Lordstown Motors Electric Truck Racing San Felipe 250

Jim Glickenhaus

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Way faster than their pace should be? All that suspension and being passed in a straight up drag race by a class 11? They thought they could do at least 3/4 of the race on range and they barely made it 1/8 of the race before having a 2hr recharge. I didn’t want to talk crap before the race and not trying to talk crap now, sounds like 40 San Felipe miles with no hub motor failure is a big plus, however not achieving the actual goal. To me it just shows EV tech is still a LONG way off for our form of racing and I’m not convinced our whole world can operate on zero emission by 2035.
We're not a big believer of hub motors for our Zero Emission Hydrogen Boot pick up Truck. We're thinking about an electric motor/differential/ axle unit. We think a race range at The Baja 1000 can be 150 miles and Hydrogen Re-fueling can be done anywhere from a system we're also developing that can be stationary or portable and easily waiting in place along the entire course. We see re-fueling times being same as liquid fuel. We see Baja 1000 range at 25% of road range for our Boot Pick-Up 150 vs 600 miles. We think 14,000 GVWR BEV pickups will have similar ratios 40 race/160 road but will never re-fuel/recharge as quickly as Hydrogen EV's will. We're also developing a 4DR Zero Emission Hydrogen Boot that will have a 1200 mile road range. Our goal remains to run the Baja 1000 in 2022 with our Zero Emission Hydrogen Boot Pick up. With a 150 mile race range we see a speed similar to our Class 2 ICE 2020 Boot. We see our EVO'd 2021 Class 2 ICE Boot being mid Class one times. Man plans and the God's laugh but these are our thoughts and goals.
Congrats to Kyle. Great impressive effort!
 

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Bro_Gill

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What that says though is the truck is capable of going faster and still have those hub motors survive. Even 40 miles with that abuse says something about those motors. It's a good start.
Almost seems like you're on the payroll. I do not call 40 miles (the first 40 of this race) a good test. No rocks, none of the uphill washes, etc... And the speed was less than average at that. Maybe too much too soon, but my bet is w will never see them again... or the trucks in production. This is jus a smokescreen R&D program, IMO, for GM testing under another name so they don't have to answer tough questions about their chit failing.
 

jon coleman

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Almost seems like you're on the payroll. I do not call 40 miles (the first 40 of this race) a good test. No rocks, none of the uphill washes, etc... And the speed was less than average at that. Maybe too much too soon, but my bet is w will never see them again... or the trucks in production. This is jus a smokescreen R&D program, IMO, for GM testing under another name so they don't have to answer tough questions about their chit failing.
GM has allready sent spys over to try an get pics of Kyles 'chit box' racer
 

Rcamp99

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We're not a big believer of hub motors for our Zero Emission Hydrogen Boot pick up Truck. We're thinking about an electric motor/differential/ axle unit. We think a race range at The Baja 1000 can be 150 miles and Hydrogen Re-fueling can be done anywhere from a system we're also developing that can be stationary or portable and easily waiting in place along the entire course. We see re-fueling times being same as liquid fuel. We see Baja 1000 range at 25% of road range for our Boot Pick-Up 150 vs 600 miles. We think 14,000 GVWR BEV pickups will have similar ratios 40 race/160 road but will never re-fuel/recharge as quickly as Hydrogen EV's will. We're also developing a 4DR Zero Emission Hydrogen Boot that will have a 1200 mile road range. Our goal remains to run the Baja 1000 in 2022 with our Zero Emission Hydrogen Boot Pick up. With a 150 mile race range we see a speed similar to our Class 2 ICE 2020 Boot. We see our EVO'd 2021 Class 2 ICE Boot being mid Class one times. Man plans and the God's laugh but these are our thoughts and goals.
Congrats to Kyle. Great impressive effort!
I’m a huge fan of all that you guys are doing and love watching the progress and posts on IG. thanks for talking to all of us on here and keeping it real!
 

Wicked Al

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Almost seems like you're on the payroll. I do not call 40 miles (the first 40 of this race) a good test. No rocks, none of the uphill washes, etc... And the speed was less than average at that. Maybe too much too soon, but my bet is w will never see them again... or the trucks in production. This is jus a smokescreen R&D program, IMO, for GM testing under another name so they don't have to answer tough questions about their chit failing.
Payroll, let me know when my check arrives! :D

I tend to be an optimist and look for the benefits and progress as opposed to the woe is me perspective. It's easy to find fault, it's much more difficult to find effective solutions. My biggest concern with this vehicle has nothing to do with it finishing, it was the durability of the hub motors. That is new technology and offroad racing, even at a lighter pace, is demanding of it. When you look at use cases, heavy hauling and offroad racing are at the extreme right of the curve whereas EV technology is still very much left of center...this is pushing it, failure should be expected. It is not about failing, it is about how far and how fast. This becomes the metric for the next ride. I fully expect the next time they do this...assuming they do this, they will do much much better. Nothing like practical experience to teach.
 

