Lets talk 1600 rebuild

GunnSlinger

Captain Backpack
alright so, we can rebuild a v8 and make plenty of power, we can do all of the work in-house with some help from a friend of ours who who's a machine shop...

my question is: does anybody rebuild their own 1600 motor (besides the obvious big name motor builders)... do any "home grown" 1600 guys rebuild their own motors??... are you able to be competitive or have you ever heard of anybody doing this??...

im not saying that we would be able to make the power that a fat, wiks, or majors motor would make right out of the box but if we already had one of those builders motors and decided to rebuild it ourself or even overhaul an old one .......IS IT POSSIBLE to still be competitive ??? (this is all considering we have the correct components ... pistons, rods, cam....)

im think'n about trying it, would like to learn from others mistakes first .. :D

im all about the "home grown" racer! and if i can, i would like to do it myself !!! :)
 

AZ1000

2009 DRIVE CHAMP
alright so, we can rebuild a v8 and make plenty of power, we can do all of the work in-house with some help from a friend of ours who who's a machine shop...

my question is: does anybody rebuild their own 1600 motor (besides the obvious big name motor builders)... do any "home grown" 1600 guys rebuild their own motors??... are you able to be competitive or have you ever heard of anybody doing this??...

im not saying that we would be able to make the power that a fat, wiks, or majors motor would make right out of the box but if we already had one of those builders motors and decided to rebuild it ourself or even overhaul an old one .......IS IT POSSIBLE to still be competitive ??? (this is all considering we have the correct components ... pistons, rods, cam....)

im think'n about trying it, would like to learn from others mistakes first .. :D

im all about the "home grown" racer! and if i can, i would like to do it myself !!! :)
Rebuild an engne that they built, with the same components, I would say yes. You will miss some assembly tricks, but I think it would be close.
Having said that, mine is coming out Saturday to go to my builder, (Richard Bender @ORBS, shameless plug), it needs the heads looked at, probably a valve job etc, so I would prefer he did that. So for me having him tear it down and reassmble works, but I believe I could do it. :eek:
 

wildtoyota

Active Member
I build my own motors, (along with every other part of the car)... I have learned so much in the last three years. Still have a long way to go... but have come a long way. My motors are getting more competitive, just need to work on the driving.:D Pickup a few books on the vw engine to help you with some assembly hints. Study what they did, when they first built it. The tricks will come with time. You will need a few special tools.
 

GunnSlinger

Captain Backpack
I build my own motors, (along with every other part of the car)... I have learned so much in the last three years. Still have a long way to go... but have come a long way. My motors are getting more competitive, just need to work on the driving.:D Pickup a few books on the vw engine to help you with some assembly hints. Study what they did, when they first built it. The tricks will come with time. You will need a few special tools.
awesome !!... thanks for the positive feedback!...

i think this is something totally do-able and if i could save myself 5k by doing it myself, i might as well give it a shot! .... even if it wasn't possible, i think i would still try :D
 

Matt D

Boy Toy
awesome !!... thanks for the positive feedback!...

i think this is something totally do-able and if i could save myself 5k by doing it myself, i might as well give it a shot! .... even if it wasn't possible, i think i would still try :D
I rebuild all my motors in my garage (1600, 1835, 2180) I would not call them "full race" motors but they definitely get the job done.

I say go for it, and if its over your head you can always call someone to have them put it back together for you :D
 

GunnSlinger

Captain Backpack
I build my own motors, (along with every other part of the car)... I have learned so much in the last three years. Still have a long way to go... but have come a long way. My motors are getting more competitive, just need to work on the driving.:D Pickup a few books on the vw engine to help you with some assembly hints. Study what they did, when they first built it. The tricks will come with time. You will need a few special tools.
I rebuild all my motors in my garage (1600, 1835, 2180) I would not call them "full race" motors but they definitely get the job done.

I say go for it, and if its over your head you can always call someone to have them put it back together for you :D
... any estamate on how much $ is being saved by doing it yourself??
 

wildtoyota

Active Member
... any estamate on how much $ is being saved by doing it yourself??
If you are not counting tools, :) then a lot. Rebuild a motor.. No where near 5k But if you have to buy tools to build your own motors that is a different story then way more than 5k. I am no pro at building motors, but to build one completely myself I use my valve grinder, tig welder for heads, mill for fly cutting, lathe for misc parts and bearings, flow bench, computer, measuring tools, scale, etc. To rebuild you could start with a good ring compressor, cam gear puller for the crank gear, along with a means of heating oil put it back on, parts washer, measuring tools, misc valve lapping items, torque wrench, a good book or two on vw motors.

As long as rest parts are good, bearings, piston rings, gasket kits are cheap.

Mark everything to where is came out.. Cylinders, pistons, cam timing, etc.
 

LukeMcMillin

Well-Known Member
You could talk to John Manring, (Jam1600) on RDC, he builds his own motors for his 1/2 1600 car. They won the MDR race in Feb.
 

