MDR update

sirhk100

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bighad, please don't disrespect the heros of our sport that are working their asses off to save our lands by lumping yourself in with them! It's just as disrespectful as you suing for your own stupidity. Curious... Are there any other race events that you go to and jump over the wall to stand on the course at or is it only at desert races?
 

DustJunkie

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Not even close to contradictory if you don't snip it. If you and I decide to put an apple on your head and let me shoot it. I miss and hit you in the forehead. Do I bare ANY responsibility or is it all you since you knew what you were risking?
In my analogy we share the blame by being personally responsible for our contributions to the malady. You for being dumb enough to stand there and me for being dumb enough to fire.

Like I said, plenty of blame to go around but saying MDR is blame free is ludicrous since they created the spectacle that drew the people out there. They chose the route knowing it would draw that element and fired cars off into it.

I have an example of exactly that. My buddy and I took our kids quail hunting. There were 4 boys, 10,9,8, and 7. The 10 and 9 year olds had passed hunters safety and were hunting. They got sick of chasing birds so they all went back to the truck. The boys with shotguns were told to put them away and that they could all use their BB guns. From 200 yards away I heard the muffled bang of a shotgun shell in their direction. I sprinted across the desert to find all 4 boys, scared and sitting on the tailgate of the truck. They stuck a shell in the ground and one boy pressed his BB gun to the primer and shot it. Dirt went flying, giving them a good scare. A few minutes later one of the kids was rubbing his arm, he had 3 BB welts on his arm. After some interrogating, they finally told us that he was holding a bottle in his hand and that the oldest boy was attempting to shoot it with a BB gun. He missed and hit his arm, not once or twice, but three times! Tough, dumb kid.

I was scared, pissed and relieved all at once. Some would blame me for allowing minor children to shoot BB guns and have shotgun shells unsupervised. Some would blame the BB guns and shotgun shells. Some would blame the .gov for not teaching the kids enough in hunters safety class. Some would blame the kids for doing stupid stuff.

Nobody is blameless, not one of us doesn't bare some of the responsibility. It was my responsibility to learn from my mistake and move forward.

The same goes with us in our sport, we must move forward. It sucked that it took something like this to get some promoters to act. It sucks that it took so long for the BLM and emergency services to get to the incident. It sucks that everyone knew the ramifications of their actions but still acted irresponsibly, and I mean everyone. We all knew that an accident like this was inevitable, just thought it would happen elsewhere.

Blame gets us nowhere. Action and education will get us through the next decade of desert racing.
 

green787

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So funny how we all want the fans to line the streets like in Baja, but then we blame crowd control and the authorities when there is an accident.... This is off roading.... OFF the beaten path of an enclosed race course.... We are NOT like the other racers.... There are no concrete barriers, and chain link fence.... It is the responsibility of every race car driver to protect their fans....
 

Mark Newhan

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So funny how we all want the fans to line the streets like in Baja, but then we blame crowd control and the authorities when there is an accident.... This is off roading.... OFF the beaten path of an enclosed race course.... We are NOT like the other racers.... There are no concrete barriers, and chain link fence.... It is the responsibility of every race car driver to protect their fans....

Ah... No! There was snow fencing. Somebody took it down. Perhaps that is where the first layer of blame should be directed. Common sense dictates the rest, it wasn't utilized that day. Perhaps alcohol should be looked at and maybe throughout the court process will bare that out. I'm sure that all of the people that were injured at the event had blood taken, and if I were a defendant I would pursue that single fact. I'd put money on the driver being sober...
 

jowoog

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The simple truth to the matter is that the blame belongs to all parties involved:

1)The spectators
2)MDR-as a business not solely Patricia is to blame.
3) the driver(Brett Sloppy)
And
4) the bureau of land management.

Blame cannot be placed on one single person.

As a driver before I ever got behind the wheel I was told 1 thing; when approaching a group of people/spectators you MUST slow down. They are there for 1 of 4 reasons:

1) it is a PIT area. Therefor you will encounter children, pit personnel, animals and other race vehicles exiting their pits.

2) it is an OBSTACLE that the spectators want to see a vehicle GO BIG, or get out of shape and have the possibility of an accident. Preferably a spectacular save.

3) it is a broken down vehicle with occupants/or spectators working on the vehicle. Possibly not paying full attention to the racecourse.

Or

4) it is a BOOBY TRAP and the result could be catastrophic.

In all cases the vehicle should slow down and be on high alert. Asses the situation and drive accordingly.

.

my thinking also ,...carry on
 

green787

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Ah... No! There was snow fencing. Somebody took it down. Perhaps that is where the first layer of blame should be directed. Common sense dictates the rest, it wasn't utilized that day. Perhaps alcohol should be looked at and maybe throughout the court process will bare that out. I'm sure that all of the people that were injured at the event had blood taken, and if I were a defendant I would pursue that single fact. I'd put money on the driver being sober...

