MDR Settlement

Slippery P

Well-Known Member
Well I've been watching the madness on this thread since yesterday and found it hard to ignore some of (most of them) the uniformed post. Let me start by saying that I feel really bad for all the familys of the deceased and the injured. For anybody to say "it makes me sick" or "they are a bunch of bottom feeders" or " free food line" you are very mistaken and what gives you the right to judge another person like that. I have gotten to know a couple of the parents that lost their children and let me say they are not bottom feeders and probably pay more in taxes then most of you make. So I wouldn't call them bottom feeders. I have also learned a lot about the lawsuit since getting to know these people. The facts are that MDR and BLM were extremely negligent in letting this crash happen (notice I don't use the word accident, because accidents cant be prevented, crashes can). Did you know that the 1 BLM ranger (there was supposed to be 6 or 7)was at the crash site an hour before the race started? And that same guy admitting seeing that there were no fences and the crowd was too close to the race course. Did you know that he did nothing to help with the situation? don't you think he could of got on his loud speaker and told the people they were too close to the race course and the race could not start until they move. You know what, every body would of moved so the race could start if he would of just said something. Did you know that the 1 ranger left the rock-pile and drove straight to the start line (50 minutes before start of the race) and do you know that he said NOTHING to MDR that he could not start the race until the crowd was moved back. THAT MY FRIEND IS CALLED NEGLIGENCE. and is the basis of the case. This guy had the responsibility to monitor the safety of the race and for the safety of the crowd and to make sure that ALL procedures set forthe in the permit are ALL followed.
Did you know that there was no ambulance on site as the permit required. The reason this is important is because the helicopters could not be dispatched until someone with authority was there to dispatch them. That delayed the dispatch of the helicopters by 45 minutes and that 45 minutes could of possibly saved some lives (ever heard of the golden hour).? The helicopters were running and ready to fly but couldn't until they were dispatched. Is that the spectators fault?
The federal government has immunity from lawsuits in most cases. It dates back hundreds of years ago to the King and Queen days in America. (You cant sue the King). Well this case went in front of the most conservative judge the government could find and even this judge could not rule for the government after seeing all the negligence this ranger had committed. They tried to hide behind the discretionary decision immunity law and since this ranger did NOTHING to eliminate the hazard it means he made NO decision which opened the government up to liability. MDR was found to be mainly at fault and had settled more then a year ago.
Some of you have tried to blame this on the spectators. Now you know those people just stood where everybody else was standing. If there was sufficient fencing and signage that had been done in previous years, all this would be is a simple roll over crash with nobody hurt. You cant possibly blame those deceased and injured for this crash.
Remember these people that were killed and injured are your friends and you were standing next to them at various races. They were not drunken idiots like some of you have said. They were not trying to reach out and touch the cars and trucks while they were racing. You know that.
Did you also know that the driver is suing MDR and the government? Now that is a frivolous lawsuit if I've ever seen one. If you are bashing the family's that lost their children, what about the driver that is suing MDR and Feds? Why are you not saying anything about that lawsuit? I know why, Its the PACK mentality I see on this thread and many others on this site.

I know you guys will post all kind of negative post but I really don't care because most of you are uniformed and know nothing about the case and what came out in the case. All you want to do is blast anybody for anything. Ive seen it for years on this site.

Good Luck and see you in the desert in AZ.
Let me ask you this, if your kid was jumping off a city bridge because everyone else was doing it and got hurt or killed. Would you then sue the city because there was no sign posted or city official standing there saying do not jump off this bridge? I had personal friends there at the rock pile that night some of which were friends with some of those who died that night. They told them multiple times not to stand there because it was dangerous. Did they listen? Nope, and that was there choice as free americans. Thats what makes this country so great is that we have freedoms, freedom to make your own choices but when the consequences of those choices come down the pipe you now have to be willing to take responsibility for those choices. You want to talk about negligence how about the negligence on the parents part for not teaching their kids to stay out of harms way becuase life is a precious thing and poor desicions could end up in death? Everyone says MDR could have done this or that, BLM could have done this or that right down to the point of corraling everyone and policing them like a bunch of cattle which nobody wants yet nobody wants to take resposibility for their own actions anymore. Bottom line common sense and responsibilty is something that doesnt exist anymore.
 

dan200

#BSF200
This is for the people who continue to use the "spilling a hot cup of coffee" and suing for millions.
the general public was quick to judge that case without really looking into the case and evidence...

