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It's Not Easy Being Green

dezertchick

Well-Known Member
It\'s Not Easy Being Green

POSTED FOR NORM LENHART:

It’s Not Easy Being Green

No, its not easy being green, but its even harder when
you try your damnedest to do something good for both
the sport of off-road racing, “and the environment”,
but you don’t get a whole lot of help. Oh, after 6 ½
years of fighting with Eco-nuts over land use issues
back when I was the Editor at Off-Road.com, I know
just how frustrating it can be.

Blowing my own horn? Well, call it what you will – I
could care less. I’m not trying to make you my
friends. I got just enough of those to matter to me,
and I could care less what the rest think.

Here’s the FACTS folks.

FACT! – A year ago, Sheryl, Ann, Paige, Danni, and a
few other people “threw” together a massive clean up
effort in a "very" short time. The results exceeded
everyone’s expectations. Over the next year, they
busted tail at every event, every race, every place
they could to get as many racers, fans and off-roaders
as possible to come out to that little chunk of Heaven
called Barstow and clean up an area that all of us use
and / or

PROFIT FROM!!!….

….In the sport of recreational off-road and off-road
racing

FACT! – Despite a few million dollars worth of race
trucks and buggies using the desert every race,
despite desert races being the “social event” and
meeting place for 99.9% of us, Despite the fact that
tens of thousands of fans, crews and racers come out
to the desert for it all, despite the fact that CORDR
and its members have been pushing hard all this time
to build participation……..

FACT! Less than 200 people bothered to get involved.

And don’t even get me started about the sponsors.
Well, OK, since I got nothing like my job at ORC to
lose right now, why not?

Question – how many “Contingency Row” vendors showed
up?
Question – How many Magazines and websites showed up
to cover it?

Race Dezert was there. Hell, even Go-Desert was there.
Where were the rest who purport to “support off-road
racing? Not one major publication showed up. Not one.

But I'm sure they'll "buy" the coverage somewhere.
they always do.

Where the hell were the Big off-road clubs like
Checkers and Inland Prerunners?

Blake Monk came down from Vegas with $100 for the
taking, but most clubs are so rich and otherwise
occupied, they couldn’t be bothered.

Question – Why did Ann, Sheryl, Paige, Danni and Tony
have to just about “beg” a lot of vendors to get a few
trinkets out of them for give-away raffle prizes? Much
less real motivators?

why did most of them turn them down?

There’s a list of sponsors who helped out. Some
greatly, others a little, others still couldn’t cough
up 1/10,000th of what they make in a week worth of
sales. But they’ll ALL be right back at contingency,
whether they helped out or not; and advertising their
stuff in magazines for $5,000 a month. $100 cash was a
10 phone call ordeal to get from some companies to
support the continued existence of their sport – the
one that pays their bills to the tune of millions of
dollars a year.

Now I know that out of those 10,000 plus desert users
who regularly come to Barstow for their kicks, 9,800
had something better to do. Granted, some had real
insightful excuses like being fall down sick, or having to
work and not being able to get the time off after
requesting it (since they knew the clean up was
coming., but most people had real good reasons for not
coming.

Some people, knowing full well the dates of the clean
up, scheduled off-road events on the same day.

Some people couldn’t find a date for the Slash X
after.

Some poor souls didn’t want to miss NASCAR re-runs.

And god knows, some teams, racers and crews, couldn’t
spare a single guy from the shop for a few hours with
the Baja 1000 so close at hand.

I realize the importance of these things. </sarcasm>

But where are these people when there’s a DAC meeting?
Tony and I didn’t see any in Ridgecrest. We saw
rockcrawlers and duners, but no desert rats or racers.

Who was there backing me up when I asked the Center
for Biological Diversity’s Daniel Patterson and the
author of “Off-Road to ruin” what there lawsuits would
do when a few thousand pissed off off-roaders ignored
them and drove roughshod over their “closed” roads,
areas and trails?

Besides a hand full of us that have fought for years
(some for decades), how many people even care?

Rockcrawlers woke up and smeeld the closure. So did
duners. 99% of desert rats don't give a damn, and
thats the reality. If they did, those of us doing
something positive would have a LOT more help. But we
don't.

Thats the cold hard truth.

