looking for class1/class 10 vehicle specs for custom build

jwolf

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Hi,

Yes I'm a nub here. But not to auto industry. (certified auto tech by trade) I've built many stock cars, drift cars, autocross cars etc. I love drifting and autocross....BUT I'm getting bored of it. I'm a farm kid at heart and always loved burning through the fields on motorcross bikes with huge rooster tails haha.

I decided after watching some ken block and his amazing gymkhana driving (wishing I was that good) I realise what I want to build. Ive always wanted a project I can build from start to end with my bare hands.

So my interest seems to be in buggies. I watched some videos, looked at some pictures. stumbled on this site looking for roll cage regulations etc. Seems I like class 1/2 1600. Im guessing the 1600 stands for 1600cc engine.

I checked on SCORE website trying to find info. I didnt find much, or atleast not what I was excpecting. I know from stock car racing theres regulations for just about everything.

SO IM LOOKING FOR A FEW THINGS. I need some to help me with these as I can't seem to find specifics on much.

1. I need someone to link me or show me where I can find all vehicle classifications. Or show me when I can see the all the differences between all vehicles classes.

2. I need somoene to show me where I can find every spec I need to build My buggy, from safty gear, to frame width and bar spacing specs, to engine rules.

I can build rank motors and Probably build one of these cars to the balls. But if its not regulation... it seems pointless.. even if I never race it in a sanctioned event.

any help would be muchly appreciated.

SCHOOL ME! haha

EDIT:
and can someone PLEASE give me the proper name for these "buggies". I know what a sandrail is... but they don't seem to be quiet the same...and they look very rough and lame. I also found pre-built sandrails... which dont interest me. I like huge jumps and going fast with lots of suspension... not being and inch off the dirt. If i wanted that Id go drive my 240 on the street HAHA
 

trent06

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I dont know if Score has an online rule book however here is the link to the other premier desert racing promoter and their online rule book, in BITD the 1600 class is called class 2000....

http://www.bitd.com/content/category/4/10/11/

Hope this helps....
 

rickf

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May I suggest you come to a few Baja races and volunteer for a team?
You'll learn a ton.
 

jwolf

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May I suggest you come to a few Baja races and volunteer for a team?
You'll learn a ton.
I would love to volunteer. I carry a lot of experience in a lot of areas. Im pretty sure Id adapt quickly to vehicle changes. I also seem to be quiet the person for creating new parts to make something better. No idea how I do it haha.

But how would I go about that type of thing? I would love to do something like that. But unsure how Id handle the desert heat. as I'm a canadian boy haha. hottest it get here is like mid 30's celcius.. sometimes low 40's.

and TRENT06 that link is muchly appreciated. I will spend the night reading it and will talk to my engineering buddy tmro :D
 

jwolf

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class 2000 has way to much VW for me to deal with. I hate volkswagon lol. Class 1000 sounds more like what I want.

Can anyone clarify build specs for the frame a bit more. I kind of understand what there talking about but I've never built a cage to such a specific spec other than loop and tube size etc.
 

PT9Baja

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There are some 10 cars in the classifieds. It would be in alot cheaper than a new build too the balls.
 

tapped1069

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Go on the snoreracing.net web-site. They got the complete rules and regulations for every class on the home page. You can download and print it out.
 

C.J. Hutchins

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There are some 10 cars in the classifieds. It would be in alot cheaper than a new build too the balls.
I couldn't agree more! And remember Class 10 (or as in the rule book class 1000) is an unlimited chasis class. Just make sure you meet the saftey requirements regarding tubing sizes and meet the motor requirement. Other than that start choppin and tacking some chrome moly together, ha ha
 

jwolf

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There are some 10 cars in the classifieds. It would be in alot cheaper than a new build too the balls.

well My plan is pretty much completely junk yard available parts. None of this pre-built, someone else built it stuff. I could build one for about 10g and be pretty much bullet proof. just like everything else I build. I always hate how people building things with lack of though or build quality etc (get this from working on cars day to day)

I want to be able so say oh no something broke. and be able to go to a parts store and walk away with something I need or can make work. rather than all one off someone built it crap that can't be fixed and you need 30 extras to finish a race.

did that make sense? lol. we've been brain storming stock parts of vehicles that would work. and vehicles that are very common and generally have a large after market worth of options. I just want to see other peoples stuff to see how they built it so I can look at it and make it better, and make it work for me
 

rickf

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well My plan is pretty much completely junk yard available parts. None of this pre-built, someone else built it stuff. I could build one for about 10g and be pretty much bullet proof. just like everything else I build. I always hate how people building things with lack of though or build quality etc (get this from working on cars day to day)

I want to be able so say oh no something broke. and be able to go to a parts store and walk away with something I need or can make work. rather than all one off someone built it crap that can't be fixed and you need 30 extras to finish a race.

did that make sense? lol. we've been brain storming stock parts of vehicles that would work. and vehicles that are very common and generally have a large after market worth of options. I just want to see other peoples stuff to see how they built it so I can look at it and make it better, and make it work for me
If you can build a bullet-proof class 10 for $10,000 (USD or CND) you will be able to make a very good living in off-road racing.