Did you know previously there were nearly 700 complaints on the books about people getting burned by mcdonalds coffee? They knew what they were selling thru a window was dangerous and undrinkable... And that the 79 yr old woman was only seeking money to make up the balance due after medicaid paid their portion of the bills? (A jury awarded her that money which was later reduced and the woman had to sign a gag order to be paid)

the media gamed all of us on the hot coffee case and the general public is very under informed on what really happened.

Did you ever see the pictures of those burns from that lawsuit?

heres a link... WARNING...... FUGGIN GROSS!!!

http://harmfuldruginfocenter.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/mcdonalds.jpg

Anyway, check the video at this link. It should change your perception of that case...

http://retroreport.org/taking-the-lid-off-the-mcdonalds-coffee-case/
 

down4glamis

Well-Known Member
the general public was quick to judge that case without really looking into the case and evidence...

Did you know previously there were nearly 700 complaints on the books about people getting burned by mcdonalds coffee? They knew what they were selling thru a window was dangerous and undrinkable... And that the 79 yr old woman was only seeking money to make up the balance due after medicaid paid their portion of the bills? (A jury awarded her that money which was later reduced and the woman had to sign a gag order to be paid)

the media gamed all of us on the hot coffee case and the general public is very under informed on what really happened.

Did you ever see the pictures of those burns from that lawsuit?

heres a link... WARNING...... FUGGIN GROSS!!!

http://harmfuldruginfocenter.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/mcdonalds.jpg

Anyway, check the video at this link. It should change your perception of that case...

http://retroreport.org/taking-the-lid-off-the-mcdonalds-coffee-case/
I am glad there is atleast 1x other person that has read and watched that video. It REALLY opened my eyes, because until then, i had been like many other that were duped into thinking the lady was out trying to make millions off of a her mistake. Thanks!
 

dan200

#BSF200
I am glad there is atleast 1x other person that has read and watched that video. It REALLY opened my eyes, because until then, i had been like many other that were duped into thinking the lady was out trying to make millions off of a her mistake. Thanks!
I was a sheep for a long while about that deal. My pops is a lawyer and straightened me out on that one...
 

