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Looking for advice before buying a new SxS

novaman64

Well-Known Member
So hadn't really seen or heard much about the SpeedSxS exhaust, ended up picking one up about a month ago, finally just got around to installing it. Definitely loud, but being as I pretty much am always wearing a helmet (CA law, or when Im running wide open in the NV dez I always have a helmet on) not to bad. Gets rid of that annoying tinny rattle off idle. Sounds super raspy and angry. Can tell Robby Gordon had a hand in designing it, just like his TT, its loud and will make a statement when running wide open through the dez. Haven't flashed the ECU yet, but feel like it has significantly more on the mid range and a bit more up top.

 

bullnerd

Well-Known Member
Sounds cool!

How's the steering feel with the new front rims?

Is there any issue with the different offset?

How'd ya get the road rash on that back plastic panel?
 

novaman64

Well-Known Member
Sounds cool!

How's the steering feel with the new front rims?

Is there any issue with the different offset?

How'd ya get the road rash on that back plastic panel?
Steering- Dunno, still have the stockers on, bead lock rings are off at powder because Im being a diva.

Road rash- too small of a trailer and not tied down well enough. back gate rubbed it. get lazy when your just going a few miles... <-- stupidity
 

afortune46

Well-Known Member
So hadn't really seen or heard much about the SpeedSxS exhaust, ended up picking one up about a month ago, finally just got around to installing it. Definitely loud, but being as I pretty much am always wearing a helmet (CA law, or when Im running wide open in the NV dez I always have a helmet on) not to bad. Gets rid of that annoying tinny rattle off idle. Sounds super raspy and angry. Can tell Robby Gordon had a hand in designing it, just like his TT, its loud and will make a statement when running wide open through the dez. Haven't flashed the ECU yet, but feel like it has significantly more on the mid range and a bit more up top.

You gain less then 3 hp and a marginal amount of torque with any muffler on this car - the power to be found is in the header. That was Nate at Albas findings (Nate does the speed sxs flash) . Our short course cars have 2 different mufflers on them yeilding zero difference until the header gets changed out.

Your ecu reflash will be the biggest bang for your buck. The bufferfly does a lot of weird stuff with the oem ecu tune and never goes wide open with the oem ecu.
 

Total Loss

Well-Known Member
You gain less then 3 hp and a marginal amount of torque with any muffler on this car - the power to be found is in the header. That was Nate at Albas findings (Nate does the speed sxs flash) . Our short course cars have 2 different mufflers on them yeilding zero difference until the header gets changed out.

Your ecu reflash will be the biggest bang for your buck. The bufferfly does a lot of weird stuff with the oem ecu tune and never goes wide open with the oem ecu.
Had you guys do mine...noticed instant difference...even with just the stock header and cat removed from the stock muffler. Smoother, faster...more linear... I like it...and cooler.
Gonna spend the header $$$ on springs. Don't really need the 2-3 hp.
 

Nessy

Well-Known Member
Had you guys do mine...noticed instant difference...even with just the stock header and cat removed from the stock muffler. Smoother, faster...more linear... I like it...and cooler.
Gonna spend the header $$$ on springs. Don't really need the 2-3 hp.[

I think you misunderstood what Alex was saying. The header is where the HP is not the muffler.
 

Total Loss

Well-Known Member
Didn't misunderstand anything.
I am fully aware of the HP gains with a header. I also gained (probably about 5) HP with the flash and cat removal. (up to 2019 HP rating of 130 from my 125)
Made the choice not to spend $800 on a header that might get me 2-3 more HP...not worth it to me.
The flash for me was more about the changes to the mapping, 2 foot driving, lower fan switch temps...etc.
My brother has the Speedwerx header...I know what they look like and perform as.

I think I know a little more about these rigs than you do.
I got to 84 mph now (dry lake 2800 ft) and I think it wanted to pull even more.

Wildcat XX ECU Programming
Standard Features For All Programs:
  • Reworked Fuel and Ignition Tables for Added Power and Performance using 91 Octane Pump Fuel
  • Horsepower Increased Over Stock (up to 7 whp when combined with slip-on exhaust).
  • Rev Limiter Raised to 9800
  • Speed Limiter Raised to 120 MPH
  • Left Foot Braking enabled so you can operate the throttle and brake at the same time without going into limp mode
  • Race Start feature enables you to start in gear without pushing the brake
  • Cooling Fan Activation temps lowered 15° for a cooler running engine
  • Drive By Wire Pedal Map revised for more aggressive throttle response
  • Faster Starting for race applications with engine-off starts
  • Diagnostic Port Flash - your ECU does not have to be opened up or even removed from the machine!
 