I’ll say it here and now. About 50 tops. The rest use
the desert for an adreneline rush, a party spot, and a
place to get laid. Once it’s gone, they’ll just go
somewhere else.

But lets all just keep right on supporting the teams
that don’t help out in cleanups or land use meetings.
Same for the vendors. Let them all get rich off us and
retire to Baja when the USA finially becomes a “NO
OHV” zone.

After all, everything else is more important isn’t it?


__________________________________________________
 

desertratt

Well-Known Member
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

damn do i feel guilty for not going now. my hats off to those who did go and made a difference. you are the ones who deserve the desert. for those of use who had some lame excuse for not going shame on use all. we will be sorry when we can't go barstow , lucerne or any of the other places in the desert we enjoy using and getting out of the city.

get on the gas or get out of my way!!
 

jimpat

Well-Known Member
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

well said.......
there is a solution.....
we know who the vendors and press that showed up are, none, beside Klaus and the other deZert people !!
so now we also know where to buy the items we need!!!!! not from the no show vendors, De Nunzio sells most everything we need, so from now on that's where i'll shop and I want him to know that i appreciate the 100$
merchandise coupon i won at the raffle.
Donahoe has good inventory and a classy fabricating shop, he can build most anything needed, why go else where?
So lets have the list of donors and helpers available on this site and lets push business their way, Kreg and Paige donated money and time, lets support them.
Now is the time to show the no-shows that we count, and when they feel it in the pocket book, is when they will wake up or go broke, and with the economy going to the pits, every sale counts.
thanks for listening
jim patelli



when everything is under control, you are going to slow!!!!!
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

Donahoe Racing Enterprises
Desert Tool
Fabtech
MD Racing
Dusty Times
A.R.T.S.
BLM
Slash X Cafe
Off-Road Expo
McKenzies
Jim Price Racing
JE Pistons
Tom Willis
Miller and Cannon CPA
Tony Barazza
Ntense Tees
Terrible Herbst
Hunter-Kennedy and Assoc
Hernquist and Assoc
Camco Fab
Deaver Springs
Sway-A-Way
Desert Disposal
Telcom/Motion Tire
Rexel/Calcon
JG transwerks
BITD Racing
Race-Dezert
Go-Desert
Riverinfo.com
Sign Pros
T & J's off-road center
Racers Only
Cycle Parts West
11 Brothers Racing
Terrie Tavis
Haul Ass Racewear
Ford of Orange
Maynards Cars and Trucks
DeNunzio
Fastline Films


Kris


When in doubt, GAS IT!
 

Donahoe

Well-Known Member
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

Norm, (Ann) I think you guys are missing the point... (not that you didnt bring up some great ones in your post). Overall yes it would have been Great to see the off-road Racing community Rally behind the clean up and have a HUGE AMOUNT of people out there.... BUT The Fact of the Matter is that 160 people Showed up and got trash bags and walked across Stoddard Vally and picked up trash. That is 160 more people then if we had never put on the Clean up... THats 160 people who DO Care And 37 sponsor who all Gave money and Gifts to the Cause... Dont be a cup is half empty person... Everyone with C.O.R.D.R. should be Proud of what they pulled off.. It was bigger then last year and it will be bigger next year...But the key to getting more people out there is not to GUILT them into comming out...THe people that did come out Had a GREAT Time... THATS right FOLKS... IT was Actually Fun... Hard to belive but when you see a bunch of people driving walking and riding across the desert with trash bags and refrigerators in tow it is a awsome sight.. Makes you feel like you are doing something Positive... And you get a feeling of Family.... BUT TO Bitch that Not enough Family showed up is Silly. We got the Job Done.. We filled all the dumsters we had and did a nonstop Convoy to the dump. Yeah it would be great to have every racer ,fan and company out there helping but we still would have filled three dumpsters and took trips to the dump. So I guess what I'm saying is We did Pull off ALOT...And lots of people showed up and had a great... Get over it... It will Grow and we will continue to do it even if 40 people show up.

NEVER LIFT!!!!!
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

Kreg, you're 100% right in that you made a difference, and that iven if 40 showed up it was a success.

