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Lucas Oil Off-Road Racing Series Pro-Lite LS3 Sealed Engine Program Guidelines

Dirty*

Well-Known Member
Hello Racers and Industry - Please see updated info below.

I just wanted to pass the info along. Thanks

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Link:
http://www.lucasoiloffroad.com/images/documents/2017/Pro-Lite-LS3-engine-program-guidelines-1-5-2017 final.pdf

Lucas Oil Off-Road Racing Series Pro-Lite LS3 Sealed Engine Program Guidelines 1-5-2017

To all Pro-Lite teams in effort to build our sport and reduce overall cost of completion we have been working on a spec low cost engine program that we are ready to roll out to teams for the start of the 2017 season and for the new engines to be phased in over some time. That means we will allow the use of the new controlled engine program immediately to be used in competition for the 2017 season in conjunction with the existing V8 engine program in existence for the past seasons. LS3 engine kits are available for order now and can be delivered to teams within a 2 week window. Please see below for more information on the process and order information. You will have to order your engine kit from LOORRS tech and the wire loom and ECU from MOTEC directly.

We are going to allow the use of the new engine package and through the electronics package limit the power output to be competitive to the current engines being used in Pro-Lite. We have already spent lots of time with the team at MoTec and time on the engine dyno to validate and match power output. We feel that we have a good handle on that and can still make adjustments as needed to ensure competition levels are even. All teams would have the option to continue to use the current engine package through the phase in period so no one would be force to spend money until they are ready or until the current engine is worn out and needs replacement.

In this new program engines would not be permitted to be sent to any engine builders to be re-built. When one is worn out or fails it would be retired and returned to LOORRS to have the seals removed and torn apart to ensure nothing was changed or cheated in any way. Upon tear down and removal of the seals the engine may be returned to the team for their final use or disposal outside of the series.

Below is a summary of how the plan would work in structure so you can see the concept and regulations that would surround the program. We have not set any solid dates yet as to when the phase in period would end but we anticipate a year or so to do it should be enough time.

  1. All LOORRS OEM Production Engine (LOPE) packages must come from LOORRS and be sealed by LOORRS.

  2. Any team is only permitted to have 2 LOPE engines checked out to a team per truck being raced at any

    given time. One in the truck and one spare.

  3. Engines will be sold to teams through LOORRS only on a check in and check out basis. Teams will pay for an engine and before any team can receive an additional engine the team must return an engine for the exchange. Pre-payment registration will be required and done through LOORRS registration staff (Katie Murvihill). Engines may be ordered by contacting the Tech Director Bill Savage at 760-594-1037 or email at Tech@LucasOilOffRoad.com Payment must be made in full to LOORRS prior to receiving an engine package. Teams may register with LOORRS to keep a payment method on file in the event of an emergency where a replacement engine is needed at the track. Without payment in advance no engines may be provided even track side. Complete sealed engine kit will cost $8,929.12 complete. This does not include accessory drive (pully kit), harmonic balancer kit, power steering pump or mount, alternator or mount, oil pressure accumulator, oil filter adapter, external plumbing, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump.

Contact LOORRS tech for further information.

  1. No engines may be taken apart or rebuilt for any reason by any team or any builder. LOORRS may repair engine and re-seal at its sole discretion.

  2. Teams will be limited to purchasing a maximum of 3 engines per race season unless permitted by LOORRS due to special circumstances and proven hard part failures. This will be done at the sole discretion of LOORRS. Multiple car teams may have additional restrictions to these purchase rules to limit added expenses.

  3. No warranty is issued on any engine by LOORRS for any reason.

  4. Approved LOPE Engine package will be ONLY the following:
a. GM LS3 sealed engine kit with electronics package from MoTeC acquired from LOORRS tech. No other engines permitted for any reason.

  1. Teams are not permitted to change any external components on the engine package. This includes but is not limited to upper and lower intake, throttle bodies, fuel injectors, fuel rails, diameter of pullies on crank or accessories, coils, water pumps, valve covers, timing chain covers, oil pan, engine main wire loom, stock exhaust manifolds. No component may be changed unless specifically allowed herein.

