LAS VEGAS BLM range management plan revisions

snoreracer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2003
Posts
4,216
RDC Crypto
2,784
Location
las vegas nv
Website
aol.com
The meeting starts tomorrow at 5 pm at the Santa Fe casino US 95 and Rancho . From the south exit at Craig rd and turn on Rainbow. public comment starts at 7 pm and you have 3 minutes . Please try to show up before 5PM and pick up your tee shirt .
proof plan 1 placement proof.jpg
 

snoreracer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2003
Posts
4,216
RDC Crypto
2,784
Location
las vegas nv
Website
aol.com
The Las Vegas BLM RMP meeting is tonight . Is's in the centennial ballrooms A&B this is on the 2nd floor above the Buffet. I will be out in the lobby of the ballroom with a new tee shirt for the 1st 220 that show up please get there before 5PM.
 

snoreracer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2003
Posts
4,216
RDC Crypto
2,784
Location
las vegas nv
Website
aol.com
If you work at a OHV industry , prep cars ,sell parts or OHVs , Build engines or transmissions for OHVs this will effect you and hurt your bottom line or cost you your job
 

R. Gross

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Posts
238
RDC Crypto
264
Location
Las Vegas
Well last night a few went to the Las Vegas BLM meeting. Long story short is was embarrassing and one step closer to losing off road racing in Southern Nevada except for Laughlin. To represent off road we had 5 speakers with a 3 minute time limit. Kenny Freeman, Kenny Thatcher, Lucas Hand myself and another gentleman spoke on behalf of leaving the existing RMP in place. We were outnumbered about 5 to 1 with entities present from the BLM, Fish & Wildlife, Forestry Service, Sierra Club and few others who's names I did not catch.
I learned alot and if you look at the maps Kenny has provided it is a shame that in early as two years we will have NO long course racing in Southern Nevada. No Mint, No Midnight Special, No Pabco. With the seizure of the area in Jean organizations will not be able to connect the dots to get an approved loop. I am sure this area was selected for a reason and they know it. If you take the heart of the valley and only leave ancillary trails and washes, the only recreation that will be allowed will be for minimal trail riding, but organized events will never even make it to the permitting process. DEAD!
We have one last chance to have you input in the Vegas area. Henderson on 1-17-18. I am going to call out some names, not to piss them off, but they do have some local business power or vested interest that this land seizure does not move forward. So that if you know of anyone with these orgs or business's you can inform them of the importance of their presence in Henderson. Last night we saw no presence of the Martelli Brothers, BITD, MRAN, WORCS, BJ, Collins, Carter Motorsports, Ride Now, VORE, TEAM Ford, engine builders, transmission builders, fabricators and on and on. Not everyone needs to speak at the podium, but your presence means alot and you can fill out the forms showing your opposition to this land seizure. We will not get a do over. Once gone it will be gone forever. In 3 years when you either have to drive to Barstow or Ridgecrest to race, don't complain on RDC. Oh yeah, and the value of that racecar that you love so much will only be worth a paperweight.
Below is a brief of what I stated last night at the podium. I came up just short trying to spit it out in 3 minutes but came close. Please use some or all or adjust to fit you circumstance if needed. Everyone please use social media or whatever you have to do to get the word out.

"I am here to state my opposition to any change in the RMP and in fact I want to declare that Southern Nevada is decades over due in having a dedicated OHV area. Here is my history with living in Nevada. In Las Vegas we used to be able to ride right out of our house for endless hours of recreating on existing dirt roads, trails and washes. We always understood growth and eventually we had to trailer to get to the open desert. In the surrounding deserts we learned to ride. My Dad in turned taught me and my brother to ride and race in these deserts. In turn I taught my 3 boys to ride and race in these deserts. I now have a 3 year old grandson who already has his little PW50 and gear for when he is ready to ride. We live here to recreate in the deserts. By taking away our public lands you are stealing our family heritage and future. This may not mean much to those who do not value the desert or recreate in other ways, but in means everything to us as a family.