Well either there was or there wasn't snow fencing.... Did someone take it down and put it away?? Or was it trampled down and left laying there for people to walk over????
To me it doesn't matter.... The lawsuit that is.... I live my life regardless of what people are saying about me in court.... But if all things were equal in a court of law, and each side was properly represented, then you might as well try it on Judge Judy's court, and I can pretty much guarantee that she would dismiss all the common sense issues and get right down to who was drinking, and vandalizing the fence.... So with that I agree with Mark....
But like in Admiralty law, you are the captain of your ship, and you can't wrecklessly guide it into a "rock" outcropping if you already know it is there.... Just ethically as a race car driver.... Not the law..... I do believe Brett's truck was on the race track, just like apparently Ivan Stewart's was in the video....
 

Mark Newhan

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Well either there was or there wasn't snow fencing.... Did someone take it down and put it away?? Or was it trampled down and left laying there for people to walk over????
To me it doesn't matter.... The lawsuit that is.... I live my life regardless of what people are saying about me in court.... But if all things were equal in a court of law, and each side was properly represented, then you might as well try it on Judge Judy's court, and I can pretty much guarantee that she would dismiss all the common sense issues and get right down to who was drinking, and vandalizing the fence.... So with that I agree with Mark....
But like in Admiralty law, you are the captain of your ship, and you can't wrecklessly guide it into a "rock" outcropping if you already know it is there.... Just ethically as a race car driver.... Not the law..... I do believe Brett's truck was on the race track, just like apparently Ivan Stewart's was in the video....

Frankh said that during his Prerun lap he stopped there and the snow fence was there with a posted warning. His post is probably back a few pages....
 

fishd00d

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There was no snow fencing this year. The 2 years previous there was. There was warning signs hammered in the ground the year this happened but by the time the race started they had been trampled over.
 

Slippery P

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jeff my boy..nice of you to chime in...its moving along..the best i could wish is to never be in one brutha! tell you what..line up the interview whereas Brett Sloppy..not slopey..but sloppy..wants to get on camera and say how he knew all those people were there..cause he did..how he lost cotrol of his truck,,,cause he did..that his race was the single most important aspect of his life..even at the cost of others lives..and how his truck ended up off the race course as you say...and he..through his decisions..killed 8 people..then get MDR to say how they knew those people were there..but they were for profit..and uh..it would cost them money to do something about it...so it was profitable to deny any obligation to their paid race teams or their spectators...and get the BLm to say how the year prior they had sheriffs out there..and yet on that night they gave a permit and failed to do their job..yet its "different' when they write tickets..because after all..its about safety..and once you line all that up..I'll say...geeze..its none of their faults..nope..its all to blame on me...Im in dude..cause as it stands..not one of them will say anything! Oh no.....as you all do...blame the dead..disrespect their families...and then..after that..we can look at the lawsuits and see who..if anyone...has a lawsuit against who! It must be nice to be on the outside looking in...unaffected yet with so much BS to talk..you sure got a lot to say to me on the net dude..yet when I asked to share time with you one on one at Ocotillo..you said..."Its a big desert"..and told me to pound sand.....go watch TV dude..your next opinion will be shared tonight...hey..did you know they are trying to take guns away from us..just saying..oh..and Jv is in danger of being lost..so is Oceano dunes..and green sticker funds are being raped for the general fund..did you know any of that? Focus on your sport..not me dude...wake up..and if you do...well..guess we'll meet then after all...I am there...

WOW....... You sir are an absolute idiot!!!!!!!
 

Mark Newhan

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Again from someone that was racing that day you are 100% correct and before the race are prerunner had a problems. Vapor locking and it died right there. It had a ribbon banner with sign's saying do not cross race in progress. If you look at at least one of the videos you can see it on the ground.

I came into that section way hot because I blew a shift on the start and just got passed the guy before the left hand turn. I slowed up because our car can't really hit that jump like trucks.

Here is the post from frankh. I stand corrected, no snow fence...
 