  2. The following harmonic balancer parts are allowed and can be used as needed to accommodate any accessory drive configuration needed to work with Power Steering pump, alternator, and water pump drive. Hub: ATI pn 916430M, Damper body: ATI pn 917071, ATI pn 917073, ATI pn 917030, ATI pn 917070 Bolt pack: ATI pn 950200 Crank bolt: ARP ATI pn 951503

  3. Only use of mandated MoTec LOORRS approved ECU and wire loom is permitted and the firmware in ECU will be locked down. Wire loom and ECU packages can be ordered directly from MOTEC. Contact Drake Devore at drake@motec.com for orders. Complete MOTEC system will cost $5,980.00 direct from MOTEC. See attached document for additional information or contact Drake Devore at MOTEC for more information. ECU The ECU is a MoTeC M130 with software developed specifically for LOORRS Pro Lite. Each system will also come with a LTC-D which is a dual exhaust lambda to can. Wiring The following harnesses will be delivered with each system: Chassis – 3800-EC008 Engine – 3800-EE007 Purchase/Delivery Systems must be purchased from: MoTeC Systems East 169-5 Gasoline Alley Mooresville, NC 28117 704-799-3800. All harnesses are built to order and take up to 6-8 weeks to complete. System price does not include shipping. Support MoTeC will have support personnel present at each event to provide technical support. LOORRSSupport@motec.com has been created for technical support questions.

  4. System may be connected to existing digital dash units for normal monitoring and functions as most of the current trucks have so long as the digital dash complies with the data collection rules

  5. LOORRS will have access to data port on ECU at any time to pull data out of the vehicle.

  6. LOORRS will have the ability to exchange ECU with team at any time deemed necessary.

  7. Fly by wire throttle pedal must be maintained from the stock configuration and parts provided with engine kit.

  8. Teams must retain factory exhaust manifolds but may use any exhaust so long as it meets the rest of the rules for the class

  9. Teams may use any alternator

  10. Teams may use any power steering pump

  11. Teams may use any air cleaner configuration and filter and upper intake section may be installed forward facing or reverse facing to assist in front drive accessory mounting

  12. No add on electronic components or tuners permitted

  13. Use of external pressurized oil reservoir will be mandatory.

  14. Engines will have oil filter adapter installed to allow for external oil cooler and filter installation.
 
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down4glamis

Well-Known Member
Wow! This sounds pretty bad ass! I wonder how it will go this year. Purchasing it FROM LOORS makes it seem that much more controlled compared to other series..
 

Djwc406

Member
I think Lucas needs to keep an open mind about pulley sizes and water pumps. These engines with stock water pumps were never meant to race all day at close to red line. There may be some issues that may need to be addressed.

Also i'm not sure if I would want to run this engine just yet. As soon as somebody does well with it, some one will cry to Lucas and they might turn it down and take power away. Because its all about the engine the truck and driver have nothing to do with it right lol...
 
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dbq61537

Well-Known Member
I have a couple of questions...

1: Does this mean that a team can only run the GM engine in the future, such as the 2018 season.

2: What if, a team has several...Ford, Dodge, etc...motors in their shop? Are these motors now, distressed merchandise? Or will there be a grandfather clause?

3: What if a team has more than one truck? Will still be held to the two engine rule...or will they be able to put a motor, designated for team truck B, in team truck A?

4: Lastly...Is it just me, or does this set of rules, sound dangerously close to Spec Racing?

I'm not a fan of Spec Racing. My experience, and historical speaking, Spec Racing isn't always cheaper racing. Spec Racers will look for an advantage in other areas of the vehicle...titanium, carbon fiber, etc...will cause costs to rise in other areas.


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CYS Motorsports

Well-Known Member
Is everybody out west essentially running the Dodge motor like they are out here? The spec motor was good initially but the Dodge motor, and then all the rebuilding BS made it out of control, when compared to the GM and Ford motors.

Maybe this will be a more viable option, I hope it works out.

As far as sounding like spec racing, the chassis have been "spec" for a long time using the same suspension geometry points. If everybody does go with this motor, there are still plenty of differences between all the trucks, that it would be very hard to consider it spec.
 

PDANK Racing

Well-Known Member
What is the point of this engine program, if it isn't much cheaper that current rules. On top of that, now you can't rebuild the motor, so replacement cost is now at least doubled. Almost $6k for the ECU and wiring harness? How does that fit into making the engine package cheaper? Seriously, who TF comes up with this crap? Did they even look at what the current engines cost?

o_O
 

justafan

Well-Known Member
Somethings just make your head explode.

Sealed engine: $8929.12 complete...
Wiring harness: $5980

Kinda like the guy selling a roller that doesn't have wheels and/or tires. Can't "roll" without them. Can't "complete" without the system to run it.

The class is the largest field, let's make a major change, piss everyone off and paper weight who know's how many engines. Off-road racing continues to amaze me with the ways they find to kill themselves.

If you want to save the money, go back to what it was to begin with. Actual crate engines no more no less. GM 604 IMCA crate only. Don't open it to another make. Thats the only way to be "cheap". Don't touch it. Don't open the rules.
 

Shanem

New Member
I was told the motors are straight from gm but the only good thing outta this would be Fuel injection.
 

Scott_AZ

Well-Known Member
Somethings just make your head explode.

Sealed engine: $8929.12 complete...
Wiring harness: $5980

Kinda like the guy selling a roller that doesn't have wheels and/or tires. Can't "roll" without them. Can't "complete" without the system to run it.