BradInch

Member
have someone do your heads and then buy the tools to DOUBLE check the cc,s in the head three cc,s is alot,then buy the tools to check the deck hight.there are alot of web sites that have the math,find a engine bluilder that will give you the minimuns have fun
 

GunnSlinger

Captain Backpack
have someone do your heads and then buy the tools to DOUBLE check the cc,s in the head three cc,s is alot,then buy the tools to check the deck hight.there are alot of web sites that have the math,find a engine bluilder that will give you the minimuns have fun
ya thats what i planed on doing ... a good friend of mine owns half of a VERY popular and very successful motor shop... they just dont mess with vw stuff though ... between our shop (garage :) ) and his shop we have everything that we would need to do it ourselves

im not much of a motor builder myself, ive rebuilt a half a dozen v8's .... i guess ill just have to do a little trial and error with the vw stuff .... :D
 

AZ1000

2009 DRIVE CHAMP
ya thats what i planed on doing ... a good friend of mine owns half of a VERY popular and very successful motor shop... they just dont mess with vw stuff though ... between our shop (garage :) ) and his shop we have everything that we would need to do it ourselves

im not much of a motor builder myself, ive rebuilt a half a dozen v8's .... i guess ill just have to do a little trial and error with the vw stuff .... :D
I'm having a cam change made this go around or I would disassemble mine have the heads done, and put it back together myself, but my car owner, (wife), wants it right as she has a race coming up too. I did my 4 seater engine and it ran great.

You could talk to John Manring, (Jam1600) on RDC, he builds his own motors for his 1/2 1600 car. They won the MDR race in Feb.
I have heard from a lot of folks that Jon does do good engine work.
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
You could talk to John Manring, (Jam1600) on RDC, he builds his own motors for his 1/2 1600 car. They won the MDR race in Feb.
Luke is right John builds his own motors and he also builds motors for a few of his friends too. Both 1600 and class 12.
 

43mod

Well-Known Member
good thread.the fear of these little moters has kept me thinking i should not get a buggy.let us know how you do.
 

GunnSlinger

Captain Backpack
good thread.the fear of these little moters has kept me thinking i should not get a buggy.let us know how you do.
that was absolutely my fear too but if i can avoid relying on someone else, save money and still retain power all at the same time, its worth the shot! ... im just doing all of my homework right now but i will be sure to start a thread if/when i get to turning wrenches.
 

ffrank

Well-Known Member
I do my own motors also. With most engine builders you are paying for their knowledge on what works and what does'nt. with classes 11,9,5-16,16 there are not alot of tricks or variables. Cams, valves, springs, retainers, keepers, pushrods, lifters, seat pressures, straight-cut gears, oil pumps, pistons, rings, compression, even down to brands of bearings are the items where the engine builders experience comes in. It is very easy to duplicate or rebuild a motor that has been built before. It is tougher (but not that hard) to start from scratch. You'll find your changing studs, trimming tin, and going to your local bug place alot. I pay a machinist to do all machining and as Brad Inch says CHECK IT! I have had things machined wrong. When you go to the higher classes is where you need to pay, whether for advice or to do the work. Too many options or combinations to go wrong, and way to expensive to guess! You can definiatly do the lower classes yourself! Buying all new parts for a 1600 car, I would guess it costs around 3500.(guessing but close). Good luck!
 

MadMike1111

Well-Known Member
I built our engine AND the transaxle. If you are a semi-talented mechanic you can do this stuff. I agree 100% on what you're paying for is the experience of what works and how to make adjustments from feedback from the major engine builders.

I assembled our ALL new 11 car engine for less than $3K. That fit our budget at the time. And it's a reliable runner so far. I do not do any of the machine work, that's left to machinist, but like others have said, I check it. I CC the heads and calculate compression ratios with measured deck height on all cylinders. I take the time to set the end thrust perfectly, balance the pistons with their pins and rings, etc.

You can easily buy the parts you need to assemble a nice racing engine, putting it together PRECISELY is what takes time.

Your choices on parts and their quality is what you have to analyze. Torque vs. top end, Reliability vs. heat, how often will you really inspect the engine?

Our first attempt is a runner but I'm going to swap the cam soon, when I do I will also adjust the compression ratio, do some valve work I want to try, freshen bearings and rings and reinspect everything.

Transmissions are more confusing. But actually not that hard either, you just need some special tools. Once you get over that it's just time.
 

M.Harvey1600

Well-Known Member
we use to build our 1600 motor in house... Casey Jefferies did it for us... it saved quit bit of money... we were competitive against the pro1600 field won a few races, and a championship but now Im going to have Jimenez build the motor and see if we were in fact at a disadvantage motor wise...

also we use to do our trans in house and recently sent it over to DFT. daniel said our 3rd and 4th were way off... he said that had a lot to do with some of our problem...

we couldnt pull sand/gravel washes or silt for crap... it flew through the rough stuff though... that was where we had an advantage... besides we trimmed 100 lbs off the car recently so I'm excited to see what she can do as soon as I can afford to race it again...
 
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