But you are missing the point. We're friends and I don't want you to take my words the wrong way, the reality of the situation is that every day Patterson or some other Center for biodiversity jackass is out there filing one lawsuit after or another and has 4000 peoplle behind them willing to step up, send cash, call their congressman, fax the BLM director, go to schools and "educate" the kids about our "fragile" environment", stage sit ins, go to DAC, BLM, land use, city, town, county meetings and about a thousand other ways to lock down the public lands we recreate on .

We don't You, me, Paige, Ann, sheryl, and a few others in the desert racing community even bother to keep up on what's going on, much less do something positive for our sport. No, not everyone will or even should get involved. People do have other priorities. But out of the tens of thousands of us actively involved in this sport, I would think that more than 200 people could have come out. I know that it was pure politics and personal differences that led to Inland Prerunners "leadership" scheduling their event on the same day as ODC2 because I sat there and listened to Jen talk about how they would definately be at the cleanup on more than one ocaision. As for the checkers, God only knows why they didn't come.

No, no one should be "forced" to do something they don't want to, but we have a very simple choice here. The time for PC, touchy feely hand holding in the off-road community is over. Most of us don't have the faintest clue just how close the sport is to being eradicated in california. And for those who think I'm full of BS, I say this...How would you know? When was the last time you talked to a BLM ranger or attended a DAC or other land use meeting? When was the last time you bothered to find out when votes on land use issues were coming up in congress?

The reality is that outside that hand full of us, NO ONE KNOWS. Worse yet, outside that handfull of us, NO ONE CARES enough to get involved either

FACT! if they did, they would take 10 min to email lettersonce in a while
Fact, if they did, they would attend meetings once in a while.
FACT! If they did, they would MAKE THE TIME one day a year to go to ODC or some other clean up effort.
FACT! if they did, they would understand that freedom isn't free. Freedom like using public lands REQUIRES their help to keep it public. To keep it open. But unfortunately, people are so worried about offending others that no one wants to tell it like it is.

Rick Sieman once faced a full blown federal trial that cost him PERSONALLY over $250,000 of his own money to fight. He had a handfull of people behind him and that was it. Most of the industry with notable exceptions like JT Racing and Works Performance wouldn't get anywhere near him, much less help him.

In the aftermath, California got the desert protection act and daily land closures. If people would have rallied to his cause then, we could have avoided the situation of today.

Today, only 200 people or so can even bother to attend a clean up that gives out free beer! What do you think the chances are that the rest will go to the wall for their sport are when they announce that Stoddard Valley OHV area will be closed as "mitigation" for the Ft Irwin expansion?

Answer ? The same hand full of us that do anything now. No more, no less.

Kreg, I love you like a brother, and Paige, like a sister, but you gotta understand the realities here. George bush said the other countries are either with us or with the terrorists. Likewise, desert people are either willing to support the sport, and that means giving of their resources and time, or their with the greens who want to eliminate it.

Period.

there is no middle ground, and I think it's pathetic that we gotta beg people to help themselves.
 

pjc

Chairman
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

Ya missed the point(s) Norm, and you know it.

1) The CBD, Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy simply laugh at the reactive efforts of the off-road community. Yes, a "Clean-up" is "reactive" in this war. Fortunately, and outside this war, it is a good, ethical thing to do. Just don't get confused and think that you're ever making a difference in the eyes of any eco-freak (large, small, weak or powerful).

2) The same bunch are in power because they have purchased the souls of corrupt (are there any that aren't corrupt?), democrat politicians.

3) The only way to de-power them is to vote every democrat, eco-puppets out of office and vote in leaders that will reform the ESA and abolish the frivolous lawsuits of the eco-nazis.

Lastly, you bet we'll buy articles. There are clean-up campaigns much like the honorable efforts of Paige & co. happening across the country. Sending dedicated staff to each one (wouldn't be fair to pick and choose, now would it?) would quickly fill ORC full of stories that people simply won't read to any extent.

Think back to what Rick Sieman has said many, many times... "Proactive not Reactive".