mikerd400

Well-Known Member
Well I've been watching the madness on this thread since yesterday and found it hard to ignore some of (most of them) the uniformed post. Let me start by saying that I feel really bad for all the familys of the deceased and the injured. For anybody to say "it makes me sick" or "they are a bunch of bottom feeders" or " free food line" you are very mistaken and what gives you the right to judge another person like that. I have gotten to know a couple of the parents that lost their children and let me say they are not bottom feeders and probably pay more in taxes then most of you make. So I wouldn't call them bottom feeders. I have also learned a lot about the lawsuit since getting to know these people. The facts are that MDR and BLM were extremely negligent in letting this crash happen (notice I don't use the word accident, because accidents cant be prevented, crashes can). Did you know that the 1 BLM ranger (there was supposed to be 6 or 7)was at the crash site an hour before the race started? And that same guy admitting seeing that there were no fences and the crowd was too close to the race course. Did you know that he did nothing to help with the situation? don't you think he could of got on his loud speaker and told the people they were too close to the race course and the race could not start until they move. You know what, every body would of moved so the race could start if he would of just said something. Did you know that the 1 ranger left the rock-pile and drove straight to the start line (50 minutes before start of the race) and do you know that he said NOTHING to MDR that he could not start the race until the crowd was moved back. THAT MY FRIEND IS CALLED NEGLIGENCE. and is the basis of the case. This guy had the responsibility to monitor the safety of the race and for the safety of the crowd and to make sure that ALL procedures set forthe in the permit are ALL followed.
Did you know that there was no ambulance on site as the permit required. The reason this is important is because the helicopters could not be dispatched until someone with authority was there to dispatch them. That delayed the dispatch of the helicopters by 45 minutes and that 45 minutes could of possibly saved some lives (ever heard of the golden hour).? The helicopters were running and ready to fly but couldn't until they were dispatched. Is that the spectators fault?
The federal government has immunity from lawsuits in most cases. It dates back hundreds of years ago to the King and Queen days in America. (You cant sue the King). Well this case went in front of the most conservative judge the government could find and even this judge could not rule for the government after seeing all the negligence this ranger had committed. They tried to hide behind the discretionary decision immunity law and since this ranger did NOTHING to eliminate the hazard it means he made NO decision which opened the government up to liability. MDR was found to be mainly at fault and had settled more then a year ago.
Some of you have tried to blame this on the spectators. Now you know those people just stood where everybody else was standing. If there was sufficient fencing and signage that had been done in previous years, all this would be is a simple roll over crash with nobody hurt. You cant possibly blame those deceased and injured for this crash.
Remember these people that were killed and injured are your friends and you were standing next to them at various races. They were not drunken idiots like some of you have said. They were not trying to reach out and touch the cars and trucks while they were racing. You know that.
Did you also know that the driver is suing MDR and the government? Now that is a frivolous lawsuit if I've ever seen one. If you are bashing the family's that lost their children, what about the driver that is suing MDR and Feds? Why are you not saying anything about that lawsuit? I know why, Its the PACK mentality I see on this thread and many others on this site.

I know you guys will post all kind of negative post but I really don't care because most of you are uniformed and know nothing about the case and what came out in the case. All you want to do is blast anybody for anything. Ive seen it for years on this site.

Good Luck and see you in the desert in AZ.
The fact is there was fault with the BLM, MDR, and the spectators. Rather then sue, the families of the deceased and the injured victims could have pushed for better regulations, training, improvements, etc. However, what did they sue for, MONEY. So rather than leading to something constructive for safer racing, we know where their priorities lay.
 

Tom_Willis

Well-Known Member
Did you know that there was no ambulance on site as the permit required..

The ambulance was parked (2 miles away) at the start line. Like it was at every prior MDR race. And everybody saw it.. Nobody mentioned the recording of the 911 dispatcher arguing with the CHP over jurisdiction. That actually DID waste time. Or the CHP officer who told the race promoter that SHE was in charge of the incident as well as the investigation at the scene. Unbelievable, but that really happened.
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
Well I've been watching the madness on this thread since yesterday and found it hard to ignore some of (most of them) the uniformed post. I have also learned a lot about the lawsuit since getting to know some of these people.
So your information is from a few of the victims’ families? Could this info be one sided? Are they going to possibly be bias to one side?

The facts are that MDR and BLM were extremely negligent in letting this crash happen (notice I don't use the word accident, because accidents cant be prevented, crashes can). Did you know that the 1 BLM ranger (there was supposed to be 6 or 7) was at the crash site an hour before the race started? And that same guy admitting seeing that there were no fences and the crowd was too close to the race course. Did you know that he did nothing to help with the situation? don't you think he could of got on his loud speaker and told the people they were too close to the race course and the race could not start until they move. You know what, every body would of moved so the race could start if he would of just said something.
Yes it has been stated that only 1 BLM Ranger showed up to patrol the race. I believe there were supposed to be 3-4 Rangers not 6 or 7 as you stated. It was said one was out on leave and the other called in sick. This was clearly an issue with the BLM.

Did you know there are not supposed to be any fences or barricades around the course and MDR the permit holder was not allowed to fence off any part of the desert. The snow fences you saw in the past were put up by private individuals not with the race series. (CleanDesert.org) It's not a violation if they do it as private citizens on BLM land, but the permit holder could not.