We understand that growth happens and we have been pushed out of the valley, but once pushed out you are now trying to make the box smaller. These deserts are where families like ours teach our kids values, teamwork, talk as a family and enjoy what we have in common and not only with us, but thousands of others just like us. In over 45 years and hundreds of trips to the desert, I can attest the we have never left the desert in worse condition then when we showed up. In fact we have always taken the time to pick up what others have left. There are very many like us and we do not need to be regulated by the Government. It is a shame that others disrespect the desert, but there are always going to be those type of people in the world.

I am trying to relate this land seizure to other issues that are similar. It would be like being a skier and buying a house in Tahoe and then for some insane reason the Government says that they are going to shut down 2/3 of the ski resorts. That is what those people do, that is their livelihood. No difference here. By seizing the land, what is the end game? What do you plan to accomplish? Just designate what existing trails we can ride on and which ones we can’t?

To me this decision to take more of our public land that is designated to be used by the public is more important than elections. If we elect someone and we do not agree with what they are doing or how they are doing it, we can elect a new person in 2 or 4 years. If this land seizure goes through and it is a bad decisions there will probably no avenue to reverse the decision and get the land back to the public for public use. You know and we all know that once the Government seizes upon something whether it be your land, your rights or anything else you will never get it back. I believe the Native Americans can attest to that and nothing has ever been given back to them.

As for the BLM or Fish & Wildlife or any other entity that really wanted a true public comments about this issue, why don’t they advertise it publicly on news media for the public to see and be aware of this meeting. A few 15 second commercials on our local news stations at the 5 oclock news for the 10 days before this this meeting does not cost that much. The BLM has no problem with spending $50K for a Jeep Unlimited 4 door Rubicon for a single Recreation Planner to drive around the desert. Could a 2 door model work just as well to do his job and the difference of one 4 door Jeep to a 2 door Jeep could probably pay for all those commercials. I believe that 98% of the general public that uses the deserts to recreate is not even aware that this meeting is taking place. This is just another fly under the radar land grab that does not benefit the public in any way, shape or form. Also now we are told we only get 3 minutes at the podium? A time limit imposed to limit the amount of opposition to this issue and one that is so important.

On the economic front. Desert recreation has a huge impact to our local economy. Think of all the tax revenue that is made off of the sales of the dirt bikes and 4 wheelers? With limited places to ride sales will drop, jobs will be lost, but the Government employees who think of these crazy ideas and who will be enforcing the closures will still have their jobs. I know personally the economic impact of room, food, beverage and gambling increases when we hold races in the desert. People come from hundreds and some thousands of miles away to race in our deserts on existing roads, trails and washes and when they are here they spend a lot of money. Why would you want to take that avenue of generating revenue away and give it to another state or market? If your Government check was based on that revenue you would think twice. What if your family income was either increased or deducted based on the impact of the money generated by the use of the desert? What if your check went down 1% every time someone did not buy a razor? I bet you would be all for leaving the desert alone then? It amazes me that those who think up these crazy ideas about how to regulate others probably do not see eye to eye with those who these ideas affect.

In closing I would like to state that I appreciate the opportunity to voice my opinion and hopefully my views have an impact on the decision and that hopefully this land grab is not an already done deal and this is just a formality to make the public feel good. I have come to these meeting in the past and wrote my questions before just to never receive a response and the land deal went through anyways. In the last decade I believe the Government and BLM has already seized El Dorado Valley and Primm South and other areas for solar farms and those areas we can no longer enjoy. The Government needs to stop and stop now."
 
Last edited:

R. Gross

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Posts
238
RDC Crypto
264
Location
Las Vegas
Thank you. we'll be there.
Time?

Starts at 5 pm with commenting at the podium at 7 pm. First to sign up to speak is the first to the podium. There are maps and info that can be read while waiting to speak. Main thing is to show that there are many there interested in the opposition. I think Kenny gave out maybe 20 orange shirts so I am sure there are alot available still. We need a sea of orange.
 