PJCinLV
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

I don't think Ann & Norm have missed the point at all. The point is that 169 people out of the entire desert racing group showed up. That is PATHETIC. And people SHOULD feel guilty that they put partying or just sitting around, cleaning the house, washing the car, picking their noses, going to the beach or whatever first. IF the people of this sport do not show that they care enough about the sport to help out with the war against the environmental activists, then this sport will be lost. The environmentalists have the upper hand at this point and they have been very successful at shutting down various popular off-road areas. At this point it truely looks like by the time I have kids, they will not have the chance to ever know what off-roading is because there will be NO places left to off-road except possible a designated off-road park here and there. At that point all the people who were too damn busy to help in this battle against the environmental extremists will have wished they got off their behinds and made a difference.

But at this point, only 169 people cared enough to come out. Thank you all so very much. Even people who lead very busy lives such as MDR's Patricia and family came out. Thank you to the Herbst for donating all the drinks. I think I drank about 1/4 of the water myself. All the sponsers that did give something --- you guys are all #1! To the teams that sent out some of their crew while the other part of the crew stayed behind.... You guys rock too! That's showing you care. Some businesses donated WAY more than their share and the people of CORDR are very appreciative.

Those who didn't donate anything because "things are tight right now" need to get involved! Hell, I know of a few places that wouldn't even donate a damn T-SHIRT to give away in a raffle, even though one of the CORDR members begged and begged. What kind of crap is that? I also know of a few places that are VERY tight on money right now and donated anyhow. Maybe they realize that their business depends on the off-road community and without a place to off-road they won't have much business in the future.

Okay, maybe some of you just don't want to clean up trash. Then how about going to some of the very important BLM and DAC meetings. Contact Paige or Norm and they can give you a list of meetings that need desert racing representatives.

All in all --- WAKE UP --- there's no roses to smell right now. Your racing/off-road days are limited. If YOU do not get involved then it's kinda like you ruin for everyone! If YOU don't help fight the environmental extremists, who will?


~~KEEP THE DESERT CLEAN~~
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

******
1) The CBD, Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy simply laugh at the reactive efforts of the off-road community. Yes, a "Clean-up" is "reactive" in this war. Fortunately, and outside this war, it is a good, ethical thing to do. Just don't get confused and think that you're ever making a difference in the eyes of any eco-freak (large, small, weak or powerful).
*******

No, you missed the point of both my posts entirely Pat. I'm talking about getting people to be pro-active. It's Pro-active to get out to a clean up and do something positive for the sport, and in the eyes of the public, rather than sit on a couch and watching movies.

Nowhere in my posts did I ever mention influencing eco-freaks. Several years worth of my being green columns on ORC, plus the envirolink situation and several dozen other articles I've written will attest to that.

But we agree totally that it (cleanups etc.) is a good and ethical thing to do. Absolutely no question.

****
2) The same bunch are in power because they have purchased the souls of corrupt (are there any that aren't corrupt?), democrat politicians.
*****

Which totally suports my position that people currently don't care enough to do anything to change it. you and I know the numbers Pat. We discussed just what a dramatic impact the outdoor recreation community means in sheer votes. But most don't vote. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. and further, if they cared, as I said, they would be working to change it. But I repeat from an earlier post. If people cant come to a clean up (which provides FREE BEER....speaking of wich, where was fidel anyway? I cant believe he of all people would pass up FREE BEER! ;-) what do you think the odds are that they'll do something "real fun" like forming and participating in a PAC, spending hours in DAC meetings, or actively working for change on even a semi-consistant basis?

*****
3) The only way to de-power them is to vote every democrat, eco-puppets out of office and vote in leaders that will reform the ESA and abolish the frivolous lawsuits of the eco-nazis.

Total, 100% agreement on that particular subject.

****
Lastly, you bet we'll buy articles. There are clean-up campaigns much like the honorable efforts of Paige & co. happening across the country. Sending dedicated staff to each one (wouldn't be fair to pick and choose, now would it?) would quickly fill ORC full of stories that people simply won't read to any extent.
*****

That's a cop out Pat and you know it.

You had Fidel stop by there on the way back from Cali last year but he got ...sidetracked or something.
We sent people to cover all sorts of events "selectively." We covered SCORE and BITD, but not SNORE or MDR. We picked and choosed every day of the week for all types of events. That's the nature of journalism. cover the important stories, and part of that is picking the ones that do the most collective good for the company and the off-road community.