Did any of the family members tell you about the MDR staked signs telling spectator to stay back X amount of feet? Yes those signs were trampled and knocked down.

Sure people would have moved if the BLM Ranger would have got on his loud speaker, but as soon as he would have left they would have moved right back. You’re a dreamer if you think this would have stopped people from getting hurt. How is the BLM or MDR supposed to know what is going on at the 2 mile mark of the race course? You cant patrol the whole race course which is on open public land. That’s what the signs were for. Also Sloppy’s truck was not the first truck to go through the Rock Pile. Why didn’t the crowd move once the first vehicle came though?

Did you know that the 1 ranger left the rock-pile and drove straight to the start line (50 minutes before start of the race) and do you know that he said NOTHING to MDR that he could not start the race until the crowd was moved back. THAT MY FRIEND IS CALLED NEGLIGENCE. and is the basis of the case. This guy had the responsibility to monitor the safety of the race and for the safety of the crowd and to make sure that ALL procedures set for the in the permit are ALL followed.
Did you know that the head BLM Ranger assigned to the event has to meet with the permit holder prior to the event starting, thus maybe why he would have been at the start line prior to the event starting?

How do you know what the Ranger said or did not say to MDR? Where you there? What depositions have you read?

Did you know that there was no ambulance on site as the permit required. The reason this is important is because the helicopters could not be dispatched until someone with authority was there to dispatch them. That delayed the dispatch of the helicopters by 45 minutes and that 45 minutes could of possibly saved some lives (ever heard of the golden hour).? The helicopters were running and ready to fly but couldn't until they were dispatched. Is that the spectators fault?
This would be False! Please show or state where you got this info from? In fact MDR had a contract with Symon’s Ambulance as they were one of the only companies to offer 4x4 ambulances, and MDR required a 4X4 ambulance at their events. Every MDR race I had been to in the past I saw an Ambulance sitting on standby near the Start/Finish area. MDR is still listed on Symon’s website. http://symonsambulance.com/d37.html BTW MDR was one of the few small series to actually have an Ambulance on site of each race. Several series used EMT’s that worked out of pick-up trucks.

MDR was found to be mainly at fault and had settled more then a year ago.
Don’t know about this? It was clear more than a year ago MDR’s insurance was only going to cover the $1 million dollar policy.

Some of you have tried to blame this on the spectators. Now you know those people just stood where everybody else was standing. If there was sufficient fencing and signage that had been done in previous years, all this would be is a simple roll over crash with nobody hurt. You cant possibly blame those deceased and injured for this crash.
Once again there was signage, and the spectators just chose to ignore and knock them down. And once again the permit holder was not allowed to barricade or block any part of the race course. One BLM Ranger I spoke to about this prior to this “Accident” at a MDR Superstition race I was volunteering at, had said the reason for this was that fence or barricade could trap spectators between the vehicle & the barricade causing injury. Did you know that one?

Did you know that Sloppy’s race truck never left the race course? Where the trucked ended upside down after the crash, was still on the race course! If the victims would have stood behind the marked signs they would still be here today. Using the logic that everyone else was standing there so it must be OK for me too, is just dumb!

They were not drunken idiots like some of you have said.
We will see as once this case is settled we might be able to find out the toxicology reports on the victims, and find out who & how much alcohol was in their system. This was a summer night race, don’t kid yourself, people were drinking! And there is nothing wrong with that, but it will also show who might have not been using good judgment. Did you know one of the victims was riding in a friend’s truck jumping & showboating for the crowd just hours before the race?

Did you also know that the driver is suing MDR and the government? Now that is a frivolous lawsuit if I've ever seen one. If you are bashing the family's that lost their children, what about the driver that is suing MDR and Feds? Why are you not saying anything about that lawsuit?
Yes we know his mom had filed some crazy $50 million dollar suit, which I have not heard if it was dropped or not. If you go back in this thread and other threads you would see people questioning it.
 