SLRock

New Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Posts
4
RDC Crypto
6
Location
pahrump
Well, I sent this in to the BLM, But still plan on Attending the meeting in Pahrump Jan 16th



My Name is Gary (rocky) Reeser

I am a 3 generation Riding Family. Me, Son, and Grandchildren, ride.

We use the Trails and Washes East of Pahrump, Mainly into, and up the Washes of the Wheeler Pass Rd., Trout Canyon, and other too numerous to name. These washes- up to- but outside the Mt. Charleston Wilderness provide for Family Motorcycling Quality Experiences.

There should be NO reason to close access to non resource damaging trail riding in this area.
Especially, the sand and gravel washes, that 'self erase' my trail motorcycle tracks after yearly mini flash floods

These Washes run mainly east/west. We also need the north/south existing connectors to these washes for connectivity.

Also, there is some excellent existing trails in this area that should be in the 'Existing Inventory' of Allowed/Legal trails to ride.

Yours, Gary (rocky) Reeser
 
Last edited by a moderator:

vegasloki

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Posts
1,364
RDC Crypto
1,282
Location
Vegas
The reason you don't see Mad or BITD at the public comment meetings is they have direct access to those involved. I'd bet they are in the loop but they aren't going on the internet and ranting about it. By the time it gets to public comment the wheels are in motion and it's unlikely anything will significantly change. Public comment is a legal formality required under the law and typically input by single individuals goes largely unrecognized particularly at the Federal level.

I understand the passion but statements like calling out the BLM for the type of Jeeps they choose is counter productive to the cause. The approaches thus far seem to be non proactive and confrontational. That's guaranteed to get you tuned out. The confrontational approach has likely alienated potential allies in the industry. I was dismissed earlier but the way to be heard about this issue is to develop a focused, professional lobbying effort. This includes economic and political allies. You need to have a directed response based on facts and not emotions. That starts with lobbying your elected representatives and getting them involved. Use what happened in Johnson Valley when the Marines wanted to take part of the OHV area there as a guide to getting the same thing done here. Until there is a better approach than "hey you kids get off my lawn" your voices won't be heard.
 

SLRock

New Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Posts
4
RDC Crypto
6
Location
pahrump
''quote'' > Public comment is a legal formality required under the law and typically input by single individuals goes largely unrecognized particularly at the Federal level.

So...this has been told, and proven a time or two before. Many riding friends laugh at my attempts to involve myself and work within the 'comment' tools to effect change.
What choice do we have? I can't (unless to an extreme point) ride with my grandson looking over my shoulder.
That is not the freedom of a days trail riding,--- looking over ones shoulder to be chased down.

Hopefully I expected the winds to blow in a different direction with the Trump Adm. and Ryan Zinke
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Posts
4,009
RDC Crypto
2,271
Location
Glendora/Parker AZ
Vegasloki:

I totally disagree with your comments. During the MANY CA land use issues, all of the PROMOTERS and most of the Racers, Shops, Suppliers, industry ballers were notified in some manner and many by email and I can give you a detailed list of the few car/industry representatives that showed at any of the meetings. A list of over 50 TT/Unlimited teams were directly asked via email, with a number of the top TT drivers asked numerous times to get involved: Ironically only a few unlimited guys or team members showed and not one TT racer stepped up. The majority of the racers who did show and voiced their opinions or made their presence known were the limited class guys with only a handful of industry suppliers & shops who make a living from it there. Oh and MORE was the only promoter in CA who showed just as SNORE does in NV.

It was even suggested to a certain media company and others with a huge online personalities: To use their social media presence to help get people to engage; but again nothing from those racers or industry stars?

It's not enough to give your comments as the Marines or the BLM didn't care about them in CA and those comments basically fell on deaf ears. The bottom line is people must show up in numbers, they cannot ignore numbers and media and we have no momentum with either; however the opposition does... Numbers and bodies worked back in the day with Cranston, Levine, Boxer and Feinstein but now it seems a click of the mouse is all we can muster.