The class is the largest field, let's make a major change, piss everyone off and paper weight who know's how many engines. Off-road racing continues to amaze me with the ways they find to kill themselves.

If you want to save the money, go back to what it was to begin with. Actual crate engines no more no less. GM 604 IMCA crate only. Don't open it to another make. Thats the only way to be "cheap". Don't touch it. Don't open the rules.

Even @ $15k, you're still half to a third of the 4 cyl programs used to cost at the top. You'd also hope a crate engine would last most or all of a season instead of a few races for refresh like the 4cyl. I think the only thing that would make the changes easier to swallow would be a season notice to the coming changes so teams can scrape up the coin to adjust. I remember those 4 cyl prolite races where the guy in first goes "up in smoke" with one or two laps left. That doesn't happen anymore...

It will be interesting to see the coyote vs LS3 vs LT1 vs ecoboost in crate racing across all motorsports.
 

dbq61537

Well-Known Member
Even @ $15k, you're still half to a third of the 4 cyl programs used to cost at the top. You'd also hope a crate engine would last most or all of a season instead of a few races for refresh like the 4cyl. I think the only thing that would make the changes easier to swallow would be a season notice to the coming changes so teams can scrape up the coin to adjust. I remember those 4 cyl prolite races where the guy in first goes "up in smoke" with one or two laps left. That doesn't happen anymore...

It will be interesting to see the coyote vs LS3 vs LT1 vs ecoboost in crate racing across all motorsports.
Good point Scott.

But to go further, weren't the current engine rules costing, 1/3 to half as much as the 4 bangers?

The whole point of the sealed V8 program, was to create an engine to make it cost effective to race...thus the field grew, and more racers ran the full season. Many of the racers I've talked to said, that they were getting a full season, or more out of a motor, before rebuild.

Maybe I'm crazy...though they say I'm mad, at the university...all signs point to a successful engine program. The current V8 program was working...wasn't it...or is there info that's not getting to the general fan/racer/media, that only the insiders have?

Since all signs say the Program, ain't broke...why are they fixing it?

Or are the real answers, written in green...I.E. GM writing a check in green ink?


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Scott_AZ

Well-Known Member
**100% pure speculation here** but my guess is they're getting ready to let the raptor motor in these trucks or something completely new and unknown prepping for the new ranger/bronco announced recently. The LS3 has more power potential than the 604 motors which means they're kicking the power up across the board... ecoboost?
 

vegasloki

Well-Known Member
4: Lastly...Is it just me, or does this set of rules, sound dangerously close to Spec Racing?

I'm not a fan of Spec Racing. My experience, and historical speaking, Spec Racing isn't always cheaper racing. Spec Racers will look for an advantage in other areas of the vehicle...titanium, carbon fiber, etc...will cause costs to rise in other areas.
It's a spec engine package for people that don't want to manage an engine program and don't want to pay for a high powered lease. Plus there are always some knuckleheads out there that think no matter why they lose, it's the engine's fault. I don't see them dropping the boom on an all sealed motor class without a good deal of notice, certainly not by 2018.

I don't know about PL but in other forms I've raced for that kind of performance if you can make the first package last all year and still be stout in performance, that's going to be cheaper than an engine lease. Even in shifter karts a top lease could be $10-15k/season with support. Some circle track guys I ran with were spending $30k plus on the local/regional level. The spec (non sealed, you can work on it) entry level Nascar touring package (trucks, K&N, modifieds) is about $40k once you dress it but it uses a spec carb and can expect 1500 miles out of it.. You can build one with the spec parts for about $30k. To compare, $15k for a sealed LS, harness and computer isn't a bad deal. The bummer is not being able to rebuild and have the engine resealed. That means any even slight issue in cooling or oiling may cost $9k for something that could be fixed and resealed for a lot less.

Spec racing isn't so much about saving money as it is performance equalization. Indeed the spec stuff I've raced was always more expensive or at least as expensive as if I'd run my own program. And in some cases more of a hassle, like not being able to break a seal and look in your short block.
 

TornadoKen

New Member
Its not just the purchase price. Agreed 15k for one is not bad. Where the costly part comes in is when the series already has have 15-20 competitive trucks, all with 2 engines. And maybe Im out of the loop but correct me if Im wrong I thought every available engine package won a race this year? Most equally competitive year yet. Now each team is going to need to purchase 2 new engines 2 wiring harnesses. To rub salt into the wound Now those pre 2017 engines are nothing but paperweights. (Saw this with the 4cl programs) On top of the equipment costs All the current 2016 trucks just lost at least 20k in value on the resale market. OUCH! Add in the cost to remount motors/headers/plumbing if needed. Add in the cost of all new converters and then the cost of additional test time needed to try to be competitive. So the "dust off you're race car and come play" does not financially make sense if you can no longer feel like you can be competitive with the assets you currently have.