WALSHMOTORSPORTS

Well-Known Member
The ambulance was parked (2 miles away) at the start line. Like it was at every prior MDR race. And everybody saw it.. Nobody mentioned the recording of the 911 dispatcher arguing with the CHP over jurisdiction. That actually DID waste time. Or the CHP officer who told the race promoter that SHE was in charge of the incident as well as the investigation at the scene. Unbelievable, but that really happened.
Your right. There was an ambulance right there just minutes after the accident. I know this because I helped with a tracheomoty among other tragic issues.I seen it while driving in to our pit just a 100 or so feet from the wreck/accident. Also When I had my son and wife in my truck we look all the way around where we are going to park so they can see yet far enough away so that in any event we won't be in any harms way of a "race vehicle" that is "racing" being pushed to the limit while racing that may loose control.
Whatever comes of all this its very sad to remember and the thought of a parent having to lay their child to rest at such a young age as some of them were. It is always a tough and tragic situation that I can't imagine being a Dad with a 6 year old.
 
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Gadzooks2

Well-Known Member
"That’s what the signs were for. Also Sloppy’s truck was not the first truck to go through the Rock Pile. Why didn’t the crowd move once the first vehicle came though? "

I think this is the most important fact stated on the thread. If the first car came through and crashed into the crowd the case would be completely different. However after numerous cars had passed that spot any reasonable person would have concluded that standing in the emergency lane on a freeway would be a much safer place to hang out. Laws and responsibility should come down to "reasonable expectations" and it's not reasonable to expect to be safe under the conditions that the spectators put themselves in. Tragically Children were involved and are forgiven of course, but their parents and adults, absolutely not.
 

martein

Well-Known Member
So your information is from a few of the victims’ families? Could this info be one sided? Are they going to possibly be bias to one side?


Yes it has been stated that only 1 BLM Ranger showed up to patrol the race. I believe there were supposed to be 3-4 Rangers not 6 or 7 as you stated. It was said one was out on leave and the other called in sick. This was clearly an issue with the BLM.

Did you know there are not supposed to be any fences or barricades around the course and MDR the permit holder was not allowed to fence off any part of the desert. The snow fences you saw in the past were put up by private individuals not with the race series. (CleanDesert.org) It's not a violation if they do it as private citizens on BLM land, but the permit holder could not.

Did any of the family members tell you about the MDR staked signs telling spectator to stay back X amount of feet? Yes those signs were trampled and knocked down.

Sure people would have moved if the BLM Ranger would have got on his loud speaker, but as soon as he would have left they would have moved right back. You’re a dreamer if you think this would have stopped people from getting hurt. How is the BLM or MDR supposed to know what is going on at the 2 mile mark of the race course? You cant patrol the whole race course which is on open public land. That’s what the signs were for. Also Sloppy’s truck was not the first truck to go through the Rock Pile. Why didn’t the crowd move once the first vehicle came though?


Did you know that the head BLM Ranger assigned to the event has to meet with the permit holder prior to the event starting, thus maybe why he would have been at the start line prior to the event starting?

How do you know what the Ranger said or did not say to MDR? Where you there? What depositions have you read?


This would be False! Please show or state where you got this info from? In fact MDR had a contract with Symon’s Ambulance as they were one of the only companies to offer 4x4 ambulances, and MDR required a 4X4 ambulance at their events. Every MDR race I had been to in the past I saw an Ambulance sitting on standby near the Start/Finish area. MDR is still listed on Symon’s website. http://symonsambulance.com/d37.html BTW MDR was one of the few small series to actually have an Ambulance on site of each race. Several series used EMT’s that worked out of pick-up trucks.


Don’t know about this? It was clear more than a year ago MDR’s insurance was only going to cover the $1 million dollar policy.


Once again there was signage, and the spectators just chose to ignore and knock them down. And once again the permit holder was not allowed to barricade or block any part of the race course. One BLM Ranger I spoke to about this prior to this “Accident” at a MDR Superstition race I was volunteering at, had said the reason for this was that fence or barricade could trap spectators between the vehicle & the barricade causing injury. Did you know that one?