Total Loss

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Waste of time and money IMO.

Race was great though...
Saw the Lordstown RC car leave the line and predicted 20 miles...they exceeded my expectations.
 

cynicwanderer

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Way faster than their pace should be? All that suspension and being passed in a straight up drag race by a class 11? They thought they could do at least 3/4 of the race on range and they barely made it 1/8 of the race before having a 2hr recharge. I didn’t want to talk crap before the race and not trying to talk crap now, sounds like 40 San Felipe miles with no hub motor failure is a big plus, however not achieving the actual goal. To me it just shows EV tech is still a LONG way off for our form of racing and I’m not convinced our whole world can operate on zero emission by 2035.
because energy consumption is non-linear the faster you go. so going faster can easily blow your energy budget. even if you go from 20 to 30MPH, you might be using more than double the power and get half the range. there are a lot of losses, the losses like the efficiency of the system (why you need to cool the batteries and motor. doubling the current causes square power loss in conductors/motor drives), losses from aero (not a big deal at 20), also pushing the suspension off road uses energy. basically, all the energy that the shocks absorb (and turn into heat) comes from the engine pushing it over the terrain. there is also rolling resistance, i.e. all the energy that gets turned into heat in the tires. the later exist in other vehicles, but not as critical because in order to make EV practical you really have to dig for efficiency.

the egg heads who worked on this projects would have worked out the pace they would need to go in order to have the range to make to your schedule recharge/battery change stop, the time it takes to charge or replace the pack, with some margin to make sure you finish the race under time and make it to the next charge point. also, figured into this, is the optimal charge time. you don't necessarily want to charge the pack to 100% to minimize your trip time. your Telsa does all this for you when you plan a cross country trip. it chooses the charging stations along the way, and schedules how long to charge. it then tells you the optimum speed to make it to the next charge point. if you decide to lead foot to pass someone in order to impress your GF, you might actually not make it to the next charge point. in EVs it's really is that critical. every kWH is precious.

I think it would have been much more impressive to show that the hub motors can survive the whole race at some lower speed, than just the first 40miles at 30. they have some really cool advantages, like up to three of them can fail and you can still limp along. this is assuming that showing off the technology was the objective.

by looking at the tracking history I can see that Kyle understands all this. his speed was very steady, except for downhills and technical sections and good enough to finish on time, at least until later when there were technical problems. he and his team have the advantage of having off road EV experience and knowing the range and how speed effects it and the discipline of implementing the strategy. it was a classic rookie move to get intimidated by getting passed by Class11s. EVs are not ready to mess with Class11.
 

jon coleman

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mess with 11s?, nobodys ready to....( sorta looking to read what failed on the chit box racer, any word??, is it a 50 cent part deal not a major technical ' flaw', ie will we see Kyle at the 500??
 

cynicwanderer

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mess with 11s?, nobodys ready to....( sorta looking to read what failed on the chit box racer, any word??, is it a 50 cent part deal not a major technical ' flaw', ie will we see Kyle at the 500??
yeah, I'm really curious too... here is where 11 shines... every team has pretty much most of the parts for a Class11 in their parts truck, and since most of the parts are basically same, they can and will share sometimes. in a pinch, you can probably find a junk yard or someone who has one in their yard.
 

jon coleman

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yeah, I'm really curious too... here is where 11 shines... every team has pretty much most of the parts for a Class11 in their parts truck, and since most of the parts are basically same, they can and will share sometimes. in a pinch, you can probably find a junk yard or someone who has one in their yard.
i miss my 64 baja bug, Anything was ' fixxable' for next to nothing!
 

