Just for fun

[tapeworm]

Just for fun, What would be some updates to a class 9 car that you would think would make the class more affordable? I never knew how expensive the swing axle would be to run so it got me thinking of what could be if some changes were made. I'm not pushing for these changes, it's more of just a way to let some creativity out because i'm cheap and don't want racing to cost a ton.

Here are my thoughts:

IRS transmission. 3-rib 002, any gears, any R&P, but have a $2500 claimer rule on the trans to keep the super high dollar Weddle stuff out of there.

Keep the same motor rules so the transmission only has to be checked once or twice a year.

930 Cv's, no microstubs. Same rear arm rules as current 1600 class but keep current class 9 rules so you can keep your current shock setup. Allow disc brakes but again, no microstubs.

I figure with these rules you could re-do the rear of your car for less than $5k and it should last for a full year of racing with those parts.

For the front, allow a link pin front end, stock reinforced arms and spindles, and disc brakes. Any manufacture beam. 8 inch shock no bypass reservoir's allowed. Electric power steering allowed. A front end could be redone for $2500 roughly and would last just as long as the current setup.

Lower the minimum weight for a two seat car to 1400 and raise the single seat weight up to 1600 to try to even the field a little bit.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Mohr]

You just described class 18...

 

[Bluedemon]

no no no no. This Is a drivers class the rules were designed specifically to run the stock swingaxle and drums suspension . what your doing now is making the class faster and more expensive, the cars are already fast with the current setups if anything too fast now your going to have the guys that blow their money on maxing out the wee stock vw junk, now their going to be a whole lot faster blowing their money on the beefed up vw stuff, Cody has been talking about doing electric power steering that alone is going to make everyone faster, going to take out the work n struggle of driving the coffin everyone is going to have more stamina and driving with one hand, but i enjoy getting arm pump and having noodle arms after a race and i enjoy ripping the skin off my hands its nice to have reassurance that you're a man. in my opinion the class is cheap as hell just come down to driver on how he takes care of the equipment my preps lately have been just balljoints , beam bushings fluids airfilter n bolt check trans and motor hold up if you can drive with finesse.

 

[tapeworm]

Mr. Mohr yes, essentially class 18 but with a few upgrades and still the 100 inch wheelbase so all cars are still on the same playing field. It's been proven time and time again that an old 16 car can be updated to be competitive so without that wheelbase limit that class 18 won't ever gain interest. I was thinking with a few minor mods a class 9 car could be converted into an 18 car for a reasonable amount of money and go longer in between major services.

Really, the only rule I want to see changed is the stupid engine tin rule. Just allow us to run the offroad tins instead of the stock vw stuff. No performance gain and easier to deal with at this point.

I wouldn't mind disc brakes because the rear drums are expensive but I'm not going to make a push for that. I'm also not going to make a push for power steering.

Again, this is just meant to be a fun BS type thread to get people talking. There hasn't been too much banter in this section lately so I'm just trying to get some going. I'm not going to try to change any rules. I want to make that clear.

 

[Maxwell_99]

Nope, nope, and more nope. Racing is expensive. Plain and simple. Find a class you can afford and have fun. I agree some current rules could use some tweaking but most all of those first proposed ones are kind of ridiculous. Nothing is wrong with 9, for the most part. Cars are going fast as it is. Make them faster and break more stuff.


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[Grease Weed]

The only changes I see that would make it a little cheaper and a bit more reliable are;
Keep the swingaxle, but open the gear box up . 3:88 ring& pinion. Stronger and better gear ratios. You possibly run a full season on one prep. I’ve talked to multiple trans guys. A little more money up front but savings in tear down and time. Also good 4:37’s and 4:12’s are becoming harder to find.
2nd- ditch the rear drums for disc. Good German drums are all most impossible to find. The aluminum insert will cost all most the same as a set of disc.

 

[Mohr]

inexpensive disc brakes are not good enough for off road...If you go 4 lug, your drum problems are over...and there are plenty of play cars that will buy the 5 lug stuff...

 

[y2kbaja]

I would like to see power steering only because I have arthritis setting in. I would also like to race my car again.

 

[Bro_Gill]

The trans cost has become ridiculous. Even if you went with all the high dollar parts, axles and axle tubes will still need replacing every couple to 3 races on top of the trans look through. Originally Class 18 was suppose to be for 100" cars, but someone with some pull at SNORE decided their old 1600 car would fit the class nicely and the wheelbase rule went out the window, making 100" cars not competitive. And switching to link pin stuff up front but using the 8" travel shock rule will make leaf springs live much longer than what the 1600 guys are getting out of the leaves now with 10" of travel. I think I would put a limit on rear travel at 12" so that the entire driveline can live forever and those without big bucks but access to stock VW parts could run type 2 CVs and not have issues.

 

[tapeworm]

If the trans rule was opened up, is there a way to make the 3.88 spin the same as the 4.12 and 4.37 in 1st and 2nd to keep everything the same so we don't have to replace the R&P until our current one is bad? Would it cost too much to use 1st and 2nd gear with a 3.88 spin equivalent to the current setup?