(p.s. Your safety items will probably smoke most of that budget)
 

BenStock

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I'm guessing it's probably not along the lines of what you're interested in but if you're looking to race buggies and a class with quite a few "stock" parts then maybe take a look at class 9. That would put you closer to your $10,000 mark but I have a feeling you're looking for something a little more high performance.

However, here's a link to the RDC class 9 forums: http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8

If you're looking to race trucks, then there are fairly stock classes to work with there as well.

I know there are some racers over in British Columbia that post on here that might be a closer driver for you to get some hands on experience. If I'm not mistaken, I believe there is a race series (or used to be) in the Kamloops area as well. Click here and scan through some of the people posting to see who might be from north of the border. I know it's still a ways from Regina to Kamloops but I'm guessing it's closer than say, Barstow.

There also is what appears to be a "grassroots" starting of a race west of Billings, Montana next month that might be something closer to home for you. Click here to check out the thread to that race.

Good luck!
 

jwolf

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If you can build a bullet-proof class 10 for $10,000 (USD or CND) you will be able to make a very good living in off-road racing.

(p.s. Your safety items will probably smoke most of that budget)

well safty stuff like fire suit, exstinguishers, helmets. I have most of that crap already for myself. From what I was reading on CTR rule link. Most of the safty equiptment is cheap and easily available. Only thing I don't have at the moment is spare buckets. 5 point harnesses etc I have kicking around or know people that have extra's.


the fuel cell is cheap. but the riging for no back flow and roll over stuff I would have to make or find though. I don't have any of that sitting around.

as for engine and chassis since It has to be US engines... and can't use any of my turbo JDM nissan engines i have laying around.

basically my choices are down to Honda D16Y7. sohc non vtec 16v. easy to find... large aftermarket. easy to up compression and build a bullet proof 10,000rpm engine for like 2-3G. and could prolly rig FWD trans to run high travel rear suspension, with custom equal length/strength CV shafts

OR

go with something like a toyota 4AGE which is already RWD. and has huge JDM aftermarket since they where USDM and JDM engines.

choosing a transmission and making it fit will be the interesting part. as it seems most class 10 run rear engine RWD. I didn't see any rule saying I could use mid engine RWD. could then use an MR2 driveline.. modded of course. and 90% of trannys I could choose from that are RWD or MR or convertable from fwd to RRWD, would handle 200hp all day.

I'm wishing right now Nissan had made a strong 1.8L or smaller MR or RWD car with a huge aftermarket to select from... but can't win all your battles haha

if i can make a mid engine forward facing driveline I could use a stock S13 (240sx R200) diff nissan used in pretty much everything. They'll take an immense beating. there small, light, very tough, and have huge aftermarket for clutch LSD, and VLSD setups. the tomei 2way in my car is loud, but never given up on me yet haha. CV axels would then be exremely easy to make fit, and make them handle A LOT more than 200hp.

transverse engine like honda would be easy as there large aftermarket allows for pretty much everything to be upgraded easyily and cheapily. LSD's and custom gear boxes are dime a dozen. just making it fit right would be interesting

I've been pondering brakes and spindles etc.

basically I'm still thinking

A. cheap
b. common everywhere
c. tough
d. aftermarket upgrades that bolt on.

so im thinking probably chevy truck front spindles. from 04-06 half ton 2wd and with 4.3L. they came factory with steering rack set up instead of BS system that always fails chevy normally uses. If i could then find pillow ball upper and lower ball joints. I could then just make control arms that fit the factory ball joint mounting. then its easy to fix/replace. and the brake size would not be a problem as it stops a 4,000lb truck etc, would be more than enough for 2500lb car. I could work out all the math but i dont feel like it right now haha. one nice thing about the chevy spindle is its factory designed for SLA suspension. so other than making sure balljoints are loaded right it should be fairly straight forward idea or changeable design for just about everything ive seen on these "buggies". I just really dont like king pin style spindles. i'm not sure about race grade ones. but old trucks with them suck to fix/ replace.