AZ7000'

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Like I posted before, range on pavement without spinning is way different then spinning in the dirt, sand, and washes. Guessing why the TT's get 2-3MPH
 

Bro_Gill

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Payroll, let me know when my check arrives! :D

I tend to be an optimist and look for the benefits and progress as opposed to the woe is me perspective. It's easy to find fault, it's much more difficult to find effective solutions. My biggest concern with this vehicle has nothing to do with it finishing, it was the durability of the hub motors. That is new technology and offroad racing, even at a lighter pace, is demanding of it. When you look at use cases, heavy hauling and offroad racing are at the extreme right of the curve whereas EV technology is still very much left of center...this is pushing it, failure should be expected. It is not about failing, it is about how far and how fast. This becomes the metric for the next ride. I fully expect the next time they do this...assuming they do this, they will do much much better. Nothing like practical experience to teach.
Hub motors are not new and are not exotic. They have been hauling massive loads for decades. While putting them in an off road race vehicle may be 'new', is it the right idea? Real world testing for something like this is to put a 1 ton bale of hay in the back and drive farm roads for 100 miles and see how it does. This was a failed publicity stunt. They jumped the shark with this and I bet more than 10 people involved told them this ahead of doing it. How did a Le Mans EV make it so far???
 

JDDurfey

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I spoke with the Lordstown folks at the RM40 pit. Very open and happy to talk about the project. They wanted to test the durability and what better place than San Felipe? I think I understood their range was a fraction of what they were expecting, like 1/2 or 1/4. Generator was bad ass, PTO driven 170kw I believe. Not that they needed my .02 as they had Brenthal on board but I suggested going up Azufre was no mans land as far as recovery or recharging goes. I think I read Fish was all butt hurt when they went straight to RM100, my guess is they wanted some more seat time while they were there?
So because the threw this program together and were not prepared or knowledgeable about the race course they should be allowed to cut off 60 miles of it? Nice guys or not, that isn't cool by most people's standards.

If they could have gone a full 50 miles they could have made it through Azufre and back around for a recharge, but shoulda, coulda, woulda...
 

Jim Glickenhaus

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So because the threw this program together and were not prepared or knowledgeable about the race course they should be allowed to cut off 60 miles of it? Nice guys or not, that isn't cool by most people's standards.

If they could have gone a full 50 miles they could have made it through Azufre and back around for a recharge, but shoulda, coulda, woulda...
When the flag drops the Bullshit Stops:
 

E motorsports

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When the flag drops the Bullshit Stops:
Copying this from Lordstown's official response for those that might night have seen it.


As an innovation driven company committed to building the first and best full-size EV pickup truck, pushing the envelope of what is possible is core to our DNA. The SCORE San Felipe 250 provided just that type of opportunity and we are incredibly proud to have entered and competed, and for the validating feedback we obtained on so many aspects of the vehicle.


We knew this was a grueling environment and would push us. We successfully navigated the extreme conditions over the first 40-mile leg of the race with all of our mechanicals meeting or exceeding our expectations. While we anticipated significantly higher energy demand from this environment – the reality of the terrain proved to be even more demanding.


During the race, when we reached the first charging stop, we analyzed the drive data, and concluded our energy usage was much more intensive than we had modeled. In our pre-race estimates, we assumed a 3X energy usage compared to normal road conditions at 200 ft. elevation. Following stage 1, however, our data showed consumption at 4 times the normal level. As we recharged for stage 2, we concluded that the next leg – more than 65 miles at net 1750 ft. elevation – could result in our vehicle stopping in the middle of mountainous terrain with no viable or accessible charging options, so we decided not to send the vehicle back out on the course. While we were done racing for the day, we continued to demonstrate the vehicle’s capabilities through an additional 10 miles of off-course driving, which only added to the insights and feedback we generated during the race.


Overall, we were very pleased with the vehicle’s performance and we generated extensive feedback that we will continue to assess in the weeks ahead, including:


-Our components can stand up to the harshest environment and G forces
-Our in-wheel hub motors performed great and demonstrated superior traction
-Our drivetrain and battery pack took the beatings dished out by the grueling conditions and stood up to the test
-Our frame stood up to the conditions without any issues
-Our thermal management system kept all components cool despite the vehicle pulling much more energy than anticipated
-Driving in deep sand, with the required larger tires, required more energy than we forecasted
-Our truck completed the stage fully intact, operationally sound and is now headed back home


We tip our cap to Baja and the tough terrain and we look forward to next year. We expected to be pushed to the limit and we were not disappointed. We will continue to push our vehicle and our team to the limits because that is what it takes to successfully develop the level of market-changing innovation to which we are committed.
 

Tube ride

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They could have delivered free grocery’s around the Navajo nation covered more dirt miles and actually did something worthwhile to talk about. Lordstown has like 2 huge class actions from investors , three other big lawsuits about stolen infotainment systems, stolen intellectual property with the batteries, the hub motors are owned and licensed by a company out of Ljubljana Slovenia . You do not have to research Steve Burns too deep to see he is a shady businessman .
 
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