Total Loss

Well-Known Member
I also did the heavier secondary clutch spring...I think that helped in the "smoothness" part of this also.
Car rips now for a NA car.
 

afortune46

Well-Known Member
Just for the folks reading -

Ecu tune is 7hp peak.
Header adds 12 peak rwhp 18 rwhp midrange (ecu tune or fuel controller is required due to the increased flow) over just the tune
Slip on yields very little - exhaust sound , and loss of weight.
 

novaman64

Well-Known Member
Just for the folks reading -

Ecu tune is 7hp peak.
Header adds 12 peak rwhp 18 rwhp midrange (ecu tune or fuel controller is required due to the increased flow) over just the tune
Slip on yields very little - exhaust sound , and loss of weight.
Everyone is throwing out different numbers. From talking with Todd at Speed SxS, just a ECU flash they are getting around 6hp, flash, clutch and their bolt on exhaust they are seeing around 10hp at the wheels. Add in a header to the equation and can see 12-15rwhp over bone stock...

Eventually I might put a header on, 2-5hp for $800 is a little steep. One of the "stock class" series I looked at allows for a slip on, but not header, which is why I went the route I did (not to mention there is weight saving with the muffler and not much if any with the header, and no kitty cat so the motor will run cooler). Not to mention its a super quick swap back to a OEM muffler if ever needed. The Trinity full system is a lot of bang for the buck, but has a proproetary header that only works with their muffler setup, which is the only reason I didnt go that route.
 

Total Loss

Well-Known Member
I have noticed MUCH cooler with my additions. (I did wrap the header also)
Hitting Glamis the beginning of Oct...that should be a good test. Usually 95-105 then.
 

novaman64

Well-Known Member
I have noticed MUCH cooler with my additions. (I did wrap the header also)
Hitting Glamis the beginning of Oct...that should be a good test. Usually 95-105 then.
Im planning on going out for a ride with a few buddies, going from Smith NV, to maybe Tonopah to see V2R. Should be nice and warm.
 

afortune46

Well-Known Member
Everyone is throwing out different numbers. From talking with Todd at Speed SxS, just a ECU flash they are getting around 6hp, flash, clutch and their bolt on exhaust they are seeing around 10hp at the wheels. Add in a header to the equation and can see 12-15rwhp over bone stock...

Eventually I might put a header on, 2-5hp for $800 is a little steep. One of the "stock class" series I looked at allows for a slip on, but not header, which is why I went the route I did (not to mention there is weight saving with the muffler and not much if any with the header, and no kitty cat so the motor will run cooler). Not to mention its a super quick swap back to a OEM muffler if ever needed. The Trinity full system is a lot of bang for the buck, but has a proproetary header that only works with their muffler setup, which is the only reason I didnt go that route.
This is the Dyno Chart that was done with a PCV prior to the ecu tune (done in the spring of 2018 using 87 octane fuel). 142 peak hp but where it makes the most power increase is at 5500 rpm where its around 18hp over stock. The ecu tune then throws a ton of ignition into the mix (hense the 91 octane requirement) and bumps it up even more.

WC_XX_Dyno.jpg



I have noticed MUCH cooler with my additions. (I did wrap the header also)
Hitting Glamis the beginning of Oct...that should be a good test. Usually 95-105 then.
If you guys want heat reduction in the engine compartment - remove the insulation around the rear sub frame and if you're not using it - remove the box and insulation under that. it will also yield substantial weight loss.

All and all With the Stage 2 kits , the ecu reflash, relocated radiators, and oil coolers we are rarely seeing anything over 185 degrees water temp. Its amazing what that little bit of insulation they wrap around the motor area holds in for heat.
 

novaman64

Well-Known Member
This is the Dyno Chart that was done with a PCV prior to the ecu tune (done in the spring of 2018 using 87 octane fuel). 142 peak hp but where it makes the most power increase is at 5500 rpm where its around 18hp over stock. The ecu tune then throws a ton of ignition into the mix (hense the 91 octane requirement) and bumps it up even more.