as for rear spindle driveline etc. I'm think factory RWD. I have a bunch of 240sx spindles kicking around. there a 4 link though... and I'm not sure how I could make shock mounts work on them with larg suspension travel angle changes. and there advantage would be hubs are already built for CV axels. I would like to steer away from solid rear axels. There tough yes. but all it takes is one wrong landing to bend something or break soemthing and be out of the race. atleats with independant you can carry a spare easily. I' also pondering something like a DSM(talon) awd rear suspension. With large lower control arms, and relatively simple 3 link setup.

shocks I've kind of been looking around. obviously unless I make it match something thats already production then it will need to be custom.

summit racing, or my parts guy in florida carry a lot of the stuff that's maditory. for safty, gauges, seating. and there prices are usually very reasonable.

the mild steel or 4130 chromemoly tube would be a bit tough to find around here though. Mild us fairly easy. but 4130 I would have to order from somewhere I'm sure. not to mention the attachment my welder will need. and someplace to heat treat chromemoly. Im a mild steel guy myself. absorbes impacts better instead of your body absorbing it.... kind of like a new age car and "crumple zones" HAHA
 
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jwolf

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and thanks to everyone who has posted links or offered info. muchly appreciated. I'm reading as fast as I can, and trying to learn as much as I can.

As per your suggestions of hands on race experience I'm trying to look into it. Would be a cool thing to see stuff in real life. not to mention some experience so I can go in with better ideas than a half baked balls deep one haha
 

BenStock

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BOR and VORRA are a couple of great series in northern Nevada that you might want to look into as well.

Only downside is their races are 2,000-2,500 km from Regina. But again, closer than SoCal or Southern Nevada.

EDIT: Just checked drive distance from Regina to Reno and Las Vegas and there is only around 25 km difference between the two cities according to Google maps... Sorry to veer of track but if you're building this vehicle to race, you have to take into account the costs/time you will endure with travel.
 
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jwolf

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BOR and VORRA are a couple of great series in northern Nevada that you might want to look into as well.

Only downside is their races are 2,000-2,500 km from Regina. But again, closer than SoCal or Southern Nevada.
thanx for the links. more reading to keep me busy lol
 

jwolf

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BOR and VORRA are a couple of great series in northern Nevada that you might want to look into as well.

Only downside is their races are 2,000-2,500 km from Regina. But again, closer than SoCal or Southern Nevada.

EDIT: Just checked drive distance from Regina to Reno and Las Vegas and there is only around 25 km difference between the two cities according to Google maps... Sorry to veer of track but if you're building this vehicle to race, you have to take into account the costs/time you will endure with travel.
ya, we've been talking about travel distances. Basically our plan to start with is get something built that we feel will work well. take it to dunes near by regina and drive the crap out of it, jumps, etc. until we start to break things. Then figure out what broke, why, and if it was something extreme is it worth over building for those "just incase" moments. After some of that, maybe enter some rallycross events and 300mile rally enduro (ment for cars) to push the vehicle in an actual "race condition" see how it performs in the nearby regions. keeps our trailer home distances short when we break haha. I'm sure it would take us better part of a year to test everything on the car including emergency breaks and what not. to get an idea of what we need as spares. tools, things like that. Maybe after that we would attempt and event and see what happens.

I wouldnt dream of building something crazy like this and trying to do a race right off the bat. I mean we could finish. or just be waisting our time completely with our entire design. I have confidence though haha. and maybe in a year or 2 Ill see you and others playing in the dirt haha.
 

bonehead1

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video showing what a 10 car is all about
 
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TreyP

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the mild steel or 4130 chromemoly tube would be a bit tough to find around here though. Mild us fairly easy. but 4130 I would have to order from somewhere I'm sure. not to mention the attachment my welder will need. and someplace to heat treat chromemoly. Im a mild steel guy myself. absorbes impacts better instead of your body absorbing it.... kind of like a new age car and "crumple zones" HAHA
Crumple Zones in an off road car= chassis failure. Unless you plan on building a new chassis after each race, don't crash or get hit, or just want to get injured or die. A road car and an off road car are two different animals.

$10K to build a 10 car? jajaja Maybe with Iron pipe and Rancho shocks. You won't be able to race it in any sanctioning body. Shocks alone will cost you $6K+ that's if you get a deal.

Alot of the stuff you are talking about puts you into Class 1. A whole new animal if you want to be slightly competitive, then add 10X to your budget.

Not trying to negative. But you need to look into what you are trying to get into before you get hurt trying. These aren't dune hoppers.
 
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