safe? Is it a good idea?

Love ya but now we just have to know! Yeiiiiiiiii
 

bajadreamer

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The new tracking system that SCORE is about to use appears that it would solve a ton of issues.. I think I read that it has a warning if another vehicle is approaching or something like that... then it's up to the driver to be a gentleman and the slower vehicles to GTFOTW! .. seems like people not moving over is a lot of the problem

I think it's at least a step in the right direction ,technology is getting better.. is it the answer? Maybe... I'm nobody have a great day everyone :)


Sent from the RDC Mobile App. Get it for your IOS device today
 

deano

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I do respect everyone's insight and opinions and have for many years on this forum (and I do see the "that" and the "the" difference now that I read Louis' post again). But I do have a couple of questions for the Class 1 guys .. I'm sure everyone has seen the Parker video of the dicing and hard banging between the Sourapas and Voss TT's -- How do you think a C1 car would of held up in that dice with one of those trucks, who do you think would of received the short end of the stick and who's personal safety most likely would of been in danger ? I think I know the answers ......
 
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