Next question is what happens if you loose cooling fans and need just simple head gaskets. Boom hit with another 9k because you can't have the engines rebuilt. When you actually do the hard math (that is if you can) this a huge hit to the wallets of all the current racers and will not only drive more racers out of this class but raise even more suspicion to the current situation of foul play among certain tech officials who would have access or control to ecu programming. Why are they trying to fix something that is not broken. Any form of racing that has gone to a spec program has eventually failed. They should take note. What it sounds like to me the series wants to take less responsibility for the tech department (Whether they can not afford it or can not find the people with the knowledge) and focus more on being more of a marketing company instead of a race promoter. If they would do the correct job in tech-ing the motors and trans there would be no discussion of cheating or going to spec engines. Ill guarantee this is all because some mid pack guys are complaining why they are getting beat. Its called do your homework because spec engine or not the top guys will find a way to stay on top.
 

Dirty*

Well-Known Member
Passing the info incase you haven't already seen this. Thanks


All LOORRS Teams,


I am reminding everyone that we have not mandated a time, nor do we have a time in mind, with regards to the mandated use of EFI in Pro2 - Pro4 or the Lucas OEM ProLite Engine (LOPE LS3) ProLite Engine platform. The stated rule DOES allow for the approved LOPE LS3 engine and/or EFI engine systems to compete in 2017. It DOES NOT state when these rules become mandatory. You can continue to use your current engine platform, as stated in some of the handouts that were given to the teams in prior meetings.



We also mentioned this in our rulebook - in the last two sentences, under PRT-25 Fuel Injection - which states the following to the Pro 2 and Pro 4 Teams;

All teams that choose to run a Carburetor will be required to run a LOORRS approved catch can system for fire safety. LOORRS is not implementing a program to phase out carburetors at this time. The ProLite Rules state that; All teams would have the option to continue to use the current engine package through the phase in period so no one would be forced to spend money until they are ready or until the current engine is worn out and needs replacement. Again, we want to insure everyone that there are no timelines established as to when you must change over to any form of these approved engines or systems.



Teams, please share your thoughts or concerns with me at anytime. Everyone that has taken the time to speak directly with me concerning the implementation of these new rules has been able to leave our conversation with the correct understanding of our intentions. Please go out and dust off your race trucks and come have some fun and enjoy everything that Lucas Oil and our Team Lucas partners provide for the short course community. Also, please help us to share some news. The 2017 TV airings will reflect as much and in some cases, more Television airings, as we head into the new season. We are going to make this especially true, with regards to the single day shows at Wild West Motorsports Park and Glen Helen Raceway Park. The award winning staff at Lucas Oil Studios is working hard to come up with some really creative shows that will increase team and sponsor exposure at all LOORRS events.



We offer our sincere thanks to every team within LOORRS.



Sincerely,

Ritchie Lewis
Series Director - Lucas Oil Off Road Racing Series

951-532-2503 cell

swampracer@gmail.com

ritchie@lucasoiloffroad.com

www.lucasoiloffroad.com
 

dbq61537

Well-Known Member
Passing the info incase you haven't already seen this...


I am reminding everyone that we have not mandated a time, nor do we have a time in mind, with regards to the mandated use of EFI in Pro2 - Pro4 or the Lucas OEM ProLite Engine (LOPE LS3) ProLite Engine platform. The stated rule DOES allow for the approved LOPE LS3 engine and/or EFI engine systems to compete in 2017. It DOES NOT state when these rules become mandatory. You can continue to use your current engine platform, as stated in some of the handouts that were given to the teams in prior meetings.

The ProLite Rules state that; All teams would have the option to continue to use the current engine package through the phase in period so no one would be forced to spend money until they are ready or until the current engine is worn out and needs replacement. Again, we want to insure everyone that there are no timelines established as to when you must change over to any form of these approved engines or systems.

...
The key is the passage...
"...or until the current engine is worn out and needs replacement."

This may mean that a team can use their current engine, that adhered to the old rules, until said time that it would need a full rebuild. And then they will need to move to the new formula.

My understanding of the rules, for the old package, is that when a team sends a motor in to a "certified" rebuilder, that the rebuilder in question must report the rebuild, to the series in question.

At least that's the way I understand the rules and the new package rules.


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dbq61537

Well-Known Member
Some how I accidentally put what I was trying to say, as coming from dirty...

Sorry man

The second part, the personal interpretation of the rules, was from me.

I accidentally, erased the end quote when I, getting the part I wanted.

My part starts with, "The key passage...


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Djwc406

Member
Race day is getting close. There should be four trucks with this engine we will see how it goes. Hopefully lucas can get the problems fixed and the power levels where they need to be.
 
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