LRS1972

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jeff my boy..nice of you to chime in...its moving along..the best i could wish is to never be in one brutha! tell you what..line up the interview whereas Brett Sloppy..not slopey..but sloppy..wants to get on camera and say how he knew all those people were there..cause he did..how he lost cotrol of his truck,,,cause he did..that his race was the single most important aspect of his life..even at the cost of others lives..and how his truck ended up off the race course as you say...and he..through his decisions..killed 8 people..then get MDR to say how they knew those people were there..but they were for profit..and uh..it would cost them money to do something about it...so it was profitable to deny any obligation to their paid race teams or their spectators...and get the BLm to say how the year prior they had sheriffs out there..and yet on that night they gave a permit and failed to do their job..yet its "different' when they write tickets..because after all..its about safety..and once you line all that up..I'll say...geeze..its none of their faults..nope..its all to blame on me...Im in dude..cause as it stands..not one of them will say anything! Oh no.....as you all do...blame the dead..disrespect their families...and then..after that..we can look at the lawsuits and see who..if anyone...has a lawsuit against who! It must be nice to be on the outside looking in...unaffected yet with so much BS to talk..you sure got a lot to say to me on the net dude..yet when I asked to share time with you one on one at Ocotillo..you said..."Its a big desert"..and told me to pound sand.....go watch TV dude..your next opinion will be shared tonight...hey..did you know they are trying to take guns away from us..just saying..oh..and Jv is in danger of being lost..so is Oceano dunes..and green sticker funds are being raped for the general fund..did you know any of that? Focus on your sport..not me dude...wake up..and if you do...well..guess we'll meet then after all...I am there...


Your reply is exactly what I expected from you, unintelligible, rambling and nonsensical. Please drop your lawsuit against whoever it has been filed. This would be the best way for you to show your support for the off-road community. You are not suing to make things safer in the desert, you are suing because of a poor decision you made to put yourself in harms way. The first step to resolving this is personal accountability.
 

green787

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There was no snow fencing this year. The 2 years previous there was. There was warning signs hammered in the ground the year this happened but by the time the race started they had been trampled over.

Fish, I would have been standing there, within earshot of Matt Torian's crowd.... How do you think I would have faired??? Just curious....
 

down4glamis

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Fish, I would have been standing there, within earshot of Matt Torian's crowd.... How do you think I would have faired??? Just curious....

matt, luke and mike were on their way back to the otherside of the course, just above the take off point. they stopped where they were because the 1400 trucks were coming through and they wanted to watch a few before they went back up.
 

fishd00d

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Fish, I would have been standing there, within earshot of Matt Torian's crowd.... How do you think I would have faired??? Just curious....

Who knows but they knew it wasent a good spot and were on their way out when it happened.....Torian broke his leg....
 

bighad

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i know I am an idiot..an unemplyed bum..a drug addict..all those very things that over the years have been said about me and mine..which to none is accurate. Sometimes life brings us to a destination..with or without liking it. None of this has been fun for me..the injury..the lawsuits..which.does anyone know how many..and who is suing who? Exactly. I guess i am to blame for speaking up..not afraid to say some words...but i can say..none of my words have ever been crude..rude..or poorly stated at anybody..not even the kid who hit me! I think i have felt obligated to say..it is some of you who are f'ed in the head to continue to badger the dead..I like dan 200 post best..yes it was awesome to see the off road world step up and help out..which..by the way..i never asked for much of..but i did help build the memorial at slash..and i am thankful to have spent brians last weekend before he died with him..he was such a good hearted man.
 

BajaFand

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bighad, you still never answered my question.... WHY WERE YOU STANDING SO CLOSE TO THE RACE COURSE????????
 
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If people are standing on or near the traffic lanes of the 405, should one slow down, and proceed with caution, or continue at high speed?
 

Jack

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If people are standing on or near the traffic lanes of the 405, should one slow down, and proceed with caution, or continue at high speed?

If they are in a race that they paid to enter and use that piece of land for that time then they are expecting room to do what they are there for.
We do not go out for a parade.
 

DEZERTSUB

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If they are in a race that they paid to enter and use that piece of land for that time then they are expecting room to do what they are there for.
We do not go out for a parade.

Spectators do not pay a cent to spectate. Your argument is invalid.
 

Slippery P

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i know I am an idiot..an unemplyed bum..a drug addict..all those very things that over the years have been said about me and mine..which to none is accurate. Sometimes life brings us to a destination..with or without liking it. None of this has been fun for me..the injury..the lawsuits..which.does anyone know how many..and who is suing who? Exactly. I guess i am to blame for speaking up..not afraid to say some words...but i can say..none of my words have ever been crude..rude..or poorly stated at anybody..not even the kid who hit me! I think i have felt obligated to say..it is some of you who are f'ed in the head to continue to badger the dead..I like dan 200 post best..yes it was awesome to see the off road world step up and help out..which..by the way..i never asked for much of..but i did help build the memorial at slash..and i am thankful to have spent brians last weekend before he died with him..he was such a good hearted man.

I dont understand how you or anyone involved think you have the right to play the victim card and sue anybody. YOU and everyone who was standing there made that piss poor decision on your own unfortunetly the end result is the consequence you have to deal with. You know I stood that close to the race course 1 time when I was 5 years old, you know what happend? My dad beat my ass, why because YOU WILL GET RUN OVER!!!! Very simple to understand from that point on. There are harsh comments towards you do to the fact that people like myself are sick of having our privilages taken away because of people like you!
 
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