Did you know that Sloppy’s race truck never left the race course? Where the trucked ended upside down after the crash, was still on the race course! If the victims would have stood behind the marked signs they would still be here today. Using the logic that everyone else was standing there so it must be OK for me too, is just dumb!


We will see as once this case is settled we might be able to find out the toxicology reports on the victims, and find out who & how much alcohol was in their system. This was a summer night race, don’t kid yourself, people were drinking! And there is nothing wrong with that, but it will also show who might have not been using good judgment. Did you know one of the victims was riding in a friend’s truck jumping & showboating for the crowd just hours before the race?


Yes we know his mom had filed some crazy $50 million dollar suit, which I have not heard if it was dropped or not. If you go back in this thread and other threads you would see people questioning it.
I think you just burned Bill's soap box out from under him
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Is this horse dead yet?

 
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broncobaha

Well-Known Member
I am going to be suing Robby Gordon!!

If it was not for his intentional delay in debuting this new Dakar HST Gordini. I would no longer have to stop working every 5 min to check and see if it magically appeared. I want to be reimbursed for all the money lost not working plus 10 mil!! Im pretty sure I can settle out of court.....
 

bajafox

Accepted
I am going to be suing Robby Gordon!!

If it was not for his intentional delay in debuting this new Dakar HST Gordini. I would no longer have to stop working every 5 min to check and see if it magically appeared. I want to be reimbursed for all the money lost not working plus 10 mil!! Im pretty sure I can settle out of court.....
Include me in the class action law suit for this one
 

Chris Tobin

Well-Known Member
me too
 

martein

Well-Known Member
This is for the people who continue to use the "spilling a hot cup of coffee" and suing for millions.




Now go ahead... continue beating that dead horse...
Watched the whole video and still feel exactly the same as I did before. The only thing I learned that was news is that the judge reduced the settlement to just over a half million. McDonald's still did nothing wrong. They made their coffee at the standard industry temperature for the best flavor and longest holding time. The woman was clumsy and spilled scalding hot beverage on herself and got burned. She screwed up and she is responsible for dealing with the consequences. If she was boiling water on the stove and tipped it over on herself the result would have been the same. I guess because McDonald's has deep pockets they should give her a few hundred thousand for that one too. Here is a news flash, during the cooking process food gets hot and pouring it on yourself might burn. After 79 years Stella should have figured this out.

The fact remains she is a money grubbing wench that turned her mistake into a hardship for someone else.
 
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retroblazer

Well-Known Member
None of this stuff is funny. We are dealing with issues that threaten the loss of access to public lands for purpose of off road racing. If the off road community's primary government regulator is getting sued and losing millions of dollars, we're on a death march to the sport as we know it. It doesn't appear that the racing community do much.
 

TERRARACE

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that re-arguing the facts of this case is moot. I believe that this case was NOT ajudicated in court, but settled with an arbitrator. So, what do we know. We know that MDR's liability policy was tapeed out to the max. 1 Million. Because BLM IS the deeper pocket they coughed up the balance. This is sort of what I predicted at the beginning of this fiasco. We also now know what the required liability exposure the BLM will want to be indemnified for, x 2. I'll bet all future events shall be 10-12 million per event. If I were running BLM, and on behalf of the taxpayers, it's what I would require in insurance. I'm sure Casey's statement in an earlier post is probably factual, the race fees will have to go up! Folks, when the lawsuits started flying, this was going to be the real forseen result. Good Luck to us all.
 

JPBart

Well-Known Member
Isn't that Incident Command SOP?
CHP has jurisdiction and responds to any accident that causes injury or property damage in Johnson Valley if it involves anyone not entered in a permitted event. Crash your bike into a camper on Soggy and it's CHP who will come take the report. 2 play riders run into each other on their quads and CHP is the responding agency even if a BLM ranger is a witness. BLM will help with first aid and calling EMS and CHP but the official report will come through CHP channels after they respond. CHP did have jurisdiction over this just like they would a major accident on the highway.
 
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