 

[Mohr]

Yes, the ratios can be matched...On Robert McDonalds trans, they spent the grand to get a Weddle 4.12. It went 5 races, but we still had to service other parts. Mostly axles...and if you use aftermarket axles, the bearings get abused....As a trans builder, I don't see a "fix all" so a box will go 3 or 4 races....unless they decrease the mileage. and remember, the more durable it is, the faster you go, and then something else will fail. I feel the current rules should stand, it's a pretty solid formula. Just my 2c

 

[ACME]

No skin in the game but have watched it spiral like ALL the other classes in the dez and have a number of friends still in the game...

I'd: Open the trans rules, go back to single ports or a restrictor plate to slow them down like back in the SP days when they didn't rev as hard/high and transmission issues were lessened.

or

As with all classes the Ecotech is the obvious answer, along with a Mendi sequential, single coilover, IRS, Disc brakes & alum wheels

PS I'd throw a 37" Max tire rule in unlimited and 35" in all the other classes to help lessen the damage to the courses...

 

[Mohr]

Shut up Jeff!

 

[Grease Weed]

As far as Power sterling, I’m not against it, but no more parts should be allowed until the weight discrepancy is addressed. I’ll say it again two seat cars are at a disadvantage. Their all overweight.because of everything that’s been allowed since the rules were set. (1970’s)
@Mohr changing from 5 lug to 4 is not an option especially when nobody runs 4lug except for a couple of teams. If you need to borrow a spare no one will be able to help. Then to switch all your 5 to 4 will cost at least a 5 spot. Plus I have other vw’s all of which are 5 lug. Then how long before good 4 lug drums are to find.
I wasn’t talking of the cheap economical disc, there junk for race cars.

 

[Mohr]

FYI... The class was instituted in it's current formula in 1985...I ran 4 lug and had my own spares...and it taught me how NOT to GET flats...I used to change 1 front drum a year, and maybe 3 rears a year...and that was back when 9 ran full mileage...

 

[Grease Weed]

So your saying nothings been add since the rules were set? SACO racks, three separate master cylinders,
2.5” shocks with 7/8” shafts with massive reservoirs. Radios. JS
No matter though. Nothing will change.

 

[Bro_Gill]

We ran Saco racks when the class was new. The big shocks? Some people had them, the only change there was no reservoirs. Real weight changes- Side bar lacing that has to match cage size and all the electronics that people can't live without. There is no need for a fluid clutch in a 9 car and truth be told, if you don't break your brakes, a single master works just fine too.

 

[Mohr]

Just letting you know when it started..Yes, you're right, many things were added. If you've got a porky 2 seater, you can run it as a single...I do agree though, they should raise the minimums...

 

[ACME]

Jeez Joel, you are either getting grumpy or have become a democrat in your old age... no one but you has a valid opinion???

FYI, the shock can size rule did change, we were allowed coolers back in the day but the can size was limited... They did add resi's, allowed Dual Ports etc and also fuel cells since the classes inception so some things have changed for the better. BG & Joel make some valid points as you don't need compliant webbing unless you plan to run orgs who's rules require it, weight and others are subjective, if you are sharing parts that's on you, 4 lugs are a valid option and the racks were always open, they just didn't make the bigger one back then...

Getting back on topic: There really is no way to reduce the cost of racing. These are way to keep it in check but if your prepping correctly and stuff is not braking then it's a mute point... These cars have progressed but IMHO a lot of the progression has been due to rules changes which were influenced by certain parties AKA "special interests". Fat got the DP heads allowed and the fact is the motors changed since that day. I can tell you by the seat of the pants and from guys that raced and race the class under both motor rules that there is a difference between how they ran and worked from the SP days. At the same time the trans failures increased so it's not hard to draw a correlation. Simple fact is if you slow them down a hair, it will reduce costs but Pandora's box is open and no one wants to go backward especially a motor or trans builder...

The only way any rule changes in this class make sense to me is they do not create a performance advantage or force competitors to spend money to keep up because some guy has or wants to use part X. Remember, performance advantages or major sweeping rules changes that create disparity in the cars or heavy investments to keep up hurt the classes.

In addition to opening the internal trans rules a bit which isn't a cost a lot or create an distinct performance advantage; I think the concept of the billit ft/rr drum hats is a good option. It keeps it drum brakes and good stock parts are getting harder to find. It's coming anyway and again doesn't create any real advantage and the long term benefit outweighs the investment.

As for the other ideas tossed around, the bitchen thing I have always loved about this class was the simplicity and the fact it is a racers class. It's all about prep/setup and driver living within the confines of the equipment. IMHO If you want to add this and that or change the class, move to a different class. The new era mentality is change everything, what about me, I have feelings and participation ribbons but the fact is if you really feel it needs to be changed, maybe you need a change...

It seems everyone wants to run flat out at Rage or Barstow and be that guy. How many of you have or could race the Baja 500 or 1000 and have the restraint to go fast enough, make the car last and finish? Think you could make it from Ensenada to San Felipe in Record??? Or is the idea simply to change them enough so you can run flat out in MORE or SNORE and make them bullet proof?

Crawling back under my rock Joel, Happy Holidays to all the swingers!

PS One way to offset some cost to the limited classes is to not have the courses torn up by the biggers cars. Thus my comment of smaller tires which I've suggested for 10 years. But that's another Pandora's box and no one wants to go slower and certain guys will make sure what's good for the sport is what's good for them...

 

[tapeworm]

How big of a difference is there between a single port and dual port motor? Would it be fair to say single seat cars have to run single port motors and two seat cars can run dual port motors?


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