OCD2 was planned for a year. ORC ran the story last year. I know. I formatted it myself. Paige wrote it and provided the pictures because Fidel didn't make it in time.


*****
Think back to what Rick Sieman has said many, many times... "Proactive not Reactive".
*****
As you know, Rick was my teacher on environmental issues and I respect him totally. It was his instruction that shaped my opinions and activities in this arena. He and I spent countless hours discussing this stuff, and I doubt he'd disagree much with what I posted.

Proactive is getting out in the off-road community and working to make a difference, not sitting on a couch watching NASCAR reruns.

Proactive is supporting the community through deeds in addition to words.

Proactive is putting personal politics aside and coming together with fellow off-roaders to support a sport that is in very real danger of being legislated out of existance.

And yes, Proactive means defying control freaks and voting the liberal democommunists out of office at every election from village dog catcher to President.

I havent said anything in my posts that you and I haven't discussed and agreed on a thousand times from Tonoipah to Cabo when I was the Ed at ORC. The difference is that now, I can speak freely, without fear of financial reprisals from the industry against anyone but myself.

We both know that there's plenty I couldn't say publically as the Ed of ORC for that very reason. ORC is a business, and as such, does have to be PC in limited respects so as not to piss off the advertizers. Thats simple economics, not a slam on the company. Regardless, My posts are accurate, and I will be happy to clarify any part of them.
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

OCD2 was planned for a year. ORC ran the story last year. I know. I formatted it myself. Paige wrote it and provided the pictures because Fidel didn't make it in time.

I meant to say

OCD2 was planned for a year. ORC ran the story of the first clean up last year. I know. I formatted it myself. Paige wrote it and provided the pictures because Fidel didn't make it in time.

I apologise for any confusion.
 

Waldo

Safehouse
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

There is a lot of emotion flying around in here! Everyone has the right to say and do what they feel. I agree with Pat, politics and $ and the driving force behind the eco-nuts and their agenda. They have an enormous amount of support and dough to put into the pockets of politicians. That is where the funding and efforts need to be focused as well.

Back when senate bill 7 and S11 were around, the only people I saw at the meetings were "desert" motorcycle riders/racers. I think Dan Smith and Larry Roseler were at one of the meetings I attended. The motorcycle clubs and D-37 encouraged us to attend and we did. There might have been some off-road truck/car racers there but I didn't know who they were. Basically, this has been going on since before many of our members in here were even born.

If you want to keep our desert open, contribute your time, money, mouth, or other POSITIVE aspect to any of the organizations that dedicate their time to this cause. There are plenty of them, CORDR, CORVA, ASA, AMA or many of the other ones. This thread is hot and heavy, if someone didn't want to go to the clean up, too bad! They didn't want to go. Others had different reasons that were valid to them so they didn't. Whether you agree with them or not, get over it. If you have a problem with why someone on this board didn't attend the ODCII, PM them and discuss the problem with them, don't bash them like this is the old board.

Thanks to Kreg and Paige for your valuable and positive efforts!

BRAAAAAAAAP!
 

Tom_Willis

Well-Known Member
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

The answer is to start a lobbying group. The lobbying group should be run (or at least started) by SEMA, because SEMA members profit from motorsports more than anyone else. They also should have the motivation to do it. You see, if the deserts were all closed tomorrow, I won't lose my job, (maybe my mind, but not my job). But the businesses involved in desert racing, sand rails and dirt bikes would be broke. Lobbyists are paid to see that this won't happen. At my lowly job I pay union fees every week to an association whose function (among other things) is to keep me from losing my job. I am paying for a lobbying group myself. Why shouldn't the manufacturers who make billions do the same? We shouldn't have to use our own money to do this. The companies who appear on the NASDAQ and employ thousands should be hiring the lobbyists. Ford, Toyota, Yamaha, B F Goodrich, etc., these are the ones who should be taking the lead on this. They have attorneys on staff, they even get to deduct this expense from their corporate profits..... This is our fight, but we shouldn't have to run the air war, that should be funded by the professionals.... The fab shops employing 4 or 5 men, Jen & Greg's prerunner club, promoters like Paul Duffy, (who have to fight with Yahoo's like La Rana to get race dates each season), they shouldn't be expected to beat fanatics armed with $'s and votes when Corporate America already has an army of attorneys on staff. If anybody thinks we can beat the sierra club on our own, they are wrong. We can't. But the billions of dollars earned by SEMA members can. And they risk closing their doors if they don't.