View attachment 203506
So I have never been a huge fan of chassis dynos. Motor dynos take a lot of the operator (loading the dyno, tire choice, drivetrain loss etc. out of the equation). That being said, the Speedwerx Stage 2 comes with a new helix and spring, Im wondering on the dyno how much of the low end gains you are seeing on a graph are due to clutch engagement rather than tuning/true motor performance improvements.
 

afortune46

Well-Known Member
Anytime you are doing power adders clutching changes will have to be done in order to show it correctly. in order accurately represent the data you'll need to watch your rpm and get it in the sweet spot or youll be past where peak power should be on a stock motor.

The other thing to watch is in the midwest - air density plays a HUGE roll in things . 20% humidity shifts will make you pull your hair out on a cvt - then if you throw a correction factor you're skewing the data. So when you're working on UTV stuff up here - its better as much as you can in a short window so the density isn't changing as much during the summer. At spring crandon - we were down 200 rpm , a few hours later when we raced and had removed the weight in the primary we were over revving. kind of like track conditions out west - in the morning the track will be loose because its wet and slick , by the afternoon you reduce weight in the primary because it tacks up and you have awesome grip to pull the motor down.
 

Total Loss

Well-Known Member
Im planning on going out for a ride with a few buddies, going from Smith NV, to maybe Tonopah to see V2R. Should be nice and warm.
I'll be chasing. Not sure on pits yet...we have 2 trucks leap frogging.
Look for my Toyota...I'll have the chase rack above the bed and probably 1 UTV spare.
 

novaman64

Well-Known Member
I'll be chasing. Not sure on pits yet...we have 2 trucks leap frogging.
Look for my Toyota...I'll have the chase rack above the bed and probably 1 UTV spare.
For what team? Let me know when you figure out the pitting, maybe I can roll through and say hi.
 

Total Loss

Well-Known Member
Anytime you are doing power adders clutching changes will have to be done in order to show it correctly. in order accurately represent the data you'll need to watch your rpm and get it in the sweet spot or youll be past where peak power should be on a stock motor.

The other thing to watch is in the midwest - air density plays a HUGE roll in things . 20% humidity shifts will make you pull your hair out on a cvt - then if you throw a correction factor you're skewing the data. So when you're working on UTV stuff up here - its better as much as you can in a short window so the density isn't changing as much during the summer. At spring crandon - we were down 200 rpm , a few hours later when we raced and had removed the weight in the primary we were over revving. kind of like track conditions out west - in the morning the track will be loose because its wet and slick , by the afternoon you reduce weight in the primary because it tacks up and you have awesome grip to pull the motor down.
I was just hanging on at full throttle and didn't really get a good look at the revs.
I will next time out. Did not bounce off the limiter though...and it was ripping.

All I did was go to the heavier secondary spring...that's all...still stock tires...2800 ft elevation.
 

Nessy

Well-Known Member
Didn't misunderstand anything.
I am fully aware of the HP gains with a header. I also gained (probably about 5) HP with the flash and cat removal. (up to 2019 HP rating of 130 from my 125)
Made the choice not to spend $800 on a header that might get me 2-3 more HP...not worth it to me.
The flash for me was more about the changes to the mapping, 2 foot driving, lower fan switch temps...etc.
My brother has the Speedwerx header...I know what they look like and perform as.

I think I know a little more about these rigs than you do.
I got to 84 mph now (dry lake 2800 ft) and I think it wanted to pull even more.

Wildcat XX ECU Programming
Standard Features For All Programs:
  • Reworked Fuel and Ignition Tables for Added Power and Performance using 91 Octane Pump Fuel
  • Horsepower Increased Over Stock (up to 7 whp when combined with slip-on exhaust).
  • Rev Limiter Raised to 9800
  • Speed Limiter Raised to 120 MPH
  • Left Foot Braking enabled so you can operate the throttle and brake at the same time without going into limp mode
  • Race Start feature enables you to start in gear without pushing the brake
  • Cooling Fan Activation temps lowered 15° for a cooler running engine
  • Drive By Wire Pedal Map revised for more aggressive throttle response
  • Faster Starting for race applications with engine-off starts
  • Diagnostic Port Flash - your ECU does not have to be opened up or even removed from the machine!

Lol, according to the experts you're wrong about the header and the slip on. I got 80 mph at 7700 elevation at 8700 rpm. Alba tune and header with stock muffler and clutch.
 
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