Kenny and the same crew have always fought the fight on our behalves in NV just as a few have in CA. But sadly the majority of the community is apathetic or too self absorbed to get involved up front or behind the scenes. This community and most of it's suppliers have always been way too self centered to give a damn and that has always been the case going back to the 80's.

People have tried sugar and unicorns to entice the lemmings and the community didn't react to that any more than hard words; so who cares if the truth and some ass kicking offends people? Maybe it will wake a few up.

It's sad but people bury their head in the sand and put more emphasis on their social profiles and getting a participation ribbon or being friended then getting involved in hard issues and maybe that's why we are at a low point in society. Then one day when it's all taken away they will wake up and bitch and complain how it's not fair.

It's very simple: You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. So far this community is the biggest part of the problem...


Thanks for fighting the fight in NV!
 

slvrbullet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Posts
201
RDC Crypto
95
Location
Middleton, Idaho
I called out a few teams a few years back on this issue and got ganged up on by some of the more popular members on this forum because of them being groupies of the teams. 1 team came back and gave the old do you know how much we spend in Mexico supporting locals and all we do for Baja, just to justify why they did not show up to stateside land use issues. The fact is most of these guys that have the money for unlimited vehicles that could actually help just plain do not care, or at least that's how they come off. ACME is right " This community and most of it's suppliers have always been way too self centered to give a damn and that has always been the case going back to the 80's." Imagine if Mad Media put in the same publicity effort they do for the Mint 400 into land right issues. I would put money on it that they would help make a difference and I'm sure we would see more shops, builders, racers show up to these types of things. However it comes down to the bottom line of making a profit in the now and not 10 years in the future.
 

R. Gross

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Posts
238
RDC Crypto
264
Location
Las Vegas
Vegasloki:

I do not proclaim to be an expert by no means on this. Kenny gets 99%of the credit and if it was not for him, this would not have come to light. From what I understand this new RMP proposal just came to light a few weeks ago when they posted it and the end date for comments is February 2nd. No time for setting up lobbyist, or political entities. I was just trying to wake the population up to what is going on and how fast it is coming. I do believe persons in power would help but right now we need numbers and a showing.
If I was one of the persons there in support of the closure I would be saying like, "this is a non-issue, look only 5 people are against it, lets close the desert, we win". If more of us were there to comment they would see how many people and industries, jobs it does affect and maybe they would learn something also.
I just can't get my arms around the fact that in a few years if we want to go camp, test, ride at the Jean Dry Lake bed it would be against the law. Let that sink in.
 

Mooch2Peril

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Posts
98
RDC Crypto
129
Location
Houston, Texas
I don’t know what help I can or cannot be since I live in Texas. However, I have a very successful background and career in the oil and gas industry fighting the BLM and DOI. I’ve done this locally and at the DOI with the Secretary him/her selves, state governors, and senators federally in DC. Public comment is a formality, and my best outcomes were always being involved before during and after, but most importantly partnering with them. Give and take relationships, you give us this or allow this and we will do this (improve acres, build a monument, improve the roads at x locations, etc). We also were successful in forming an industry council to include BLM, FWS, etc look up NMOGA, and TXOGA organizations. If off-road could do that, that would be a huge step forward. It’s not a sure fire thing but found and built connections in DC over the years to have a path of escalation over local offices. If not for these after the BP spill in the GoM we’d still not be drilling, or lesser prairie chicken or sand dune lizard would of been listed as endangered and shut down one of the largest oil finds in the world. Not lobbying, it was more advocating, and being an industry subject matter expert to align a common interest with the .gov types.

I can help where needed and setup such trade groups, open the doors etc, but physically being in their office helps. I got the time just not the cash for accommodations, or travel. Such a council as O&G has established was a resource (people, office, financial contributions, etc) to establish, man, and fund the efforts to draft comments, plans, rules, and legal representation when needed.