This sermon is over.
 

pjc

Chairman
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

Dani,

Don't get me wrong. The apathy of the Off-Road community is abhorent. And unfortunately, it has never changed.

Let me try to be a bit more clear..

1) The clean-up is a good thing. It's ethical. It's the "right thing to do*.
2) The clean-up will not sway eco-nuts. No how. No way. You are truly fooling yourself if you think so.
3) If you are trying to reach the community to get them to act against eco-nazis, a clean-up is not the solution.

So what works?

Consider that our enemies spend all their money of taking our rights away. They do this via mail campaigns to their sheeple, via lawsuits and via campaign contributions. This is all expensive and like it or not, it works. Organizations like ORBA are using this same battle plan. ORC has freely sponsored mass mail tools to political figures.

What can you do?

A good cheap start is to get solid, engaging information with an easy to do follow-up (email, fax, letter etc.) , to the people in the community. A good avenue is via the entry packets that go to each racer at every event. Print 10,000 of the same and stick them in the face of everyone at the various events you attend. (We did this at the LV Sand Show and indeed, Senator Reid and Ensign took notice.)

Another important effort is to build coalitions among every group that is affected by the eco's. Work your literature to include them or better, represent the coalition as a whole.

And the DAC meetings.. As a BLM RAC member (same thing) for Nevada, I must say that a good amount of what goes on behind closed doors is an insulting waste of time for everyone. Imagine trying to discuss economic logic with an eco-nazi, botany professor. Imagine the bureaucratic manipolation by even the good BLM'ers (in Nevada) whom can't control the eco-nazis in their own offices. Don't get me wrong.. One thing that the eco-nazis on the DAC hate is being challenged on a face to face basis. These people are cowards at the soul. They will tuck their tales and run. At minimum, you can have fun there.

Lastly, I am firm in my belief that the CA BLM is an extension fo the CBD. The leadership at the state level and the offices is absolutely corrupt. How to fix? VOTE!

PJCinLV
 

pjc

Chairman
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

Norm, Paige and co..

Consider that we don't "buy" articles from the Blue Ribbon Coalition.

The coverage of the clean-up should be a "Press Release" that is sent out wide and far.

PJCinLV
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

LOL! Here come's the "POST POLICE"!

Wrong Forum.......he he he.

<font color=red>DRIFT IT!!!</font color=red>
 

Waldo

Safehouse
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

I was wondering when you'd show up!

BRAAAAAAAAP!
 

Donahoe

Well-Known Member
Re: It\'s Not Easy Being Green

So Norm, Pat, Dani. What do you do? What is the answer?Let me paint a picture for you.... I have herd that desert racing is at the end of its life for 20 years. Long before the internet... Long before RDC, Off-road.com, and Rick Seimen got involved. And the way we have ALWAYS fought off our foes was through baby steps. We as a group can be strong sure.. THere is no doubt about that. But its like herding CATS.. Its not an easy thing to do. Summit tried to do it. But were are they now? No ONE make a living off-road racing.. Its Mainly a hobbie.. So most people in this hobbie are here to have fun... Its no fun Doing Clean-ups, going to Land closure meetings and playing the politics of the green guys. So while I have the attention of the LARGEST off-road RACING Publication in the world... (PAT) How can you Rally the troops. And Norm.. WHat are some of your Ideas? How do we herd cats? How do we see 10,000 people at next years clean up? And Does it matter? THe whole reason for the clean up is to get Stronger ties with the BLM and to show the World that we are not out there TRAMPLING the desert. The fact is that off-road racers have taken care of the stoddard Vally area for the last few years between the Cordr Clean ups and the (Bill Markel) Fair clean ups. And that 99% of the trash is from Illegle dumping and not Racers. Its baby steps... Using the money and resurses avalible to slowly make a differance. Ideas? Keep in mind that all of us have real Jobs. REALISTIC IDEAS? Keep in mind that we all have limited funds. Anyone?

NEVER LIFT!!!!!
 
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