As someone else mentioned once it’s gone it is gone. I’ve seen this happen for grazers, oil, power, and more on public lands numerous times.
 

SLRock

New Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Posts
4
RDC Crypto
6
Location
pahrump
Well Mooch, I thought the Blue Ribbon Coalition was a help in that direction. But in the Recreational not the Racing Sphere. I belonged to them since their early days. They never did get the donations and million man march that is needed for major change of wind.
Yep, same as me, an old timer in Oregon. Once the Old Common Sense Rangers and Land Managers Retired.
We get hammered.
So,...is it too late? With your plan, a wave of support and rallies which we haven't seen yet. AND, the present administration with Zinke it could work.
 

Mooch2Peril

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Posts
98
RDC Crypto
129
Location
Houston, Texas
Well Mooch, I thought the Blue Ribbon Coalition was a help in that direction. But in the Recreational not the Racing Sphere. I belonged to them since their early days. They never did get the donations and million man march that is needed for major change of wind.
Yep, same as me, an old timer in Oregon. Once the Old Common Sense Rangers and Land Managers Retired.
We get hammered.
So,...is it too late? With your plan, a wave of support and rallies which we haven't seen yet. AND, the present administration with Zinke it could work.
I was involved with BRC early on too for Texas which led to a lot of good in the beginning but faded fast.

Not discrediting the a wave of support ideas and rallies but I’m not asking for that. My plan or help would be 1on1 and small council of industry (top racer(s)/team manager, shop owner, fabricator, big names parts and vehicle/moto/quad sales or dealer, race promoter) players at all levels of off-road racing and recreation to meet with govt, then promote working together behind closed doors. Do more with less proactively in a controlled meeting(s)rather than wait till public comment periods. For the specific RMP changes facing us, it is not a lost cause to support the efforts as mentioned by OP but for my thoughts and previous line of employment in regulatory affairs, it’s too late. We(?) would need to organize quick, and prepare to go to DC for current RMP change proposal. There would be a lot of details to iron out way beyond my 2 posts and is the want to do this really there for industry? Can’t go in hash out with govt get them to say okay then we sit on our hands. It we (industry of racers and hobbies for OHV) commit to something we’d be obligated to do it or BLM will not take it serious, or seek revenge post escalation to DC. All that’s needed is a commitment of industry from shop, sales, service, race, and racers to select delegates; meet to organize; go back to industry with a plan of attack including costs; then go. Supportive efforts to the cause would then be reinforced by local shows of support such as what’s being solicited in this thread.

Just a thought of ways I’ve personally helped in similar issues impacting public lands. Is it fool proof? no, can it fail? Yes, but banding together and branding it unified with the govt will go a long way. How do you thing orgs such as Sierra Club, greenpeace, and small interest groups are able to conquer so much with .gov? They do exactly what I’m proposing.
 

Mooch2Peril

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Posts
98
RDC Crypto
129
Location
Houston, Texas
Also, not advocating for it to be ME. I can recommend 100 people just as or more competent. Worst case even someone not knowing of the ins and outs of how .gov works but that can cost valuable time navigating. Not many in this line of work with a dog in the fight either. I have race cars I’d like to race on our public lands or enjoy with my kids/grandkids as the poster who spoke at the BLM meeting highlighted.
 

firedog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2001
Posts
2,652
RDC Crypto
650
Location
Snowmass, Colorado
Website
www.facebook.com
It sucks to be a "little guy" who puts all the $$ we can afford to go race in the dezert. We want to come to the meetings but work gets in the way, sucks!! Where are all the big players in Vegas??? Why are they not coming to the meetings??? Collins, VORE, BITD, Martelli Bros, Herbst, Camburg, Jimco, PCI, Fox, King, Karteck, Pistol Pete, Mark Post, Roger Norman, ect, ect. they all have a stake in the game.
 
Last edited:
Top